Anonymous letter

[brightncheerful]

Mrs Bnc and I have received an anonymous letter - a domestic issue, subject our puppy.

We suspect we know who the writer is. I would think the writer is unaware that an anonymous letter is a Malicious Communication which is a criminal offence. I don't want to report the letter to the police but I should like to try and find out who it is rom by having the letter checked for fingerprints. Obviously we'd have to have our fingerprints taken to eliminate from our enquiries but (Q1) dak please whether possible (and if so where) to get fingerprints checked privately so that the print(s) itself can be given to the police for the police to check check?

Q2. In the letter the writer mentions reluctance to report the matter to the police and council but if they were to go to the police could we counter-claim any complaint by asking the police to investigate as a malicious communication, or Q3 would the police ignore that and just focus on us.

In the meantime we are acting on the writer's concerns, partly by changes in our relationship with puppy (for example not talking to puppy when she is in the garden or within earshot of the suspected perpetrator) and by blanking off any contact with our suspect.

[mc2fool]

Mrs Bnc and I have received an anonymous letter - a domestic issue, subject our puppy.

We suspect we know who the writer is. I would think the writer is unaware that an anonymous letter is a Malicious Communication which is a criminal offence.

Well I was unaware of that too, and I can't find anything to support it nor see any mention of such in the Act* itself. Do you have a link to a source that says that an anonymous letter is a Malicious Communication solely by virtue of being anonymous?

* https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/27

On fingerprinting: no first hand experience myself but a quick google reveals lots of services: https://www.google.com/search?q=private+fingerprinting+services

If this is all about noise, then the police would refer the complainant to the Environmental Health team at your local council, and you may want to get ahead of the game and contact them yourself and see what they advise. Start here: https://www.gov.uk/report-noise-pollution-to-council

[pje16]

On fingerprinting: no first hand experience myself but a quick google reveals lots of services: https://www.google.com/search?q=private+fingerprinting+services

Scary how many there are - where are my gloves
@BNC
It seems to be a shame that you and whoever it is, especially if next door aren't on speaking terms
that doesn't bode well for the long term future

[didds]

straight query...

If you have the letter [privately fingerprinted, and remove your fingerprints such that you have a fingerprint to trace... how would you then match that to anybody?

[pje16]

The OP said eliminate, not remove

[didds]

same thing.

OP ends up with a fingerprint that is not theirs from their house.

that leaves fingerprint(s) from most probably the letter writer.

how will those fingerprints then be matched to anybody ?

Maybe Im just missing something (as is usual )

didds

[XFool]

same thing.

OP ends up with a fingerprint that is not theirs from their house.

that leaves fingerprint(s) from most probably the letter writer.

how will those fingerprints then be matched to anybody ?

Maybe Im just missing something (as is usual )

Possibly relations were a lot less frosty in the immediate past? Christmas/Birthday cards; holiday post cards etc.

[pje16]

same thing.

OP ends up with a fingerprint that is not theirs from their house.

that leaves fingerprint(s) from most probably the letter writer.

how will those fingerprints then be matched to anybody ?

Maybe Im just missing something (as is usual )

didds

My understanding,
remove = wipe off
eliminate = exclude from the fingerprint results found

There is a database of fingerprints
https://www.gov.uk/biometric-data-records

Why it gets wiped after 5 years (if that is the case) is beyond me

[didds]

That link seems to be about person X investigating etc their own prints that are kept. Not a way for person Y to ascertain/check person X's fingerprints against anything Y is holding eg the OP's letter?

which brings us back to the OP having identified a set of prints potentially of the letter writer, how does that help them ID who wrote it ? ie how to get a match for that print ?


didds

[CliffEdge]

Why don't you just ask the suspect if they sent it?

[bungeejumper]

On a scale of one to ten, how nasty or police-worthy would you say this letter was? I'm asking because some people will fire off a verbal or written fusillade and then back off a bit. Which, if correct, would be your cue to respond in a conciliatory way.

You've already said that you're making changes with the puppy in the garden, which is a good start I suppose. Any chance you could just pop a nice card through the neighbouring letterboxes, acknowledging the possible nuisance and saying what you're doing about it?

I once caused serious annoyance to a woman in an adjoining street where I'd parked my car. She lost a night's sleep because its alarm went off every time a taxi drove past - car alarms could be cab-radio-sensitive in those days. Just to make it more interesting, there was a taxi firm at the end of the road.

But rather than throwing a brick through my windscreen, she'd stuck a (justifiably!) strongly worded note under my windscreen wiper. I bought her some flowers to deliver alongside my personal apology. She was properly gobsmacked. We were good friends from then on.

BJ

[pje16]

I once caused serious annoyance to a woman in an adjoining street where I'd parked my car. She lost a night's sleep because its alarm went off every time a taxi drove past - car alarms could be cab-radio-sensitive in those days. Just to make it more interesting, there was a taxi firm at the end of the road.
BJ

That happened to me many years ago
I had parked, lets say not the best areas and walked to the tube station and went off to work
The car alarm must have gone off quite a bit
I came back to a note on my windscreen that said
"if this happens again, you are dead meat"
Needless to say I turned the sensitivity right down after that !

[Itsallaguess]

On a scale of one to ten, how nasty or police-worthy would you say this letter was?

Won't that be up to the jury to decide?

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[bungeejumper]

On a scale of one to ten, how nasty or police-worthy would you say this letter was?

Won't that be up to the jury to decide?

I can't imagine things getting to that point. And anyway, it would presumably be a magistrates' court matter at most? I was more interested to hear the OP's take on the implied level of threat in the letter.

We can never really know what's going on in our neighbours' homes. Night shift workers, people having nervous breakdowns, people with uncontrollable kids, people grieving, people struggling to cope. Might not be relevant to the OP's situation at all, of course, but always a question worth pondering before adopting a deerstalker hat and a magnifying glass.

BJ

[chas49]

Mrs Bnc and I have received an anonymous letter - a domestic issue, subject our puppy.

We suspect we know who the writer is. I would think the writer is unaware that an anonymous letter is a Malicious Communication which is a criminal offence.

Well I was unaware of that too, and I can't find anything to support it nor see any mention of such in the Act* itself. Do you have a link to a source that says that an anonymous letter is a Malicious Communication solely by virtue of being anonymous?

* https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/27

I agree with mc2fool. The offence in section1 of the Malicious Communications Act 1988 says:

1Offence of sending letters etc. with intent to cause distress or anxiety.
(1)Any person who sends to another person—
(a)a letter, electronic communication or article of any description which conveys—
(i)a message which is indecent or grossly offensive;
(ii)a threat; or
(iii)information which is false and known or believed to be false by the sender; or
(b)any article or electronic communication which is, in whole or part, of an indecent or grossly offensive nature,is guilty of an offence if his purpose, or one of his purposes, in sending it is that it should, so far as falling within paragraph (a) or (b) above, cause distress or anxiety to the recipient or to any other person to whom he intends that it or its contents or nature should be communicated.

There's no mention of anonymity constituting an offence.

Without going into detail, can the OP say whether he believes the letter satisfies the conditions listed here?

[UncleEbenezer]

I once caused serious annoyance to a woman in an adjoining street where I'd parked my car. She lost a night's sleep because its alarm went off every time a taxi drove past - car alarms could be cab-radio-sensitive in those days. Just to make it more interesting, there was a taxi firm at the end of the road.

Car alarms are a menace. One place I lived a van parked just down the road, with an alarm that went off any time it rained, or a lorry went past causing vibration.

It was annoying, but a blessed relief after my previous address, with the neighbours from hell.

[brightncheerful]

Mrs Bnc and I have received an anonymous letter - a domestic issue, subject our puppy.

We suspect we know who the writer is. I would think the writer is unaware that an anonymous letter is a Malicious Communication which is a criminal offence.

Well I was unaware of that too, and I can't find anything to support it nor see any mention of such in the Act* itself. Do you have a link to a source that says that an anonymous letter is a Malicious Communication solely by virtue of being anonymous?
[/url]

https://west-midlands.police.uk/your-op ... unications

also comment re anonymity under '"The Problem" on https://www.aberystwyth.gov.uk/en/council/policies/36-anonymous-communications

" Quite often mail that is anonymous is also malicious in its content and the reason that the writer chooses not to put an address on the communication is to protect them from any legal recriminations that may result is spreading rumour, innuendo and lies.

It amounts to bullying and is seen in the eyes of the law as assault.

It also amounts to harassment which is contrary to the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

The sending of such mail is illegal."

[mc2fool]

Mrs Bnc and I have received an anonymous letter - a domestic issue, subject our puppy.

We suspect we know who the writer is. I would think the writer is unaware that an anonymous letter is a Malicious Communication which is a criminal offence.

Well I was unaware of that too, and I can't find anything to support it nor see any mention of such in the Act* itself. Do you have a link to a source that says that an anonymous letter is a Malicious Communication solely by virtue of being anonymous?
[/url]

https://west-midlands.police.uk/your-op ... unications

Sorry if I'm missing it but I don't see anything on that page that says that an anonymous letter is a Malicious Communication solely by virtue of being anonymous. Indeed, I can't find the word "anonymous" on it at all. If that info is there by selecting one or more of the "cards" and clicking "See My Options" perhaps you could tell us which so we can all see it 'cos, as I say, the Act itself doesn't appear to support the assertion.

[mc2fool]

also comment re anonymity under '"The Problem" on https://www.aberystwyth.gov.uk/en/council/policies/36-anonymous-communications

" Quite often mail that is anonymous is also malicious in its content and the reason that the writer chooses not to put an address on the communication is to protect them from any legal recriminations that may result is spreading rumour, innuendo and lies.

It amounts to bullying and is seen in the eyes of the law as assault.

It also amounts to harassment which is contrary to the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

The sending of such mail is illegal."

Ok, I see you've added the section above since I first replied to that post.

The vital word is "also": "Quite often mail that is anonymous is also malicious in its content". It does not say that just being anonymous in itself makes it a malicious communication. For that it must fulfil one of the conditions under section 1 of the Act.

But look, the West Midlands Police page you linked to has a "Live Chat" facility, so why don't you just ask them? Better than you spending money on fingerprinting only to then have the cops do you for wasting police time.

You should also note that whereas section 1(1)(a)(ii) of the Act makes (1) Any person who sends to another person (a) a letter, electronic communication or article of any description which conveys (ii) a threat, potentially guilty of an offence, section 1(2) says (2) A person is not guilty of an offence by virtue of subsection (1)(a)(ii) above if he shows— (a) that the threat was used to reinforce a demand made by him on reasonable grounds; and (b) that he believed, and had reasonable grounds for believing, that the use of the threat was a proper means of reinforcing the demand.

So if the "threat" in the letter is just along the lines of "if your dog doesn't shut up I'll report you to the police/council" it won't count as a Malicious Communication.

[brightncheerful]

So if the "threat" in the letter is just along the lines of "if your dog doesn't shut up I'll report you to the police/council" it won't count as a Malicious Communication.

The "threat'' is not aimed at the dog but the writer's perception of the method I've been using when talking to the dog in my self-defence of the dog biting and persisting in biting me. Also to a. lesser extent similarly by Mrs Bnc. Assuming the letter writer is whom we suspect, their concern is that our dog would be suffering distress and confusion. Given that the writer does not have the same breed of dog, also that our dog is a "lockdown puppy" - a phrase which amongst owners needs no explanation - whereas the letter writer got their two puppies more recently, I have heard someone in the writer's family tell their puppy to 'shut up' which is something we/I would never say to our dog, I think the writer is hypocritical and demanding an entitlement to poke their nose into our business.

For estimated 99% of the time, our puppy is quiet and only barks at external disturbances including cats on the other side of garden fence, pigeons and other birds that risk flying into our garden, and the sound of the letter' writer's puppies in their garden. And just occasionally, when puppy needs to let off steam for whatever reason, puppy will nip Mrs Bnc's legs and mine and grab our clothing and not let go despite our attempts to get puppy to stop, including sometimes my having to shout. The bulk of the 'noise' is unfortunately in the garden and near the back door so we have now introduced a no-talking zone in those areas: Mrs Bnc and I no talking to each other or the dog. But because the writer has their back door open for much of the time inevitably sound can carry from our house to theirs, For that we have also solved part of the problem by recently having had noise minimising glass fitted in our windows, later this year we shall be have the same installation in the remaining part, thereby rendering our home almost sound-proof.

Another complainant, whom we suspect was the neighbour opposite, did the decent thing (albeit anonymously) and complained to the council which sent us a warning letter. I wrote to the council to apologise and explain the circumstances. A couple of weeks later I apologised to the neighbour opposite, who also have a dog, and whilst the apology was politely received (the neighbour acknowledging it is difficult) they've not spoken to us since. As another resident nearby said we're not missing much. (Indeed, i haven't missed not having casual conversation with them.) And hopefully the opposite persons are now appeased because of the noise minimising effect of our new windows.

Our dog is not the only one around here that barks. Regular barking can be heard from at least 3 other dogs in proximity. I think the anonymous letter writer more concerned at my and Mrs Bnc shouting at our dog (which as i've said, I've now stopped doing) than anything else through not knowing why I have been shouting, perhaps assuming shouting for the sake of it (which I have never done); Mrs Bnc however can sometimes be heard to emit a high-pitched scream as she tries to dissuade dog from biting her. usually only a consequence of my restraining the dog and calming it does the dog let go and calm.

Every dog is different. Long ago i had two border terriers, one of whom i looked after for some 7 years until she died. In all that time I never shouted at her and she only bit me once and then only just enough to let me know i wasn't wanted. Whereas with this puppy, different breed and temperament, biting has been in puppy's character since we first saw puppy at the breeder and observed puppy nipping at the breeder's ankles.