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Ownership of estate after death

including wills and probate
UnclePhilip
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Ownership of estate after death

#498610

Postby UnclePhilip » May 5th, 2022, 11:11 am

I've just been dealing with a right of pre-emption which our charity has over a leasehold flat. I was concerned that the lease stated that the leaseholder couldn't sell, assign, transfer etc etc the lease " without us having right to buy. But it says "by any instrument except a will". I asked our solicitor who said we were OK as it vested in the executor who then became subject to the pre-emption obligation.

This isn't a contentious issue, and all parties are agreed.

However, it set me thinking. Remembering some old judgment along the lines of "everything is owned by someone"; when I die, is it so that the executor has legal title to my estate? If so does this occur at my last breath? Or probate? But probate isn't always necessary. Or does someone else own it? Crown? Attorney? Or, is it in some custodial limbo?

The true answer would be most welcome!

Uncle

GoSeigen
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Re: Ownership of estate after death

#498637

Postby GoSeigen » May 5th, 2022, 12:59 pm

UnclePhilip wrote:I've just been dealing with a right of pre-emption which our charity has over a leasehold flat. I was concerned that the lease stated that the leaseholder couldn't sell, assign, transfer etc etc the lease " without us having right to buy. But it says "by any instrument except a will". I asked our solicitor who said we were OK as it vested in the executor who then became subject to the pre-emption obligation.

This isn't a contentious issue, and all parties are agreed.

However, it set me thinking. Remembering some old judgment along the lines of "everything is owned by someone"; when I die, is it so that the executor has legal title to my estate? If so does this occur at my last breath? Or probate? But probate isn't always necessary. Or does someone else own it? Crown? Attorney? Or, is it in some custodial limbo?

The true answer would be most welcome!

Uncle


I would have thought it is immediately upon your death held in trust for your beneficiaries with the administrator(s) as trustees. So the owner will be the trust. When the administrators have been appointed (at probate or otherwise) they may start dealing with the assets as trustees and then transfer ownership to the various beneficiaries.

No doubt a proper legal mind will be able to polish/correct this explanation.

GS

Clitheroekid
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Re: Ownership of estate after death

#499533

Postby Clitheroekid » May 9th, 2022, 9:44 pm

GoSeigen wrote:
UnclePhilip wrote:I've just been dealing with a right of pre-emption which our charity has over a leasehold flat. I was concerned that the lease stated that the leaseholder couldn't sell, assign, transfer etc etc the lease " without us having right to buy. But it says "by any instrument except a will". I asked our solicitor who said we were OK as it vested in the executor who then became subject to the pre-emption obligation.

This isn't a contentious issue, and all parties are agreed.

However, it set me thinking. Remembering some old judgment along the lines of "everything is owned by someone"; when I die, is it so that the executor has legal title to my estate? If so does this occur at my last breath? Or probate? But probate isn't always necessary. Or does someone else own it? Crown? Attorney? Or, is it in some custodial limbo?

The true answer would be most welcome!

Uncle


I would have thought it is immediately upon your death held in trust for your beneficiaries with the administrator(s) as trustees. So the owner will be the trust. When the administrators have been appointed (at probate or otherwise) they may start dealing with the assets as trustees and then transfer ownership to the various beneficiaries.

There's a lot of confusion about the terminology used in the administration of estates.

The general term for a person who administers someone's estate is a `personal representative'.

Where someone dies with a Will, the personal representative is the executor appointed by the Will. The court's confirmation of the executor's authority is called a Grant of Probate.

Where someone dies without a Will, the personal representative is the administrator appointed by the court. The court's confirmation of the administrator's authority is called a Grant of Letters of Administration.

If there's a Will then title to the deceased's property (apart from joint property, which passes to the surviving joint owner) vests immediately in his executor, though he holds it on trust for the beneficiaries of the Will.

If there's no Will then by virtue of by virtue of section 14 Law of Property (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1994 title to the property vests in a Government department called the Public Trustee. The PT holds it in trust for the beneficiaries, whose identity is determined by the Intestacy Rules.


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