Gathering the estate assets

[AdrianC]

There’s a solicitor dealing with our dads estate. IHT paid, probate granted. Two times now the solicitor has had the executor sign papers to authorize the gathering of financial assets.

Solicitor wrote this after the first time:
“Having received your signed forms which we then sent to all concerned we are awaiting monies in.
Obviously I will be in touch as soon as all the monies are received as I will be in a position to prepare estate accounts for your approval.”

Odd language but seems reasonable. Then two months later the solicitor had the executor sign more papers, this time specifically for HSBC bank.

Any ideas what’s going on there?
- Solicitor forgot to include HSBC? Doubtful, about 1/2 of the assets are with them.
- HSBC are being awkward and delaying? Very believable.
- Some other issue or just normal procedure?

We’re coming up on a year since dad died. Fairly simple 50/50 split of money from the normal bank accounts, UK shares, ISAs, insurance bonds, premium bonds. Three months post grant of probate.

[Gersemi]

There’s a solicitor dealing with our dads estate. IHT paid, probate granted. Two times now the solicitor has had the executor sign papers to authorize the gathering of financial assets.

Solicitor wrote this after the first time:
“Having received your signed forms which we then sent to all concerned we are awaiting monies in.
Obviously I will be in touch as soon as all the monies are received as I will be in a position to prepare estate accounts for your approval.”

Odd language but seems reasonable. Then two months later the solicitor had the executor sign more papers, this time specifically for HSBC bank.

Any ideas what’s going on there?
- Solicitor forgot to include HSBC? Doubtful, about 1/2 of the assets are with them.
- HSBC are being awkward and delaying? Very believable.
- Some other issue or just normal procedure?

We’re coming up on a year since dad died. Fairly simple 50/50 split of money from the normal bank accounts, UK shares, ISAs, insurance bonds, premium bonds. Three months post grant of probate.

Haven't you had any payments? When each of my parents died I recieved interim payments from the professional executor (a bank) while the more difficult assets were realised.

[DrFfybes]

Sadly sounds like either they don't care, or cocked up. A lot of the prep can be done before Probate is granted, the ID and forms etc so the companies only need the Grant to proceed.

Once I got Probate for mum I collected and distributed the assets, like you a simple 50:50 split. I just checked my paperwork and Probate Grant arrived 25 Jan, first payment arrived from Prudential 1st Feb and all money (2 insurance cos, Interactive Investor, bank account, savings account, and sale of flat which was all ready to proceed) collected and distributed by 12 Feb.

Apart from her Link Ex Woodford holding whch is still in limbo nearly 2 years later, but which II transferred to my account for simplicity.

Paul

[Clitheroekid]

I suspect all that's happened is that the solicitors asked for the signed authority in the first place simply to enable them to obtain information from HSBC etc about the assets in the estate, so they could apply for probate.

Each bank has its own set of forms that they want signing, but these are usually sent out with the letter providing information, hence the need to sign a second lot of forms to actually release the asset.

[AdrianC]

Haven't you had any payments? When each of my parents died I recieved interim payments from the professional executor (a bank) while the more difficult assets were realised.

Nothing from the estate. There is a complication involving shares in a private small business, but that won't affect the financials, as far as I know. I already offered to sign over the shares that would come to me to the other beneficiary. Not my business, should have been taken care of years ago.

[AdrianC]

I suspect all that's happened is that the solicitors asked for the signed authority in the first place simply to enable them to obtain information from HSBC etc about the assets in the estate, so they could apply for probate.

Each bank has its own set of forms that they want signing, but these are usually sent out with the letter providing information, hence the need to sign a second lot of forms to actually release the asset.

Thanks. The first set of form I mentioned were signed 3 weeks after probate was granted. We are now 3 months after probate was granted.

Googling around, I see that HSBC has been known to demand additional identification from executors before releasing funds:
https://trustsdiscussionforum.co.uk/t/h ... funds/9103

Maybe that's it?

Anyone know how long HSBC take after getting all the required documentation? A couple of weeks would seem reasonable.

[stewamax]

The first set of form I mentioned were signed 3 weeks after probate was granted.

After? This prompts the obvious question of what authority did you give to the solicitor to contact the banks to get the balance of each account? This is needed before IHT (if any) is paid and probate granted (and probate will not be granted if there is an IHT liability that remains unpaid)

[Gerry557]

The executor might not issue anything from the estate for 6 months. The executor has to ensure that any debt claimants and or love children etc have been given time to stake their claims and would be liable for making any further payments themselves should an error occur.

They might make some payments if they think it's almost risk free or a a low enough level that the estate has the wealth to make amends.

I'm not too sure what was happening with your scenario, you could ask them to explain and ask about time frames.

[AdrianC]

The first set of form I mentioned were signed 3 weeks after probate was granted.

After? This prompts the obvious question of what authority did you give to the solicitor to contact the banks to get the balance of each account? This is needed before IHT (if any) is paid and probate granted (and probate will not be granted if there is an IHT liability that remains unpaid)

The executor (not me) signed some papers back in January to get things going. IHT was paid and probate applied for in May. Probate granted early September. Three weeks after that the executor signed papers to allow the gathering of assets. Then just this week the solicitor had them sign additional papers specifically for HSBC.

There’s possibly some complication with investments held at HSBC, maybe with Jupiter. As far as I know, the rest is simple bank accounts and ISAs.

[AdrianC]

The executor might not issue anything from the estate for 6 months. The executor has to ensure that any debt claimants and or love children etc have been given time to stake their claims and would be liable for making any further payments themselves should an error occur.

They might make some payments if they think it's almost risk free or a a low enough level that the estate has the wealth to make amends.

I'm not too sure what was happening with your scenario, you could ask them to explain and ask about time frames.

Six months from grant of probate? That’ll be 3 months beyond the “executors year”. I’ve also seen to wait until “it's been at least 10 months since you applied for probate”, which would amount to about the same.

I don’t think it’s necessary in our case, but the way things are going it’ll take that long anyway. The solicitor seems to be a do it all by snail mail type, and I’m on a different continent.

[Gerry557]

I would ask the solicitor for an update. Exactly what has been collected and what is outstanding. I assume there is a pot of cash somewhere. I opened a special representative account with Nat west when acting as executor to keep estate funds and pay out any final bills.

The cynic in me thinks that solicitors take time as it suits them and possibly they have your funds in their account aiding them.

As it been a year, I would have thought that waiting time has ended and part payments could be made until any final bills are settled.

[AdrianC]

It would be nice to know what has been collected and what is outstanding. I'm not the executor so have no standing with the solicitor.
The executor is apparently taking a wait and see approach. I'd be pushing them more, but that's just me.

[Gerry557]

Well ask the executor the same questions. They should get the answers for you.

[gryffron]

First obvious question. Why are they letting the solicitor do anything?

It's perfectly easy for any competent person to act as executor, and gather all the estate assets for themself(s). Passing the job over to solicitors is a good way to erode the value of the estate. Basically you're handing them a blank cheque. Not to mention them taking an absolute age. The longer it takes, the more money they make. Cynical, moi? And its not like they do the job "better", or quicker. The executors still have to find all the assets and fill in all the details. Letting the solicitors do this is just adding an extra layer of delay at your expense.

Gryff

[Elvisbarney]

I would fully endorse the comments of gryffron. It seems the heavy lifting in this case has already been completed, in respect of probate and IHT paid.
Why not terminate the solicitor forthwith and guide the executor to finalise any form-filling to allow the final release of assets?
Gov.uk provides a pretty much idiots-proof guide to navigate the process, and I used it successfully with both my parents, one with and one without a will.

[DrFfybes]

First obvious question. Why are they letting the solicitor do anything?

Gryff

Because most people don't realise how simple the process is, or are nervous of making a mistake, or find it daunting handling large amounts of other peoples' money, or don't realise they have the option of getting half the job done and doing the rest themselves, or don't think they have the time to do it, or think it is very complex and they'll fall foul of some odd rule, or are in shock at the loss of a loved one and not thinking straight.

And because if they do cock it up, they can be liable.

So if the Will names the solicitor as Executor, then let them get on with it.

It's perfectly easy for any competent person to act as executor, and gather all the estate assets for themself(s).

I agree, they could have taken over once Probate was granted, although now a partial Gathering has been done it will complicate things as Creditors are already dealing with the Solicitors.

Like most things, it is easy when you know how. With Dad we gave the sols a list of assets and got fixed fee probate, used them again with MrsF's parents as they had Trusts leeving stuff between them and died within 4 days of each other. By the time mum went 2 years ago I'd been through it twice and it was relatively simple, although I still paid a 'form filler' as there was transferrable NRB and RNRB to claim and it turned out I was probably filling in subforms I didn't need to.

Paul

[smokey01]

Is there an idiots guide to getting probate and sorting out IHT form filling? In our family everything is straightforward just a house, some investments and cash accounts, split equally between heirs. But some IHT will be due.

[swill453]

So if the Will names the solicitor as Executor, then let them get on with it.

Note though, that in this case the solicitor isn't the executor.

Presumably the executor has contracted the solicitor to do the entire job though.

Scott.

[Gerry557]

Is there an idiots guide to getting probate and sorting out IHT form filling? In our family everything is straightforward just a house, some investments and cash accounts, split equally between heirs. But some IHT will be due.

https://www.gov.uk/probate-estate

[AdrianC]

So if the Will names the solicitor as Executor, then let them get on with it.

Note though, that in this case the solicitor isn't the executor.

Presumably the executor has contracted the solicitor to do the entire job though.

Scott.

Thanks all, and yes this is the case. The executor (my brother) uses a financial advisor and accountant and so it was natural for him to use a solicitor for this. I'm not an executor and live a few thousand miles away.

It's a very delicate subject between us. I don't want to appear to be grasping for the money, and indeed do not need it. I've been comfortably FI for a decade or more. I just like to get things sorted out as soon as possible. This is really itching at my brain. Dad would be horrified that it's taking so long.

I do see how families fall out over this stuff and don't want that to happen to us.