General advice/tips on the steps after death

[torata]

My mother is rapidly approaching death, quicker than forseen. There's a will, and although she's kept the contents secret, it's expected that the house will pass to my sister and me. We don't know if we will be executors, or the solicitor or joint. I live overseas, my sister 4 hours drive away from my mum's place.

My father left everything to my mother, and my sister and I were not involved in any of the discussions. My father left a very 'tidy' estate, putting everything into joint names in advance of his death, so it was all very smooth.

So here are the questions, for those who have experience of going through the executor / will process
What tips and hints would you give? If you had to do it again, what pitfalls are there to be aware of?
What are the great sources of info you came across?
An example that I picked up from TLF, and actually my biggest immediate concern*, was not to inform the deceased person's bank until a time of your choosing (we have LPA access). My sister says that we must immediately. Which is better or correct?

So all tips, hints, advice, words of wisdom and warning are gratefully accepted - whether will/executor related, or even the logistical practicalities of the process after death.

Thanks

torata

*My thinking: There's enough money in the accounts to keep things ticking over with regard to the house, like bills, for at least a year. But if the accounts are locked, then for example, do the utilities or other services get cut off so we can't stay in the house as necessary, when back from overseas?

[Gersemi]

Well my immediate thought is that you should ask your mother who the executor is while you still can, so that you can ensure that they are informed in a timely manner of her passing when that happens. If you and/or your sister are executors then you need to know where her will is so that you can ensure that her wishes are carried out.

[DrFfybes]

I went through this last November....

First..

Ask about funeral arrangements, favourite song, address book so you can contact people (I had a lot of 'no longer available' nubers in mum's book). Flowers or donations, burial, cremation, where the ashes go, which funeral directors, wake location. Funeral expenses come from the Estate, but it can be easier to just pay them and keep the receeipt to claim back if the estate takes a while to settle. You'll need to pay for the flowers, our Funeral Directors paid for the wake and ceremony and billed us to settle after Probate.

This can lead on to....
Get a list of all her holdings and policies and accounts. Even if it is just a list of institutions, you will need to know wherer the money is, and it is a lot easier to do it whilst she is alive. If you can provide a complete list then it can make the process much cheaper and simpler. Hopefully al the info will be in a folder in a drawer, but check she hasn't kept old ones from closed accounts as that can waste a lot of time and effort. Try and explain that you will need this, and you want to make sure nothing is missed, rather than her thinking you cant wait to get your hands on her money.

After death there are services to tell a lot of people together, largely online (eg Govt 'tell us once' scheme). I think the death cert 'interview' is still online and by phone as it was during Covid.

Think about a mail forward with the Post Office. You can do it online. You don't want sensitive docs and claim forms sat in an empty house. Can you set up call divert on her mobile/landline?

Phone Uuilities, email the Council. Utilities/Council will suspend the accounts once informed. I don't think any required Death Certs. Council tax was free for 6 months, water free for 3(!). Others will send a final bill when you sell the property. TV licence website was difficult , but as the bank was no longer paying I just put everything from them in the bin when it arrived. Let pension providers know, and it can help to wait a couple of days before calling the bank , mum died on Sun 31st and a LOT of transactions went through on the Monday.

Remove valuables, tell the house insurers. Tell car insurers, some leave the policy running so you can drive it third party on your policy.

Death Certs, they're pretty cheap, get as many as there are institutions you know about. Some require originals, others have online systems which you upload scans to.

Once you've seen the Will you can decide how to do Probate, whether the solicitors will be good value, whether to DIY or go through a 'form-filling firm'.

Probably other stuff I've forgotten about.

Note pretty much every institution you deal with will do things differently, even different depts in the same institution. I suspect this is why solicitors charge so much for Probate

Paul

[Lootman]

An example that I picked up from TLF, and actually my biggest immediate concern*, was not to inform the deceased person's bank until a time of your choosing (we have LPA access). My sister says that we must immediately. Which is better or correct?

Regardless of when you notify the bank of the death of their account holder, the LPA should not be used after the point of death, since it would no longer be valid. Doubly so if you and your sister are the ones holding the LPA but are not an executor, since it is the executor who has power over assets from the point of death until probate is completed.

That said, it can be prudent to be circumspect about exactly when after the death you inform the bank. In my experience banks can be very zealous when a death is reported, and immediately freeze the account. This might be annoying if there were credits due on the account, or debits that still should be paid out. Examples might be ongoing utility and insurance payments on her house for instance, as you note. Or she might be due a future pension payout that covers a backdated time period.

So I would keep the account open as a going concern, by not rushing to inform the bank until things are more settled. Just don't try and use the LPA after death, as that might come back to bite you depending on what exactly you did with it.

The requirement to notify third parties about a death is usually phrased that it should be done "as soon as reasonably possible". So there is some wiggle room there. Institutions understand that the next of kin have a lot on their minds at such times.

[Dod101]

Well my immediate thought is that you should ask your mother who the executor is while you still can, so that you can ensure that they are informed in a timely manner of her passing when that happens. If you and/or your sister are executors then you need to know where her will is so that you can ensure that her wishes are carried out.

First as you will know the LPA is invalidated by her death, so that it becomes irrelevant. I do not think you must tell the bank immediately on death but I personally cannot see the point in not doing so. Technically you cannot operate the account after the death and if you tell the bank immediately, the balances will be transferred to the Executry account and you just pay utility bills and so on from that account.

Other than that, the excecutor has the job of ingathering the assets and if the death occurs in England the executor applies for probate. In Scotland it is called Confirmation but has the same effect.

meanwhile however, you will go through the much more immediate matters such as the funeral and a grieving process. The rest can wait and I wish you and your sister well when that happens.

I see Lootman has responded just before me and hopefully his response will also help you.

Dod

[terminal7]

Lots of good advice above. Just one thing I would add from fairly recent experience - most services etc have a bereavement dept that cuts out the inordinate waits on phone queues.

T7

[pje16]

When my mum passed almost 5 years ago
I handled the probate process for on behalf of my Dad, who was executor

HSBC offered a free excecutor bank account to handle the money
and were very helpful
https://www.hsbc.co.uk/help/life-events ... eone-dies/
Also https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/organi ... ll-us-once
is useful for notfiying most government organisations in one go.

PS Deaths certificates were £4 then they are now £11 and you will need several

[Dod101]

When my mum passed almost 5 years ago
I handled the probate process for on behalf of my Dad, who was executor

HSBC offered a free excecutor bank account to handle the money
and were very helpful
https://www.hsbc.co.uk/help/life-events ... eone-dies/
Also https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/organi ... ll-us-once
is useful for notfiying most government organisations in one go.

PS Deaths certificates were £4 then they are now £11 and you will need several

Or you can certified copies if signed by a Notary Public.

Dod

[pje16]

aren't their charges likely be more than £11

[gryffron]

My water company made no charge on an unoccupied property - unlimited I think. They don't even turn it off so you can use it for maintenance etc.

A really useful idea if you can persuade mum to do it, is to run her everyday household bills through a joint current account. Probably with sister if she's in the UK. A joint account won't be stopped upon death like an LPA or personal account will, it just reverts to the joint holder, so all those household DDs can just keep flowing and the joint holder will have full control and access immediately.

Gryff

[Dod101]

aren't their charges likely be more than £11

If this is in response to my comment, I did that but then I was using solicitors to handle the estate and it was simply incidental to the main event as it were. I may say I had to do a rather complicated Deed of Variation to the Will at the same time. So as a stand alone it may not be economical but might be worth thinking about.

Dod

[Lootman]

A really useful idea if you can persuade mum to do it, is to run her everyday household bills through a joint current account. Probably with sister if she's in the UK. A joint account won't be stopped upon death like an LPA or personal account will, it just reverts to the joint holder, so all those household DDs can just keep flowing and the joint holder will have full control and access immediately.

With a LPA you could convert the account to a joint account without getting your mother's agreement. You might not want to do it that way but you would have the authority to do so.

For that matter you have the authority to close the mother's account (whilst she is alive) altogether and transfer the funds to an account in your name. Then upon death you would not even have to notify the bank at all since the mother's account would no longer exist.

In both cases you may later have to demonstrate that you took these actions in the best interests of your mother.

[DrFfybes]

A really useful idea if you can persuade mum to do it, is to run her everyday household bills through a joint current account. Probably with sister if she's in the UK. A joint account won't be stopped upon death like an LPA or personal account will, it just reverts to the joint holder, so all those household DDs can just keep flowing and the joint holder will have full control and access immediately.

Gryff

I think this is a bad idea. If you mum is £4k in debit with her gas bill then they might try and take it. You asi need to keep track of who has put what in and taken what out. Far simpler to just to tell the utilites of the death so the account is suspended, and sort it all out when the property is sold or probate granted and get one bill to be paid from the Estate. Just this morning BG sent me the final bill telling me I (or rather mum) was £83 in credit from her previous supplier. I'm hoping they will send a cheque.

My water company made no charge on an unoccupied property - unlimited I think. They don't even turn it off so you can use it for maintenance etc.

Exactly, the services all continue, you just don't pay for them until it is all sorted out.

Paul.

[Gerry557]

In addition to most of the above. Try and get any online passwords or get her to put them somewhere safe. Death file in the paperwork cabinet etc

Think before using the tell us once service for the car. They stop the car tax immediately so you might get stopped by the police. So do that individually when you have sold the car or when the tax transfers because of your choice.

Joint names for the bank is a good idea. It takes months to get access to funds waiting for grant of probate if not.

[Lootman]

In addition to most of the above. Try and get any online passwords or get her to put them somewhere safe. Death file in the paperwork cabinet etc

Think before using the tell us once service for the car. They stop the car tax immediately so you might get stopped by the police. So do that individually when you have sold the car or when the tax transfers because of your choice.

Yes, the "tell us once" deal exists to help institutions and not the family of the deceased. (Which one can say about the entire probate system). Far better to inform third parties on a case-by-case schedule that reflects the specific situation with each counterparty. Some you might want to accelerate (creditors) and some you might want to defer (debtors).

Joint names for the bank is a good idea. It takes months to get access to funds waiting for grant of probate if not.

I am a big believer in avoiding probate if at all possible. It saves money, time, effort, frustration and risk.

If as an executor and/or beneficiary, I can get the assets in my hands without probate then I always will. The rest can be sorted out later - possession is nine points of the law, as someone apparently once said.

[Dod101]

In addition to most of the above. Try and get any online passwords or get her to put them somewhere safe. Death file in the paperwork cabinet etc

Think before using the tell us once service for the car. They stop the car tax immediately so you might get stopped by the police. So do that individually when you have sold the car or when the tax transfers because of your choice.

Joint names for the bank is a good idea. It takes months to get access to funds waiting for grant of probate if not.

I would agree about the car insurance although I am not sure if the policyholder’s death may invalidate the insurance anyway. As for bank accounts. I think it depends on what the balances are. I got my late wife’s transferred almost on the spot so it does not always take months.
Dod

[UncleEbenezer]

I am a big believer in avoiding probate if at all possible. It saves money, time, effort, frustration and risk.

Interesting. You've just brought home to me that I don't know what probate is: I thought it was just a required step in the red tape granting you permission to execute the terms of the will, unlocking assets that would otherwise be frozen.

With a surviving parent a little older than the Queen, I'm watching this thread with interest.

[Lootman]

I am a big believer in avoiding probate if at all possible. It saves money, time, effort, frustration and risk.

Interesting. You've just brought home to me that I don't know what probate is: I thought it was just a required step in the red tape granting you permission to execute the terms of the will, unlocking assets that would otherwise be frozen.

With a surviving parent a little older than the Queen, I'm watching this thread with interest.

The following is a very personal view of what probate is.

Probate ultimately exists not to help the immediate family and next of kin of the deceased. It is a government-mandated process designed to help the creditors of the deceased, most obviously the taxman.

The sting in the tail with probate is that third party institutions will not release assets without presentation of the grant of probate - something that will take you months even in a simple case.

So if you are a NOK, executor and beneficiary of an estate, then it is hugely in your interests to avoid probate. Not because you are cheating and fiddling. But because it is a right royal pain in the buttside.

[pje16]

I am a big believer in avoiding probate if at all possible. It saves money, time, effort, frustration and risk.

Agreed BUT
You don't always have a choice
https://helpandadvice.co.uk/when-is-probate-required/

Do you always need probate?
No. If the financial value of the estate is low, or the property and assets were jointly owned, you may not need probate.

However, if there is a contentious probate, then you may find that you need to go through a process.
How much does an estate have to be worth to go to probate?

Unfortunately, there’s no simple answer to this question as the amount required for an estate to go through probate can vary depending on a number of factors. However, as a general rule of thumb, if an estate is worth more than £5,000 then it will likely need to go through probate.

[Lootman]

I am a big believer in avoiding probate if at all possible. It saves money, time, effort, frustration and risk.

Agreed BUT
You don't always have a choice
https://helpandadvice.co.uk/when-is-probate-required/

Do you always need probate?
No. If the financial value of the estate is low, or the property and assets were jointly owned, you may not need probate.

However, if there is a contentious probate, then you may find that you need to go through a process.
How much does an estate have to be worth to go to probate?

Unfortunately, there’s no simple answer to this question as the amount required for an estate to go through probate can vary depending on a number of factors. However, as a general rule of thumb, if an estate is worth more than £5,000 then it will likely need to go through probate.

I know but it only takes one ornery custodian to refuse release of funds and then you have to deal with probate.

Imagine instead a world where you already have the assets and it is them who have to jump through hoops rather than you.