Digital legacy

[Clitheroekid]

The increasingly common situation of assets only being recorded in digital form rather than paper, and the serious problems this can cause executors has been mentioned several times on this board. I'm dealing with just such a case at the moment, where the deceased, a single man with no close family, died completely unexpectedly at the age of 52.

He appears to have left virtually no paper records at all, though he clearly had significant assets. In fact, the executor has just discovered - purely by accident - that he owned a flat, but he doesn't even know whether or by whom it's occupied.

He says he recalls the deceased telling him as they were passing through Zurich on a train journey that he had an account with Santander there, but there's no trace of either that or, indeed, any other account at present. The deceased wasn't employed, and it's not clear how he earned a living at all.

Anyway, I enjoy what Holmes would have called a `two pipe problem', and I'm looking forward to doing some detective work

But the point of the post is that Apple have now at least recognised the problem and they've launched what they call the Legacy Contact feature - https://9to5mac.com/2021/12/13/pass-iph ... -contacts/

I've not yet had a chance to look at it in any detail, but at least it appears to be a step in the right direction, and something worth considering. However, I was slightly perturbed by the suggestion that "of course, you can also include things like your Apple ID email and password, and account backup codes in a will ..."

Bearing in mind that once it's gone through probate a Will is a public document it would be pretty important to make sure all of these were deactivated before submitting the Will for probate!

[Lootman]

The increasingly common situation of assets only being recorded in digital form rather than paper, and the serious problems this can cause executors has been mentioned several times on this board.

It is the way of the world. And isn't it at least possible that people will, faced with punitive and invasive laws regarding demise, choose to go incognito and take their chances?

Bearing in mind that once it's gone through probate a Will is a public document it would be pretty important to make sure all of the destination of my assets upon my death to these were deactivated before submitting the Will for probate!

It has always disturbed me that Wills become public documents and I have given some thought as to how I might restructure my affairs upon my death to exclude such a risk. Given that currently my sole assets accrue to my wife and kids this may seem odd, but it still irks me since I consider that the destination of my assets upon my death to be nobody else's business.

[genou]

[ Given that currently my sole assets accrue to my wife and kids this may seem odd, but it still irks me since I consider that the destination of my assets upon my death to be nobody else's business.

Your ( public ) will points at a ( private ) letter of wishes. You have to trust your executor(s) of course.

[Lootman]

Given that currently my sole assets accrue to my wife and kids this may seem odd, but it still irks me since I consider that the destination of my assets upon my death to be nobody else's business.

Your ( public ) will points at a ( private ) letter of wishes. You have to trust your executor(s) of course.

Yeah, and of course you can also construct a trust to disguise your intentions.

But why should we have to jump through such hoops?

[genou]

But why should we have to jump through such hoops?

Be cheerful that the options are there. In Norway, your tax return is a public document. Views on privacy and transparency differ.

[Lootman]

But why should we have to jump through such hoops?

Be cheerful that the options are there. In Norway, your tax return is a public document. Views on privacy and transparency differ.

I would rather stick pins in my eyes than live in Scandinavia but that is a separate issue.

[AF62]

But the point of the post is that Apple have now at least recognised the problem and they've launched what they call the Legacy Contact feature - https://9to5mac.com/2021/12/13/pass-iph ... -contacts/

Google has approached the issue in a different and more automated and nuanced way- https://support.google.com/accounts/tro ... 7590?hl=en

They have introduced an ‘inactive account manager’ service (https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3036546) where *if you* decide to set it up then then if you don’t use your Google account for a period of time that *you* decide then a person *you* chose gets an email with details of how to access the parts of the Google account *you* want them to - so for example if you want them to be able to access Google Drive but not Google Mail or anything else then you can do.

In addition the person you nominate doesn’t know they have been nominated until the inactive account system is triggered, and you are presumably dead or incapacitated.

So with Apple there is the advantage that it needs Apple to intervene and isn’t an automatic process like Google, where someone might have set too short a period as the inactivity trigger and then gone a round the world cruise. But on the other hand, with the Apple approach your death contact gets to access the whole of your Apple account, but with Google’s approach they only get the parts you want them to.

[didds]

AIUI Facebook has a similar "legacy" option - not that anyone is loikely to have their bank accounts etc details stored there digitally etc I guess

[ten0rman]

re Lootman & his will privacy requirements.

May I point out what happened to us when our parents died.

We discovered, some 8 or 9 years after our parents died, that there was another man with the same name as our maternal grandfather. Subsequent to that, we discovered that they were indeed father & son. And from that we discovered that our grandparents were not married: the reason being that our grandfather was already married to the mother of his son. Which meant that our mother was technically illegitimate, but that's another story.

Obviously, this was something of a shock to us, as our mother in particular, and our parents and other relatives had never mentioned this to us, yet eventually we had irrefutable evidence that this was known about to our elders. This made us wonder if we had some step-relatives about whom we knew nothing. As a result we obtained the son's will, and contacted his executor who fortunately was still alive. He confirmed that the son was childless, hence no other step-relatives.

Now, had Lootman had his way, and wills remaining private, then we may not have been able to discover that the son was childless. (There are methods involving genealogical searching, but at that time we were not particularly au fait with them, and in any case they are not foolproof.)

I can see why Lootman requires privacy, and would agree that perhaps there needs to be some means whereby the financial aspects could be redacted, but I do think that access to a person's will is essential as a means of ascertaining information about the person's life.

Regards,

tenorman

[gryffron]

from that we discovered that our grandparents were not married: the reason being that our grandfather was already married to the mother of his son.

Wow. Imagine if grandad's will had left his assets "to be divided between his children", or even to his "wife". That would have caused chaos.

I assume the reason Wills are public is so that beneficiaries, or at least potential beneficiaries, can check that the executors aren't robbing them by just keeping it quiet. Seems quite sensible to me.

Gryff

[ten0rman]

Gryffron,

I don't recall grandad actually leaving a will. I do recall requesting three wills at the time, but only received the son's will. Given that my grandparents appeared to be relatively poor, I think it quite likely that their estate was indeed well below whatever the limits were then, hence no will.

ten0rman