How can this be legal?

[Nemo]

Puzzling, to say the least

A homeowner was stunned when he came back to his property to find a 30ft broadband pole planted in his front garden.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... arden.html

[didds]

Hmmm.

"Mr Carmichael, 48, who runs a local garage, said: 'I own the house my tenant messaged me to say someone had installed a pole in the garden."

maybe ... several letters were sent to "the homeowner, address X" or "Mr Carmichael, Address X" but the tenant didn't see fit to pass them on to Mr Carmichael?

Pure conjecture on my part of course.

And the pole isn't blocking any actual view really is it?

Daily Mail click bait.

[Nemo]

Daily Mail click bait.

My first thought, but I was surprised to find this:

Electricity power lines, water, sewer and gas pipes all form “utility apparatus” and as such, companies have statutory powers to enter private land under legislation such as the Electricity Act 1989, Water Industry Act 1991 and the Gas Act 1986.

https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/business ... ty-company

[monabri]

A right to enter the land is one thing...errecting a new installation is another.

[Nemo]

A right to enter the land is one thing...errecting a new installation is another.

I'm not too sure as the utility companies mentioned above must have some rights to add/remove things

[chas49]

A right to enter the land is one thing...errecting a new installation is another.

I'm not too sure as the utility companies mentioned above must have some rights to add/remove things

The article quoted above goes on to refer to wayleaves and easements - which relate to the permission to erect/install equipment. (The right of access mentioned relates to exisiting equipment - for which a wayleave would need to exist).

This Openreach page (https://www.openreach.com/help-and-supp ... 51d2b7e085) indicates that they ask the landowner for a wayleave. In extreme circumstances they can get a court order to grant one, but that's a last resort.

I suspect there's some info missing from the DM article

[Nemo]

I suspect there's some info missing from the DM article

I'd be surprised if there wasn't, it is The Mail after all

It brings up an interesting point though.

[didds]

and wrt wayleaves and the like, the article mentions that the installers claim the land was actually part of a service strip and not REALLY Mr Carmichael's land.

that of course may merely be a Mandy Rice-Davies moment...

[Nemo]

and wrt wayleaves and the like, the article mentions that the installers claim the land was actually part of a service strip and not REALLY Mr Carmichael's land.

that of course may merely be a Mandy Rice-Davies moment...

Does every house have a service strip? They seem to cause problems:

https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/410 ... ice-strip/

[the0ni0nking]

The eyesore not only wrecked Richard Carmichael's front lawn in Hull, East Yorkshire, but also ruined the views from his lounge and bedroom windows.

Looking at the pictures it did neither. And a view of some area of Hull is still a view of Hull.

It stinks of creosote..... They have shown no consideration about where they put my poles. 'The front garden looks absolutely appalling. It looked like they had done quite a bit of damage. It is just an eyesore.

My poles?

As someone who witnessed the council replace a lampost on the public footpath outside my house but at same time demolish my front wall, I know what damage looks like. I think his description of appalling is absolutely OTT.

Always good to be occasionally reminded why I don't buy the Daily Mail and haven't been to Hull since 2004 (when I had to go as one of my accountancy modules was taught there!).

[DrFfybes]

and wrt wayleaves and the like, the article mentions that the installers claim the land was actually part of a service strip and not REALLY Mr Carmichael's land.

Exactly this. We used to get issues with people who'd never read their Deeds and landscaped the service strip, often fencing it in, and then got upset when we wanted access to a streetlight.

[Nemo]

The eyesore not only wrecked Richard Carmichael's front lawn in Hull, East Yorkshire, but also ruined the views from his lounge and bedroom windows.

Looking at the pictures it did neither. And a view of some area of Hull is still a view of Hull.

It stinks of creosote..... They have shown no consideration about where they put my poles. 'The front garden looks absolutely appalling. It looked like they had done quite a bit of damage. It is just an eyesore.

My poles?

As someone who witnessed the council replace a lampost on the public footpath outside my house but at same time demolish my front wall, I know what damage looks like. I think his description of appalling is absolutely OTT.

Always good to be occasionally reminded why I don't buy the Daily Mail and haven't been to Hull since 2004 (when I had to go as one of my accountancy modules was taught there!).

Typical Mail I agree, but the point is that he didn't want it (who would) and they stuck it there.

If I ever move I'll make sure that there is nothing like a service strip around the property, if that is possible that is.

I've learned something today thanks to The Mail - not often you can say that is it?

[didds]

If I ever move I'll make sure that there is nothing like a service strip around the property, if that is possible that is.

Arent these often named "ransom strips" - so named as to but them costs a huge amount of money relative to their actual size etc to prevent people using them for behivle access etc

[88V8]

"Mr Carmichael, 48, who runs a local garage, said: 'I own the house my tenant messaged me to say someone had installed a pole in the garden."

Runner bean growing opportunity.
Clematis.
Hops.
Etc.

Beehive access??

V8

[didds]

sorry - vehicle. it was too late for me to edit the post once i noticed.

[Niksen]

Arent these often named "ransom strips" - so named as to but them costs a huge amount of money relative to their actual size etc to prevent people using them for behivle access etc

A service strip is just an area of public highway that is usually covered in grass not tarmac and runs alongside the road. Often there is a pavement between the service strip and private property and so it is obvious it doesn't belong to the home owner, but it is when there is an open frontage that runs into the service strip (as in this case) that issues can arise.

A ransom strip is when there is a piece of land that blocks the owner of a piece of land behind from developing it because that land has no direct road access, and the origin of that ransom strip might be deliberate or accidental.

Someone might have sold a field to a neighbour and didn't wanted to make sure that if it become a housing estate they got a part of that profit (there are other legal routes to do this, but they are usually time limited), so they retained ownership of a 'ransom' strip of land where it borders against the road so their neighbour couldn't sell it to a developer as there would be no road access unless they paid the owner of the ransom strip an appropriate amount for their land.

Alternatively a situation I came across a few years ago was a line of half a dozen back gardens that someone wanted to develop and being old houses with huge gardens everyone was happy. However the house at one end was the only one where their garden bordered the road to one side, so effectively they could demand a higher price for their garden than all the others as without it there was no road access to the site (although theoretically there was a cascading series of ransom strips as you went down the gardens).

[Nemo]

Hi Niksen

Thanks for the article - excellent and clear.

I've a close relative who is looking at moving to a newish housing estate - one where there is a lot of open green spaces. Would a solicitor be duty bound to mention these service/ransom strips? Is it even possible to look these up somewhere?

I'll mention this to her.

[Niksen]

I've a close relative who is looking at moving to a newish housing estate - one where there is a lot of open green spaces. Would a solicitor be duty bound to mention these service/ransom strips? Is it even possible to look these up somewhere?

Unlikely to be a ransom strip issue, but if she was interested in service strips then the first thing to do would be to look at what is there.

If what she is buying is house -> garden -> fence -> pavement -> road then it is pretty unlikely there is a service strip there, but she could ask the solicitor to check.

If what she is buying is house -> garden -> road (or road with hint of pavement as is the way on many new developments) then I would definitely check, as that was the issue in the case in the article; that there was no definitive boundary between the end of the garden and the service strip.

Also in the article it mentioned that the owner had checked their deeds, but the Land Registry deeds are just a rough indication and wouldn't be detailed enough to definitively prove whether that 18" strip of land next to the road is yours or belongs to the highway.

However if it is a new development with lots of green space then I would also be asking questions about

- the adoption of the roads, and whether they are they designed and constructed so the council will adopt them at some time, as many are not designed or constructed to a standard that the council will ever adopt them and so the residents will be on the hook for any future maintenance - the reason they are designed this way is that the developers can squeeze more houses on the site. For example a new estate next to mine has 'pavements' that 9" wide - that is correct nine inches - effectively just a couple of lines of brick pavers next to the edge of the road. Doing that, and making the roads narrow and with very tight corners meant more houses could be squeezed onto the plot, but that road and pavement doesn't meet the council standards so it is impossible for it ever to be adopted.

- similarly with the green spaces, who is paying for the maintenance and upkeep, and likely it will be the residents through some sort of management charge, but how much, who runs it, is there a limit to increases, etc.

[Maroochydore]

I think the more important point is further down the story :

Many residents have already declared they will not be changing to the new provider as they see no reason why the poles and wires cannot be buried like the other two networks. He added: 'Kingston has put in underground cables so has MS3. So there are already two underground networks.

So two other networks bury their cables but this company take the cheaper option of erecting poles. Why don't they all get to together and dig the road up once.

[Lootman]

"Mr Carmichael, 48, who runs a local garage, said: 'I own the house my tenant messaged me to say someone had installed a pole in the garden."

Runner bean growing opportunity.
Clematis.
Hops.
Etc.

Beehive access??

Is there a way to attract woodpeckers who will eventually weaken the pole?

Or a way to sabotage the electrical bits at the top?

Make it cheaper for them to underground it, as of course they should have done. I could have some fun with this.