Problem with a Surveyor

[wavewarrior]

I am in the process of buying a property, and engaged a Surveyor. I received the Surveyors Report, asked him some questions in relation to his report, which involved correspondence over a few days. I was unhappy with some of the Surveyors answers, but as time was pressing I decided to circulate the Survey Report (at his initial suggestion) to my Solicitor, last Thursday, just referring the Solicitor to those items in the Report I was happy with.
On Friday I asked the Surveyor for his complaints procedure as I was a dis-satisfied customer. The Surveyor responded Saturday:-

As the property has not been purchased the reference to the complaints handling is irrelevant. I am sorry that you are not happy with the service. The only option is for you to please provide me with your bank details and I will return your fee. The report will then become void obviously and you can instruct another surveyor as you wish.

I have today Sunday received another email from the Surveyor:-

Reimbursement made. As a reminder there is now no longer a contract and the Survey is void. I will inform the Estate Agent tomorrow that this is the case and the survey findings cannot be referred to.

Well I, and probably the Solicitor, have read the Report before the Surveyor opted to reimburse his fee, rather than inform me of his complaints procedure. Certainly the knowledge in the Report is already in my head and cannot be expunged from it covering such points as some re-pointing is required, the loft is not ventilated etc

Any comments welcome.

[Hallucigenia]

I'm not clear based on what you've said, how the decision to proceed with the purchase or not is relevant.

But assuming he's a member of the RICS then they are the body to complain to if you feel you have a case against them :
https://www.rics.org/regulation/reporting-concerns

[wavewarrior]

Thanks Hallucigenia

I am still proceeding with the purchase and am quite happy not to quote his report from today, but the knowledge in his report is still in my head. He is a member of the RICS, but the problem is he is attempting to censor knowledge which is in my head.

[Hallucigenia]

Thanks Hallucigenia

I am still proceeding with the purchase and am quite happy not to quote his report from today, but the knowledge in his report is still in my head. He is a member of the RICS, but the problem is he is attempting to censor knowledge which is in my head.

It's not so much he's trying to censor anything, just pointing out that having received a refund you no longer have an official survey report, which will be a requirement for eg a mortgage lender.

[wavewarrior]

Also the Surveyor is trying to censor knowledge which I have already transmitted to the Solicitor (now public?)

There is no mortgage lender involved

[Hallucigenia]

Also the Surveyor is trying to censor knowledge which I have already transmitted to the Solicitor (now public?)

He's not trying to censor anything, just pointing out that since you have not paid for a survey, you do not have an official survey that can be used in any situation where you need to provide a proof of survey - a mortgage being the classic example.

When you engage a surveyor, you're not really paying for the words on the survey, it's more the backing of his professional judgement. Now that you haven't paid him, the words might exist but the absence of his professional backing means that those words are worthless in the eyes of people with boxes to tick.

[Mike4]

Also the Surveyor is trying to censor knowledge which I have already transmitted to the Solicitor (now public?)

There is no mortgage lender involved

I suspect his (unvoiced) concern is to head off any potential claim from you for professional negligence.

Such a claim could massively exceed the fee for the survey!

[staffordian]

Thanks Hallucigenia

I am still proceeding with the purchase and am quite happy not to quote his report from today, but the knowledge in his report is still in my head. He is a member of the RICS, but the problem is he is attempting to censor knowledge which is in my head.

It's not so much he's trying to censor anything, just pointing out that having received a refund you no longer have an official survey report, which will be a requirement for eg a mortgage lender.

I imagine the lender will want their own (cursory) survey regardless of the OP having had his (or her) own done. The lender only wants to make sure that the property is worth lending against, which often simply means that the property actually exists and isn’t about to fall down.

My take on the surveyors emails is that it is more to do with @rse covering, i.e. emphasising that he can not be held liable for any omissions etc in his report which he might have overlooked.

I obviously don't have any idea of why the OP isn't happy, but in my limited experience of commissioning a survey, the reports are littered with so many caveats about what they have been unable to check, or which should be further investigated by specialists that they are barely worthwhile,

[Hallucigenia]

I imagine the lender will want their own (cursory) survey regardless of the OP having had his (or her) own done. The lender

In this case there is no lender so that point is moot, but there's a general point about "suitability for ticking boxes" that still stands.

I'm sure Lemons would not dream of doing it, but there are people on this planet who will try to rip off professionals by eg commissioning a survey and then trying to wriggle out of paying for it by claiming there's some problem or other. In that situation the professional can't unwrite the words in the report, but they can withdraw their professional backing to it, so that it can't be used for any purpose where a box needs to be ticked. He's just pointed that out, saying the OP will need a new report for any official purposes.

Based on the information we have, my sympathy is with the surveyor...

[Dicky99]

Thanks Hallucigenia

I am still proceeding with the purchase and am quite happy not to quote his report from today, but the knowledge in his report is still in my head. He is a member of the RICS, but the problem is he is attempting to censor knowledge which is in my head.

Have you considered using the returned funds to obtain another survey which will provide a second opinion on the repointing and the roof space ventilation?

[wavewarrior]

Thanks for various replies.

I did not cancel the surveyor and ask for my money back. It was he who rather than give me his complaint procedure, which will presumably offer me an option to refer the complaint to the RICS, said he wanted to return my money which presumable is on its way back.

Yes I intend to get another surveyor or loft engineer to check the loft, as the original survey, whilst mentioning an un-ventilated loft said nothing about condensation (or otherwise) in the loft, however my reason for raising the subject here, is am I supposed to pretend I do not now know the loft is un-ventilated, and cannot say to the Seller/Managing Agent I know the loft is unventilated?

[Dicky99]

Based on the information we have, my sympathy is with the surveyor...

I'm inclined to agree since, unless there is more to the story than has been related, matters such as repointing and roof space ventilation are, in the scheme of things, relatively minor issues. If these prompted the days of correspondence referred to that may be sufficient for a busy Surveyor to decide to cut their losses by giving the fee back and drawing a line under it.

[Dicky99]

Thanks for various replies.

I did not cancel the surveyor and ask for my money back. It was he who rather than give me his complaint procedure, which will presumably offer me an option to refer the complaint to the RICS, said he wanted to return my money which presumable is on its way back.

Yes I intend to get another surveyor or loft engineer to check the loft, as the original survey, whilst mentioning an un-ventilated loft said nothing about condensation (or otherwise) in the loft, however my reason for raising the subject here, is am I supposed to pretend I do not now know the loft is un-ventilated, and cannot say to the Seller/Managing Agent I know the loft is unventilated?

I'm not entirely sure what you're concerned about. I'd guess this property's build date is pre 1990 as pretty much all roofs prior to that were unventilated and, by virtue of them tending to be draughty the vast majority are unaffected by condensation.

In exception cases, or just in conjunction with roof refurbishment, insulation upgrading etc it is quite an easy matter to retrofit some plastic soffit vents front and back and for a better job a couple of vented ridge tiles.

[88V8]

Yes I intend to get another surveyor or loft engineer to check the loft, as the original survey, whilst mentioning an un-ventilated loft said nothing about condensation (or otherwise) in the loft, however my reason for raising the subject here, is am I supposed to pretend I do not now know the loft is un-ventilated, and cannot say to the Seller/Managing Agent I know the loft is unventilated?

I do not understand the problem. No survey is perfect, there were a number of issues missed when we bought our C17 cottage, that cost over £15k and a lot of angst to rectify, but in the end it was my decision to proceed, I have eyes and should have been able to spot at least some of the unseen issues. The survey was still helpful, not least in negotiating a few thousands off the price for some points that the surveyor flagged, most of which were in fact inconsequential.

An unventilated loft is easy to rectify. One of ours was unventilated, I just cut some holes in the felt near the apex.
Many surveyors do not even look in the loft unless specifically asked.

I would look to a surveyor for advice on fundamental matters such as subsidence or rot, rather than relatively minor matters.
In any case, you do now know about the loft so that has been useful to you and of course you can proceed accordingly, you just cannot sue the surveyor.

V8

[Mike4]

Thanks for various replies.

I did not cancel the surveyor and ask for my money back. It was he who rather than give me his complaint procedure, which will presumably offer me an option to refer the complaint to the RICS, said he wanted to return my money which presumable is on its way back.

Yes I intend to get another surveyor or loft engineer to check the loft, as the original survey, whilst mentioning an un-ventilated loft said nothing about condensation (or otherwise) in the loft, however my reason for raising the subject here, is am I supposed to pretend I do not now know the loft is un-ventilated, and cannot say to the Seller/Managing Agent I know the loft is unventilated?

Right, were I the surveyor I too would have refunded your money and moved on to surveying properties for people who just wanted my honest opinion about whether the place was worth buying.

Some clients are just trouble and well worth jettisoning and although I'm not a surveyor, a client getting picky about trivia such as loft ventilation gets me really twitchy and I can see why he is running a mile.

[modellingman]

The action of unilaterally refunding the survey fee seems extreme. The surveyor has entered into an agreement with the OP to undertake a survey and produce a report in return for a fee. Subsequently, and for reasons which are not entirely clear, the surveyor took action to try and unwind that transaction after it had largely been completed.

If the surveyor is a member of RICS, then RICS rules of conduct impose the obligation that RICS regulated firms must publish a complaints-handling procedure, which includes an alternative dispute resolution provider approved by RICS, and maintain a complaints log. (Appendix A of the Rules of Conduct downloadable from the RICS website).

The OP does not indicate if the surveyor claimed to be regulated by RICS but the refusal to provide a copy of the complaints procedure, the surveyor's reason for refusing to provide it and the subsequent unilateral action on the part of the surveyor all indicate some cause for concern. In the OP's shoes I would probably be considering whether an approach to RICS might be appropriate.

Little detail is provided about the OPs follow up questions and answers after the survey report was received. It is possible, as another poster has noted, that the surveyor felt that he was being asked to go above and beyond dealing with the OPs questions and decided to cut his losses by acting as he did. If this is the case, then it strikes me as being completely unprofessional. A more professional response would surely been to have said that a report had been produced, as agreed, and that any further work in answering detailed questions beyond those already dealt with would involve charging additional fees.

It is also possible, though, that the questioning raised issues about something that the surveyor had overlooked when undertaking the survey and it was an unwillingness to be frank about this that drove the surveyor's rather bizarre response.

As the OP notes, he cannot unread the surveyor's report and I do not think he should attempt to conceal his knowledge of its content when interacting with others involved in the potential purchase. However, given the surveyor's subsequent behaviour following the issue of the report the OP might want to consider just how much technical (as opposed to legal) reliance can be placed on it. Whilst I can understand the OP's annoyance at the behaviour of the surveyor, the claim of "censorship" is surely a bit extreme.

modellingman

[Crazbe7]

You have a 'free report' and can employ a new Surveyor. There are issues you'd specifically like them to address. Move on.

Trying to get any disciplinary action from RICS would be as tortious as walking backwards through treacle. 30+ years in the construction industry has taught me that. Don't bother.

Crazbe7

[elkay]

I always considered getting a surveyor's report as a form of insurance. If an issue crops up following purchase that should have been highlighted in the surveyors report, but wasn't, I would expect that to be grounds for a claim against the surveyor, and presumably covered under professional insurance.

Whether or not the surveyor can unilaterally cancel the contract seems to be the question to me. If he can, then I would be looking for another surveyor's report before purchase, to be confident that potential issues have been identified.

I don't know if the insurance aspect exists, I'm sure someone will be along to correct me...

[dionaeamuscipula]

Thanks for various replies.

I did not cancel the surveyor and ask for my money back. It was he who rather than give me his complaint procedure, which will presumably offer me an option to refer the complaint to the RICS, said he wanted to return my money which presumable is on its way back.

Yes I intend to get another surveyor or loft engineer to check the loft, as the original survey, whilst mentioning an un-ventilated loft said nothing about condensation (or otherwise) in the loft, however my reason for raising the subject here, is am I supposed to pretend I do not now know the loft is un-ventilated, and cannot say to the Seller/Managing Agent I know the loft is unventilated?

You can't un-learn things, so you can use that knowledge as you see fit, however you should not refer to the report and you cannot rely on it in the case of a dispute. Presumably the vendors already know a surveyor has visited, so it won't come as a surprise.

There may be a confidentiality clause in the contract which will probably survive termination, if so you should act accordingly.

DM

[Gerry557]

It's difficult to see what the actual issue is/was and we only have one side of the argument and that's limited.

I suspect that you are seen as a bit of a problem child, having to provide written correspondence over days and it was easier to cut ties and losses. I suspect he thought that the job involved an inspection and a report, which you received but then took up to much more of his time. The complaints procedure would have been another drag on that so decided to quit whilst ahead.

As for unseeing, you also have eyes so you can say you observed it. Get another report and specify the areas you want further details.

Good luck the the new house.