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Alcohol free gin

your favourite tipple - wine, beer, spirits
swill453
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Alcohol free gin

#374967

Postby swill453 » January 8th, 2021, 8:50 pm

I see you can get Gordons Alcohol Free (gin not mentioned) and it's about the same price as real gin.

Anyone tried it? Seems like a real rip off, with no duty to pay.

Scott.

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Re: Alcohol free gin

#374981

Postby monabri » January 8th, 2021, 10:12 pm

I saw it advertised on TV and, like you, wondered why they were charging so much?

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Re: Alcohol free gin

#374989

Postby Mike4 » January 8th, 2021, 10:46 pm

swill453 wrote:I see you can get Gordons Alcohol Free (gin not mentioned)


Why would you want to....?

bungeejumper
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Re: Alcohol free gin

#375141

Postby bungeejumper » January 9th, 2021, 1:28 pm

Mike4 wrote:
swill453 wrote:I see you can get Gordons Alcohol Free (gin not mentioned)

Why would you want to....?

The BBC Food and Drink site had a recent feature on pricey alcohol free spirits. Leaving aside the fact that the mere description of the stuff sounds about as logical as a spiceless curry, it said that Seedlip, one of the first pioneers, was instantly popular among upmarket barkeepers who were getting fed up with customers who walked in and ordered a fizzy water.

Apparently the next big thing is going to be non-alcoholic Campari. I can't imagine how they're ever going to replace the authentic taste of petrol. :|

BJ

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Re: Alcohol free gin

#375154

Postby Dod101 » January 9th, 2021, 1:47 pm

bungeejumper wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
swill453 wrote:I see you can get Gordons Alcohol Free (gin not mentioned)

Why would you want to....?

The BBC Food and Drink site had a recent feature on pricey alcohol free spirits. Leaving aside the fact that the mere description of the stuff sounds about as logical as a spiceless curry, it said that Seedlip, one of the first pioneers, was instantly popular among upmarket barkeepers who were getting fed up with customers who walked in and ordered a fizzy water.

Apparently the next big thing is going to be non-alcoholic Campari. I can't imagine how they're ever going to replace the authentic taste of petrol. :|

BJ


I actually rather like Campari and soda.

Dod

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Re: Alcohol free gin

#375262

Postby redsturgeon » January 9th, 2021, 6:24 pm

This is a complex subject that deserves a lot more thought than this off the cuff response I am motivate to post while I wait for my curry, but here goes.

I was a moderate drinker (I would say that would I) who had been known to binge on occasion and who genuinely enjoyed a drink with friends on a regular basis. I could say it has never done me any harm in the 50 years or so I have been drinking alcohol. I have however lost two friends to alcohol who died in their 50s and lost touch with another who lost three wives and several homes through alcohol abuse. One other friend killed a woman pedestrian while driving drunk.

During lockdown I noticed I was drinking more and more ever day but not to the point of being drunk and incapable and not enough to cause a hangover. My main worry though was my 22 year old daughter who was drinking with me and at half my body mass sometimes outdrinking me.

In July we made a pact to stop drinking, we managed the whole month without a drink and have not really had a drink since. My daughter actually did drink with friends on Xmas eve and did not particularly enjoy the experience. I have had a few beers twice since July when out at a pub meeting mates but I found no extra pleasure in the beer from the alcohol.

I now drink alcohol free beer, you can actually get some which taste pretty good, although many are terrible. My daughter also drinks AF beer but also makes alcohol free cocktails, many using AF gin, of which Seedlip is pretty good.

So what if it costs as much a gin, if it tastes good that's fine, the same for AF beer. What are you actually paying for when you buy alcohol beyond tax?

My daughter has freed herself from relying on alcohol as a social crutch, unlike most of her friends who still enjoy getting so drunk that they feel terrible the next day. She is happy that she has been able to ferry her friends around (during the short window of non lockdown this summer) without worrying about being over the limit. She feels liberated and I am very happy for her.

Personally I still remember looking back at many of the great fun times I have had over the years with friends and family that involved alcohol and feel I may slightly be missing out...but not too much.

This is not aimed at persuading anyone one way or another about drinking alcohol, merely pointing out my recent personal experience.

John

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Re: Alcohol free gin

#375272

Postby Lootman » January 9th, 2021, 6:49 pm

monabri wrote:I saw it advertised on TV and, like you, wondered why they were charging so much?

If it is made the same way as their normal gin, and then goes through an extra process to remove the alcohol, then it is reasonable that it would cost the same or more. But the excise duty should be less, as that is based on alcohol content.

redsturgeon wrote:My main worry though was my 22 year old daughter who was drinking with me and at half my body mass sometimes outdrinking me.

But young people can drink more even if they weigh less. My sons are about the same size and weight as me but they often have two drinks to my one. I assume this is simply a matter of practice. In my youth I could drink a gallon of beer in a session and still walk home. I would have no chance of doing that now. A night in the pub (when they are open) is 2 or 3 pints; 4 would be a binge.

In other words I do not think it is a binary choice between too much and none. Rather the key is to drink less, drink slower and know when to stop. But not everyone can successfully moderate and I can see the value of AF drinks, although I have never had one.

Giving up would be very hard for me. Some friends of mine have solved the problem by alternating between drinking days and non-drinking days, which works for them.

swill453
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Re: Alcohol free gin

#375273

Postby swill453 » January 9th, 2021, 6:50 pm

redsturgeon wrote:So what if it costs as much a gin, if it tastes good that's fine, the same for AF beer. What are you actually paying for when you buy alcohol beyond tax?

I guess it's just a feeling of being ripped off. If I buy a litre of gin at about £20, about £10 of that goes in duty which contributes to the greater good (in theory).

If I buy a litre of the AF version, the extra £10 goes in profit to someone (Gordons or Tesco or shared along the chain).

(I'm assuming it doesn't cost any more to produce, which I think is a pretty safe assumption).

If it had a lower price point then it would encourage more people to try/buy it, which could be a good thing.

Scott.

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Re: Alcohol free gin

#375285

Postby Mike4 » January 9th, 2021, 7:25 pm

swill453 wrote:(I'm assuming it doesn't cost any more to produce, which I think is a pretty safe assumption).


I disagree.

Yes it may be cheap to actually make 'normal' gin but distilling the alcohol out afterwards probably doubles the cost of production, why wouldn't it? It's very energy-intensive as well as being an extra process.

But the main problem I suspect is if that is all that is done, the result probably tastes pretty awful. My guess is an absolute tonne of money has been poured into R&D to come up with a process that still tastes exactly like gin once the alcohol has been removed, so it's fair enough to be milking it to recover the development costs.

If it was easy everyone would be doing it! (One of my own personal maxims.)

swill453
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Re: Alcohol free gin

#375341

Postby swill453 » January 9th, 2021, 11:22 pm

Mike4 wrote:
swill453 wrote:(I'm assuming it doesn't cost any more to produce, which I think is a pretty safe assumption).

I disagree.

Yes it may be cheap to actually make 'normal' gin but distilling the alcohol out afterwards probably doubles the cost of production, why wouldn't it? It's very energy-intensive as well as being an extra process.

But the main problem I suspect is if that is all that is done, the result probably tastes pretty awful. My guess is an absolute tonne of money has been poured into R&D to come up with a process that still tastes exactly like gin once the alcohol has been removed, so it's fair enough to be milking it to recover the development costs.

If it was easy everyone would be doing it! (One of my own personal maxims.)

I disagree :-)

The production cost of a litre of gin can't be more than a couple of quid. Bunging a full £10 onto the price of the AF version has to be a rip off in my view.

Scott.

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Re: Alcohol free gin

#375370

Postby Eboli » January 10th, 2021, 7:59 am

I can only offer a subjective reply on the pre-mixed Gordon's no alcohol gin and tonic, which I bought a packet of four bottles recently.

Awful.

I have three non-alcoholic drinks I turn to when needed:

1. Sparkling water (sometimes with a slice of fruit, sometimes with a sprig of herbs)

2. Tonic water with added drops of bitters (though strictly this makes the drink very slightly alcoholic as bitters are around 50% ABV)

3. Kombucha - and I find I am drinking more and more of this.

Eb.

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Re: Alcohol free gin

#375426

Postby Mike4 » January 10th, 2021, 11:08 am

swill453 wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
swill453 wrote:(I'm assuming it doesn't cost any more to produce, which I think is a pretty safe assumption).

I disagree.

Yes it may be cheap to actually make 'normal' gin but distilling the alcohol out afterwards probably doubles the cost of production, why wouldn't it? It's very energy-intensive as well as being an extra process.

But the main problem I suspect is if that is all that is done, the result probably tastes pretty awful. My guess is an absolute tonne of money has been poured into R&D to come up with a process that still tastes exactly like gin once the alcohol has been removed, so it's fair enough to be milking it to recover the development costs.

If it was easy everyone would be doing it! (One of my own personal maxims.)

I disagree :-)

The production cost of a litre of gin can't be more than a couple of quid. Bunging a full £10 onto the price of the AF version has to be a rip off in my view.

Scott.


You're still ignoring the sunk costs in developing a new product.

Yes it might still only cost £2 a litre to make but how do they get back the £15m (wild guess) they spent developing the new product?

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Re: Alcohol free gin

#375432

Postby swill453 » January 10th, 2021, 11:32 am

Mike4 wrote:You're still ignoring the sunk costs in developing a new product.

Yes it might still only cost £2 a litre to make but how do they get back the £15m (wild guess) they spent developing the new product?

They're selling a soft drink for £20 a litre! OK I'll comment no more, but I ain't buying it.

Scott.

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Re: Alcohol free gin

#375437

Postby Mike4 » January 10th, 2021, 11:49 am

swill453 wrote:
Mike4 wrote:You're still ignoring the sunk costs in developing a new product.

Yes it might still only cost £2 a litre to make but how do they get back the £15m (wild guess) they spent developing the new product?

They're selling a soft drink for £20 a litre! OK I'll comment no more, but I ain't buying it.

Scott.


Or possibly not, given you intend not to buy it.

I get the impression you don't really grasp the commercial reality of running a business, or more specifically bringing a new product to market. All the development costs need to be re-couped in the selling price, along with all the development costs of the products they also developed but which failed, too. Otherwise the company goes bust.

Anyway if you think they are successfully profiteering, the share price must be all set to rocket so there's a nice buying opportunity for you. You heard it here first!

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Re: Alcohol free gin

#375663

Postby UncleEbenezer » January 10th, 2021, 11:23 pm

Eboli wrote:I have three non-alcoholic drinks I turn to when needed:
Eb.

Fair enough in their own right, but not entirely satisfying for the kind of occasion when one enjoys the booze.

I keep drinks like this stuff around the place. It's not an alcohol-free version of anything, but a drink in its own right. With a kick but no alcohol.

Apart from the fact that I like it in its own right (and indeed it can mix with strong drinks from whisky to rum), it's a great thing to offer to teetotallers or drivers, that avoids them being "left out" when others are enjoying a tipple.

swill453
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Re: Alcohol free gin

#375686

Postby swill453 » January 11th, 2021, 5:10 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:I keep drinks like this stuff around the place. It's not an alcohol-free version of anything, but a drink in its own right. With a kick but no alcohol.

And a third of the price of the Gordon's AF. How do they get their R&D cost back? ;)

Scott.

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Re: Alcohol free gin

#375707

Postby bungeejumper » January 11th, 2021, 9:08 am

swill453 wrote:And a third of the price of the Gordon's AF. How do they get their R&D cost back? ;)

Have to admit that £4.99 a bottle is going to take a bit of justifying, but I'll give it a try. Thanks UE. :)

Distant memories of a girlfriend who drank only Britvic orange when in pubs. Each tiny bottle would cost about the price of a pint, and she could down them in the time it would take me to pay the barperson and sit down again.

Seriously high maintenance, then. I swiftly dumped her for a girl who drank Bacardi and coke, which cost about the same amount for each fuelling mission. An altogether more satisfying package. :D

BJ

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Re: Alcohol free gin

#375740

Postby UncleEbenezer » January 11th, 2021, 10:06 am

bungeejumper wrote:
swill453 wrote:And a third of the price of the Gordon's AF. How do they get their R&D cost back? ;)

Have to admit that £4.99 a bottle is going to take a bit of justifying, but I'll give it a try. Thanks UE. :)
BJ

It is indeed rather expensive, but don't pay £4.99 a bottle! The only place I see that price is Holland&Barrett, and I wouldn't buy there unless they have one of their regular offers like buy-two-get-one-free. Otherwise, wholefood shops both here and where I used to live are under £4, and though I don't recollect the exact price it's not £3.ninetysomething!

If you want to try them, there are other variants on that one. For the winter chill there's one called "root ginger" that's lovely hot if you can cope with the sweetness. But I wouldn't buy that for just me: it has a shorter shelf life than the others after opening - just a couple of weeks.

Distant memories of a girlfriend who drank only Britvic orange when in pubs. Each tiny bottle would cost about the price of a pint, and she could down them in the time it would take me to pay the barperson and sit down again.


I love orange juice, but always thought I'd rather drink from the loo than one of those britvic abominations!


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