The Lemon Fool

a moderator suggests ---

"The best place to push for a Total Returns board is in the Biscuit Bar."

i dont know how this works .

who would we be pushing ? TLF contributors? moderators ? site owners ?

would a poll be appropriate ?

how many people would see these posts on biscuit bar ?

could a link be posted on the other strategies boards ?

help and suggestions please.

You've got my vote.

This is a massively important issue.

Just rec everything suggesting a TR board, such as your original post, and if it gets enough recs (or supportive posts) then volia a board will probably appear.

Then - the more important but harder bit - keep it going and full of useful content and analysis ad news and etc.

regards, dspp

I don't have a problem with it, but doubt it will be used much (or correctly). Like the Growth Strategies Board I suspect it will get little traffic.

To me much of the "traffic" on a certain board could (should?) be taking place on the respective Company Share News Boards. The reality is traffic will inevitably go to the most frequently used boards. It is just a shame that most threads then drift from the original purpose and descend into squabbles at a tangent to the original post. Maybe that is just inevitable on fora such as this one.

It is particularly annoying that threads can't develop when someone (who probably doesn't care where the thread is) asks a question, which then gets answered, or at least an opinion is offered. Before long the accusation of "off-topic", or "wrong Board" are levelled, when in fact all could benefit from any thread meandering and drifting in the interests of amusement and education perhaps.

Hope I'm proved wrong.

dealtn wrote:To me much of the "traffic" on a certain board could (should?) be taking place on the respective Company Share News Boards.

There aren't individual Company Share News Boards but I get your drift. I think you are talking about Company Share news (LSE Main Market) which I occasionally find quite useful tracking back. That having been said, each individual RNS posted there is often followed with some HYP-P type discussion (if the share is/was/might be one of those), despite the OP usually suggesting that sort of discussion could take place elsewhere, which I find annoying. We don't, for example, need to know how many shares people own in their Portfolio, as it is not Company Share News. Nor is it News if someone tops up, scales down or sticks based on a recent announcement

Any TR type of board, however entitled, will no doubt eventually go down the never ending HYP-P type discussion or strictly applied moderation will need to be applied, which may not suit some posters/moderators.

Hope I'm proved wrong.

Yup.

dealtn wrote:It is particularly annoying that threads can't develop when someone (who probably doesn't care where the thread is) asks a question, which then gets answered, or at least an opinion is offered. Before long the accusation of "off-topic", or "wrong Board" are levelled, when in fact all could benefit from any thread meandering and drifting in the interests of amusement and education perhaps.

One of the advantages of the phpBB software over the TMF boards system is the ability to split threads, move around posts, etc, and, indeed, because of that capability:

stooz wrote:Going off topic is fine. You can submit a request to split a topic, creating two.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=307&p=3948&#p3948, and put that in the original rules. https://web.archive.org/web/20161120092 ... .php/rules

There certainly seem to be plenty of people who like to talk about it, but maybe not so much out of the context of poo-pooing income investment? Perhaps the "Investment Strategies" forum, which gets a reasonable amount of traffic, would suffice as a home for any discussions on the subject?

CryptoPlankton wrote:There certainly seem to be plenty of people who like to talk about it, but maybe not so much out of the context of poo-pooing income investment? Perhaps the "Investment Strategies" forum, which gets a reasonable amount of traffic, would suffice as a home for any discussions on the subject?

I agree. It seems to me that the majority of investors invest for total returns anyway. It is the default and so doesn't need its own board.

Rather it is those who deviate from that standard who have a pressing need for their own safe space.

Lootman wrote:I agree. It seems to me that the majority of investors invest for total returns anyway. It is the default and so doesn't need its own board.

Rather it is those who deviate from that standard who have a pressing need for their own safe space.

Which begs the question: why isn't that safe space respected? I don't really need a reply to that (but will probably get one!).

dealtn wrote:I don't have a problem with it, but doubt it will be used much (or correctly). Like the Growth Strategies Board I suspect it will get little traffic.

To me much of the "traffic" on a certain board could (should?) be taking place on the respective Company Share News Boards. The reality is traffic will inevitably go to the most frequently used boards. It is just a shame that most threads then drift from the original purpose and descend into squabbles at a tangent to the original post. Maybe that is just inevitable on fora such as this one.

It is particularly annoying that threads can't develop when someone (who probably doesn't care where the thread is) asks a question, which then gets answered, or at least an opinion is offered. Before long the accusation of "off-topic", or "wrong Board" are levelled, when in fact all could benefit from any thread meandering and drifting in the interests of amusement and education perhaps.

Hope I'm proved wrong.

===

i agree .

and any new board , or modified existing board must have a decent following .

dspp wrote:You've got my vote.

This is a massively important issue.

Just rec everything suggesting a TR board, such as your original post, and if it gets enough recs (or supportive posts) then volia a board will probably appear.

Then - the more important but harder bit - keep it going and full of useful content and analysis ad news and etc.

regards, dspp

=====================

many thanks.

CryptoPlankton wrote:There certainly seem to be plenty of people who like to talk about it, but maybe not so much out of the context of poo-pooing income investment? Perhaps the "Investment Strategies" forum, which gets a reasonable amount of traffic, would suffice as a home for any discussions on the subject?

========================

yes, any new/modified board must attract sufficient traffic.

using an existing board such as investment strategies may be less controversial .

maybe ...

""Stocks and Shares ISA , Choosing funds for ISA's, risk factors for funds etc
Investment strategy discussions not dealt with elsewhere , including TR total returns ""

Lootman wrote:

CryptoPlankton wrote:There certainly seem to be plenty of people who like to talk about it, but maybe not so much out of the context of poo-pooing income investment? Perhaps the "Investment Strategies" forum, which gets a reasonable amount of traffic, would suffice as a home for any discussions on the subject?

I agree. It seems to me that the majority of investors invest for total returns anyway. It is the default and so doesn't need its own board.

Rather it is those who deviate from that standard who have a pressing need for their own safe space.

===================

agree it may not need any new board , but it needs SOMETHING , at present there is a vacuum , including for those who want an income not exclusively derived from dividends.

CryptoPlankton wrote:

Lootman wrote:I agree. It seems to me that the majority of investors invest for total returns anyway. It is the default and so doesn't need its own board.

Rather it is those who deviate from that standard who have a pressing need for their own safe space.

Which begs the question: why isn't that safe space respected? I don't really need a reply to that (but will probably get one!).

======================

i dont see any new or modified board being in any way in competition with any existing board .

jackdaww wrote:agree it may not need any new board , but it needs SOMETHING

Well I, for one, am struggling to understand what you mean by total return strategies.

Total return simply means counting in all returns from an investment, and reinvesting dividends/interest/distributions. As such it's not a "strategy" but just a factor that can be applied to any investment strategy.

A growth strategy is TR if dividends are reinvested and not if not, as is a value strategy, a momentum strategy, a "family folio" strategy, etc, etc -- and, indeed, as is HYP during what its followers call "the building phase", when they reinvest the dividends.

So, I too don't see a need for a new board, nor indeed what "something" is needed, but if a TR board is created I'm sure building-phase HYPers will be happy to have somewhere else to spread their creed...

TR strategies as distinct from TR practical, So the practical board can discuss picking shares that will deliver high and growing total returns whereas the strategies is to look at methods of obtaining a high total return using direct share investments also gold, fixed interest, indexes, foreign investments, ITs etc?

kempiejon wrote:TR strategies as distinct from TR practical, So the practical board can discuss picking shares that will deliver high and growing total returns whereas the strategies is to look at methods of obtaining a high total return using direct share investments also gold, fixed interest, indexes, foreign investments, ITs etc?

=============

that would be be logical , following from high yield strategies and practical.

but two more boards ?

mc2fool wrote:

jackdaww wrote:agree it may not need any new board , but it needs SOMETHING

Well I, for one, am struggling to understand what you mean by total return strategies.

Total return simply means counting in all returns from an investment, and reinvesting dividends/interest/distributions. As such it's not a "strategy" but just a factor that can be applied to any investment strategy.

A growth strategy is TR if dividends are reinvested and not if not, as is a value strategy, a momentum strategy, a "family folio" strategy, etc, etc -- and, indeed, as is HYP during what its followers call "the building phase", when they reinvest the dividends.

So, I too don't see a need for a new board, nor indeed what "something" is needed, but if a TR board is created I'm sure building-phase HYPers will be happy to have somewhere else to spread their creed...

=========================

for me , total returns means counting capital gains plus dividends.

but dividends dont HAVE to be reinvested .

and capital gains CAN be realised , for withdrawal , if wanted .

mc2fool wrote:

jackdaww wrote:agree it may not need any new board , but it needs SOMETHING

Well I, for one, am struggling to understand what you mean by total return strategies.

Total return simply means counting in all returns from an investment, and reinvesting dividends/interest/distributions. As such it's not a "strategy" but just a factor that can be applied to any investment strategy.

I think the OP must have been a joke. Every board except the HYP one is a Total Return board. Total return is the default way that most people evaluate their investing. Honestly has anyone ever objected to the concept of total returns being discussed on one of the other boards?


GS

GoSeigen wrote:

mc2fool wrote:

jackdaww wrote:agree it may not need any new board , but it needs SOMETHING

Well I, for one, am struggling to understand what you mean by total return strategies.

Total return simply means counting in all returns from an investment, and reinvesting dividends/interest/distributions. As such it's not a "strategy" but just a factor that can be applied to any investment strategy.

I think the OP must have been a joke. Every board except the HYP one is a Total Return board. Total return is the default way that most people evaluate their investing. Honestly has anyone ever objected to the concept of total returns being discussed on one of the other boards?


GS

========================

i dont waste my time on jokes very often.

a moderator suggested the post , and there is substantial interest in the concept from many other posters.

none of the investment boards mentions the concept of total returns at all.

jackdaww wrote:
agree it may not need any new board , but it needs SOMETHING

I do think that a new separate board would help with this, to provide a clear and distinct area where people can ask for advice regarding Total-Return Strategies, or perhaps even provide information on their own individual 'total return strategies', if they feel that they could help others who might be interested?

I for one would support a separate 'Total Return - Strategies' board if this was to be one of it's objectives - similar to how the High Yield Strategies board allows those who follow a wider (non-HYP..) spectrum of 'Income-Investment Strategies' to discuss how they do that, what benefits their approach might bring, what down-sides to be aware of etc...

Put it this way - we keep hearing how many people are quite happily 'carrying out' these 'Total Return' approaches, to help provide their ongoing income, but we only ever seem to regularly hear about this on other, non-'Total-Return'-related threads, and quite often whilst interrupting discussions that are quite happily going on with regards to a completely different approach, so if part of the issue with that is that Total-Return-proponents simply want a place to air their views, then why not provide a specific board to help with that, and to both encourage that to happen, and to also perhaps help to avoid the need to interrupt other people's 'ongoing conversations' on often un-related subjects...?

The above might sound slightly negative, but it's not really meant to be, as I do acknowledge that where a distinct 'Total Return - Strategies' board doesn't currently exist to help corral those types of supportive and collective TR-related discussions, then such behaviours might actually be expected to happen, and the absence of a distinct 'Total-Return Strategies' board might actively be encouraging it to happen, so if all of the above 'birds' can be killed with the one stone of simply providing a 'Total Return - Strategies' board, then I'd fully support that idea, and would look forward to reading the collective threads that such a dedicated board might encourage...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess