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False motor accident accusation

including wills and probate
AF62
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Re: False motor accident accusation

#518659

Postby AF62 » July 31st, 2022, 9:22 pm

DrFfybes wrote:
Lootman wrote:I hadn't really heard of this cloning thing before. What is the point of it given that the cloner has to go to a lot of trouble to discover all the details of the OP's vehicle. And presumably that cloner would not be able to register, tax or insure the vehicle. So what are they up to? Where is the profit?


Firstly, cloning is little trouble. Go on Autotrader to find the same make and colour, then go online and order a set of plates. 10 mins and £20. The cloner doesn't need to tax, MOT, or insure the vehicles, because the legitimate owner of the original will have done all that, so as far as the ANPR is concerned the car is legit. The cloner will also not have to bother paying any parking/speed camera fines. The clone could also be stolen.

It is probably quite rare that the cloner will bother to change the VIN and body stamps to match another car - that is 'ringing' and is generally done to higher value stolen vehicles.

Paul


And all sorts of people seem to get up to it - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... t-58288290

Mike4
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Re: False motor accident accusation

#518670

Postby Mike4 » July 31st, 2022, 10:32 pm

Lootman wrote:I hadn't really heard of this cloning thing before. What is the point of it given that the cloner has to go to a lot of trouble to discover all the details of the OP's vehicle. And presumably that cloner would not be able to register, tax or insure the vehicle. So what are they up to? Where is the profit?


Option A) Spend £1k a year taxing and insuring your vehicle.
Option B) Spend an hour finding a car like yours and £20 on a pair of plates the same, then drive around at their risk.

Hmmmmm.......

DrFfybes
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Re: False motor accident accusation

#518710

Postby DrFfybes » August 1st, 2022, 9:01 am

AF62 wrote:
And all sorts of people seem to get up to it - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... t-58288290


I can't blame him - if I had 2 VW Passats I'd probably try and hide the fact as well.

Paul

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#518734

Postby redsturgeon » August 1st, 2022, 10:45 am

AF62 wrote:
DrFfybes wrote:
Lootman wrote:I hadn't really heard of this cloning thing before. What is the point of it given that the cloner has to go to a lot of trouble to discover all the details of the OP's vehicle. And presumably that cloner would not be able to register, tax or insure the vehicle. So what are they up to? Where is the profit?


Firstly, cloning is little trouble. Go on Autotrader to find the same make and colour, then go online and order a set of plates. 10 mins and £20. The cloner doesn't need to tax, MOT, or insure the vehicles, because the legitimate owner of the original will have done all that, so as far as the ANPR is concerned the car is legit. The cloner will also not have to bother paying any parking/speed camera fines. The clone could also be stolen.

It is probably quite rare that the cloner will bother to change the VIN and body stamps to match another car - that is 'ringing' and is generally done to higher value stolen vehicles.

Paul


And all sorts of people seem to get up to it - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... t-58288290


What an idiot, two different colour Passats! If both the same colour the photograph would have shown nothing.

John

UncleEbenezer
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Re: False motor accident accusation

#518742

Postby UncleEbenezer » August 1st, 2022, 11:29 am

redsturgeon wrote:What an idiot, two different colour Passats! If both the same colour the photograph would have shown nothing.

John

What, one blue and white, t'other black and gold?

didds
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Re: False motor accident accusation

#518759

Postby didds » August 1st, 2022, 12:11 pm

MaraMan wrote:Yes the car was on our drive all day.



a thought albeit not a legal one.

have any of your neighbours dashcams that may show your car parked on your drive as they drive past (neighbours opposite may be perfect here!)

didds

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#518761

Postby didds » August 1st, 2022, 12:13 pm

Lootman wrote:And presumably that cloner would not be able to register, tax or insure the vehicle. So what are they up to? Where is the profit?


I would suggest that is exactly the point of cloning.

didds

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#518785

Postby MaraMan » August 1st, 2022, 1:50 pm

didds wrote:
MaraMan wrote:Yes the car was on our drive all day.



a thought albeit not a legal one.

have any of your neighbours dashcams that may show your car parked on your drive as they drive past (neighbours opposite may be perfect here!)

didds


Unfortunately not, even a neighbour whose video doorbell thing should have shown the car was not working as the batteries were flat or something. We do have neighbours who can confirm we were around all day. Hopefully that will help.

MaraMan
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Re: False motor accident accusation

#518786

Postby MaraMan » August 1st, 2022, 1:52 pm

If anyone is worried about this, as indeed I now am, it seems that private number plates are less likely to be cloned. I know that they can look a bit naff but they might save you a lot of time, trouble and even money.

MM
Last edited by MaraMan on August 1st, 2022, 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pje16
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Re: False motor accident accusation

#518787

Postby pje16 » August 1st, 2022, 1:53 pm

Which car do you have
is it new enough to have telemetry services installed
https://www.incartelematics.com/faq-ite ... elematics/

MaraMan
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Re: False motor accident accusation

#518789

Postby MaraMan » August 1st, 2022, 1:54 pm

Its a 2020 Toyota so may well have this info available on board, I will check it out if I have to.

Thanks

MM

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#518794

Postby MaraMan » August 1st, 2022, 2:01 pm

bungeejumper wrote:Two thoughts. First, does the OP's car have any distinguishing features that would counter the evidence from a CCTV camera? Unfortunately, a competent cloner will probably get the colour right, because it's there on the DVLA records, but any small things might help. Windscreen badges, maybe even the choice of alloy wheels?

Secondly, this is one of those innumerable occasions when having a dashcam might have helped? Mine has a memory equivalent to five full days' driving, with every second of my car's driving record date-stamped for later reference. Every time a cyclist does something suicidal in front of me, I bless the day I bought it. :)

BJ



Sorry, I didn't respond to this at the time. It's a standard car but does have some unusual stickers in the front window which I am hoping will show up on any ANPR record, or in fact not show up on a clone.

We do have a dashcam, however as the car wasn't used that day there was nothing recorded, so all I can show is a gap in the recordings. The record could have easily been deleted, however I have kept all the recordings to show the police if it's required.

Thanks

MM

PS - We have had a dashcam for a couple of years, since the time some a**ehole tried to brake test me in the fast lane of a dual carriageway and then run me off the road. I was very shaken up by the incident and realised I had no evidence if he had been successful. I recommend everyone has a dashcam fitted.

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#519296

Postby Clitheroekid » August 2nd, 2022, 8:29 pm

AF62 wrote:And all sorts of people seem to get up to it - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... t-58288290

Good to see that he got nicked - though from reading the rest of the article it seems that this was just the tip of the iceberg - https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scot ... s-26564757

I seem to come across stories of corruption in Scottish government quite regularly. Is corruption really more of an issue in Scotland than it is here, or is it just my imagination?

DrFfybes
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Re: False motor accident accusation

#519383

Postby DrFfybes » August 3rd, 2022, 9:37 am

Clitheroekid wrote:I seem to come across stories of corruption in Scottish government quite regularly. Is corruption really more of an issue in Scotland than it is here, or is it just my imagination?


Depends where "here" is :)

Obviously you're not in Wales, or North Shropshire, or, etc etc...

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#520479

Postby AndyPandy » August 7th, 2022, 12:39 pm

MaraMan wrote:
PS - We have had a dashcam for a couple of years, since the time some a**ehole tried to brake test me in the fast lane of a dual carriageway and then run me off the road. I was very shaken up by the incident and realised I had no evidence if he had been successful. I recommend everyone has a dashcam fitted.


Absolutely 100%

I followed a car (at a distance) through a junction when the lights went green late one evening. Car coming from the other direction missed their red lights, went between us and I t-boned the passenger side. Driver claimed I jumped the lights and Front passenger lodged a Personal injury claim. Sent in the dashcam footage and within days they had admitted all liability. Saves so much hassle and joint liabilities etc. I had a witness behind me as well anyway, but the dashcam footage was rock-solid evidence.

I've had another no-fault crash since and one of the first things my insurer asked was to send in footage if I had it.

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#522015

Postby gryffron » August 13th, 2022, 12:08 am

Lootman wrote: writing down the wrong number plate would also surely lead to a different vehicle description.

Not necessarily. Garages tend to buy large blocks of numbers. So similar numbers are highly likely to be the same make and could be the same model and colour.

Also, to the OP, there is a staggering amount of information available from ANPR cameras these days. Movements are logged. You’d be surprised how easy it to track a vehicle’s movements. Once you start looking. If your number Plate has been cloned, the tracker should show it. Different locations too far apart to be real etc. Although, pictures aren’t usually kept unless there is an offence.

Gryff

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#522018

Postby Dod101 » August 13th, 2022, 12:13 am

AndyPandy wrote:
MaraMan wrote:
PS - We have had a dashcam for a couple of years, since the time some a**ehole tried to brake test me in the fast lane of a dual carriageway and then run me off the road. I was very shaken up by the incident and realised I had no evidence if he had been successful. I recommend everyone has a dashcam fitted.


Absolutely 100%

I followed a car (at a distance) through a junction when the lights went green late one evening. Car coming from the other direction missed their red lights, went between us and I t-boned the passenger side. Driver claimed I jumped the lights and Front passenger lodged a Personal injury claim. Sent in the dashcam footage and within days they had admitted all liability. Saves so much hassle and joint liabilities etc. I had a witness behind me as well anyway, but the dashcam footage was rock-solid evidence.

I've had another no-fault crash since and one of the first things my insurer asked was to send in footage if I had it.


Are you then prone to accidents as a result of your dashcam or because of it?

Dod

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#522041

Postby bungeejumper » August 13th, 2022, 8:14 am

Dod101 wrote:
AndyPandy wrote:I've had another no-fault crash since and one of the first things my insurer asked was to send in footage if I had it.

Are you then prone to accidents as a result of your dashcam or because of it?

Dashcams have been selling in large numbers for seven years now. That's not a particularly tight space of time in which to have two no-fault accidents. Or at least, not in the congested south. In the remoter parts of Scotland, I'd guess that wouldn't be so likely?

I was certainly double unlucky - rammed by a reversing Volvo, T-boned by a Land Rover coming out of a side turning, and T-boned again by a white van which performed an unauthorised U-turn and took my whole wing off. :| The Land Rover driver became aggressive, and a dash cam would undoubtedly have shut him up without the need for legal assistance.

BJ

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#522103

Postby UncleEbenezer » August 13th, 2022, 1:46 pm

bungeejumper wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
AndyPandy wrote:I've had another no-fault crash since and one of the first things my insurer asked was to send in footage if I had it.

Are you then prone to accidents as a result of your dashcam or because of it?

Dashcams have been selling in large numbers for seven years now. That's not a particularly tight space of time in which to have two no-fault accidents.

Perhaps Dod's point is that "no-fault" is generally an oversimplification and almost always a misnomer.

Near-misses happen all the time. Someone has a lapse of concentration or does something actively stupid, others in the path of potential trouble successfully avoid it - perhaps with a bit of a scare on the way.

An accident involving more than one party happens when both parties fail to prevent it. The one who caused the near miss, plus the one who failed to avoid it. The latter is legally deemed not at fault, but the case in which there's absolutely nothing they could've done is extremely rare. Hence the phrase "accident-prone" applied to those who have "no-fault" accidents more than perhaps once in a lifetime.

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#522106

Postby Lootman » August 13th, 2022, 2:16 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:
bungeejumper wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
AndyPandy wrote:I've had another no-fault crash since and one of the first things my insurer asked was to send in footage if I had it.

Are you then prone to accidents as a result of your dashcam or because of it?

Dashcams have been selling in large numbers for seven years now. That's not a particularly tight space of time in which to have two no-fault accidents.

Perhaps Dod's point is that "no-fault" is generally an oversimplification and almost always a misnomer.

Near-misses happen all the time. Someone has a lapse of concentration or does something actively stupid, others in the path of potential trouble successfully avoid it - perhaps with a bit of a scare on the way.

An accident involving more than one party happens when both parties fail to prevent it. The one who caused the near miss, plus the one who failed to avoid it. The latter is legally deemed not at fault, but the case in which there's absolutely nothing they could've done is extremely rare. Hence the phrase "accident-prone" applied to those who have "no-fault" accidents more than perhaps once in a lifetime.

Yes I think that the "failure to avoid" part of that is very important. In my experience that derives from having a paranoid approach to driving, such that I am constantly trying to anticipate what other drivers will do, making sure never to under-estimate the rank stupidity of many of them. This might include such tactics as leaving a bigger gap between myself and other vehicles, and slowing down when approaching junctions "just in case".

There is an entire concept called defensive driving which is based on such principles, and I was fortunate to take advanced driving classes when I was fairly young, which helped me develop a style of driving which confers a greater margin of safety than most drivers that I see out there.

And whilst I would be wary of self-identifying as an "expert" driver or even a "better" driver, I do believe that I am a safer driver and I do not drive at high speeds. I have had just one accident in the 50 years I have been driving, and that was relatively minor with no injury. Much of that driving has been in the crowded south-east of the country, plus in Los Angeles which takes a rather different set of driving skills.

Personally I would regard having two accidents in 7 years as being sufficiently "unlucky" that I might question my driving style and skills.


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