My absence

[Arborbridge]

If HYP is the one true investment religion, it should have a defence to this really obvious question.

Why is this type of post tolerated? Because PYAD HYP is not really respected. If it was, it would be given its own gated board.

That's exactly what Alaric and others would like. To see their obsessional hatred of HYP satisfied by HYP-P being banished to some hinterland where no one in the outside world would ever know of its existence.

Arb.

[tikunetih]

To be fair to Gengulphus he has been consistent over the years about this. "Flouncy" is not a word I would ascribe to him. I can recall him on TMF stating a couple of times or more that he might quit. And again in the embryonic days of TLF when we were all discussing what this place should look like.

Fair enough; I don't know much about the OP or their posts so mine was a general observation of things I've seen before in various places, and if it doesn't apply here then that's fine by me.

He has a very thorough and detailed approach to topics which is valued. He holds himself to a high standard and expects those same standards from others. My sense is that he flourishes best in systems that are structured, ordered and rule-bound. He has often argued, both on TMF and TLF, for more rigorous moderation, and so his appeal for that here is not a recent revelation but rather a long-term thematic one.

That being the case then it genuinely sounds to me like he might benefit from publishing his own blog as well as posting on places like this, then perhaps any perceived limitations of this more free-form environment might not be seen as such a big deal (or as show-stoppers). ie. be able to cut it more slack because it's no longer the be-all and end-all, merely a secondary focus.

Of course there is more to his lament than just temperament. HYP-P has been a volatile place for as long as anyone can recall, which causes frustration for purists and pragmatists alike. Nobody there seems happy, although some might argue that is a sign of a decent compromise. That said this thread has become a microcosm of the very issue itself, with a wide variety of opinions on whether and what to change.

As mentioned before, I think the overly rigid structure is much of the cause, requiring a level of moderation enforcement and consequent noise that I've rarely (if ever!) seen elsewhere, distracting from the forum's raison d'etre. Acknowledging of course that my diagnosis and treatment wouldn't much suit the OP but might be more generally beneficial.

[Alaric]

To be clear, I am not a PYAD HYPer and never will be. I commented on this thread because I think this thread illustrates the failure of TLF to properly support PYAD HYPers by giving them their own gated board where they can discuss the issues that they are interested in without harassment from those who, it is clear, will never stop bothering them - and in the process clogging up the active topics list for the rest of us.

I rather agree. There should be a High Yield Shares and Strategies - Practical board where discussions about high yielding stocks can take place without an ideology getting in the way. In particular it should be possible to have a sensible discussion about why shares become High Yield without someone parroting about always selecting the highest yielding one because pyad said so and refusing to accept that such a selection method can come up with stinkers as well as reliable payers and recoveries. A paraphrase a bit, as there's also the somewhat mysterious process of dividend sustainability which isn't a dividend forecast.

[Arborbridge]

To be fair to Gengulphus he has been consistent over the years about this. "Flouncy" is not a word I would ascribe to him. I can recall him on TMF stating a couple of times or more that he might quit. And again in the embryonic days of TLF when we were all discussing what this place should look like.

He has a very thorough and detailed approach to topics which is valued. He holds himself to a high standard and expects those same standards from others. My sense is that he flourishes best in systems that are structured, ordered and rule-bound. He has often argued, both on TMF and TLF, for more rigorous moderation, and so his appeal for that here is not a recent revelation but rather a long-term thematic one.

But as you say, there is always a measure of chaos and anarchy here, as in real life. People differ in how they deal with that. Some embrace it; for others it is uncomfortable.

Of course there is more to his lament than just temperament. HYP-P has been a volatile place for as long as anyone can recall, which causes frustration for purists and pragmatists alike. Nobody there seems happy, although some might argue that is a sign of a decent compromise. That said this thread has become a microcosm of the very issue itself, with a wide variety of opinions on whether and what to change.

Your comments about Gen accord with my own view. I'm not sure about HYP-P being volatile or unhappy - that is, until some deliberate disruption started.
Which makes me realise one difference between here and TMF is the moderation. On TMF, as a new poster, I very soon learnt what was acceptable, and what wasn't. The routine was simple: one received an email about one's deleted post explainging why it was deleted. There was feedback, so one quickly lreant any understood the rules. Here, that does not happen. In fact we often don't even notice a deletion, neither can we learn from that deletion, because no one tells us why. There is no "training" of posters which would re-enforce discipline and keep the place structured in the way which TMF was. I understand why - because the mods are volunteers and do not have the time - but nevertheless, this huge defect in the system is part of the explanation for the current situation. The cure is better moderation, by which I mean stricter, and better feedback.
Without that, needling posts will always be allowed, and HYPers will be fair game for abuse.

Arb.

[moorfield]

Because PYAD HYP is not really respected.

You don't need to look very far to see that it's become a cult complete with its own sacred texts, even if it's not always clear what they are saying. Its adherents turn on critics and outsiders as evidenced by this thread.

Judean People's Front, or the People's Front of Judea ?

[IanTHughes]

Because PYAD HYP is not really respected.

You don't need to look very far to see that it's become a cult complete with its own sacred texts, even if it's not always clear what they are saying. Its adherents turn on critics and outsiders as evidenced by this thread.

Judean People's Front, or the People's Front of Judea ?

SPLITTERS!!!

[Charlottesquare]

Because PYAD HYP is not really respected.

You don't need to look very far to see that it's become a cult complete with its own sacred texts, even if it's not always clear what they are saying. Its adherents turn on critics and outsiders as evidenced by this thread.

That is maybe how you see it, fair enough, but running into a church to emblazon it with satanic symbols tends to not endear you to the worshipers within- why not just let them have their beliefs without using the emotive terms like cult etc?

[dealtn]

So 10 pages and nearly 200 posts later I expect "G" will be exiting again having had his point proven, and not to be seen again for another 6 months.

[tikunetih]

On other sites I've used, in situations where the sensible tactic of "do not feed the troll" fails to achieve its purpose, and where someone's behaviour is proving to be an agreed repeated disruption, a measured whack from the banning stick can work:-

First warn someone, then if they ignore warnings sin-bin them for a week or two, and if they ignore that then ban them for good.

Quite a lot of posters feel "invested" in their anonymous profile persona, and don't wish to lose it for good, so may be less reluctant to simply re-register under another username in order to immediately recommence their disruption...

And even if they do, most people displays obvious patterns in their posting behaviour that soon gives away their doppel, so banning them again is quite easy. Real nutters might persist for a while but unless they are full-on sociopaths they'll eventually lose heart and move on.

So my formula would be: generally looser moderation facilitated by a flatter forum/board structure that lessens the opportunity to post in the "wrong place" and lightens the load on moderators, backed up by tougher sanctioning in the few cases where some poster is really taking the p!55, requiring sin-binning and then outright bans when warranted.

[Dod101]

Which makes me realise one difference between here and TMF is the moderation. On TMF, as a new poster, I very soon learnt what was acceptable, and what wasn't. The routine was simple: one received an email about one's deleted post explainging why it was deleted. There was feedback, so one quickly lreant any understood the rules. Here, that does not happen. In fact we often don't even notice a deletion, neither can we learn from that deletion, because no one tells us why. There is no "training" of posters which would re-enforce discipline and keep the place structured in the way which TMF was. I understand why - because the mods are volunteers and do not have the time - but nevertheless, this huge defect in the system is part of the explanation for the current situation. The cure is better moderation, by which I mean stricter, and better feedback.
Without that, needling posts will always be allowed, and HYPers will be fair game for abuse.

Arb.

I rather think that Arb has hit the nail on the head. Most of my frustration here is the lack of any feedback from the moderators when they delete a post and so there is no way of knowing what the offence was or, at least, the alleged offence, often enough. Needling, or point scoring posts add nothing to any discussion and should be cut out immediately. They have no place on this sort of discussion Board.

But after the number of posts here now if we have not found a solution we never will.

Dod

[Charlottesquare]

Which makes me realise one difference between here and TMF is the moderation. On TMF, as a new poster, I very soon learnt what was acceptable, and what wasn't. The routine was simple: one received an email about one's deleted post explainging why it was deleted. There was feedback, so one quickly lreant any understood the rules. Here, that does not happen. In fact we often don't even notice a deletion, neither can we learn from that deletion, because no one tells us why. There is no "training" of posters which would re-enforce discipline and keep the place structured in the way which TMF was. I understand why - because the mods are volunteers and do not have the time - but nevertheless, this huge defect in the system is part of the explanation for the current situation. The cure is better moderation, by which I mean stricter, and better feedback.
Without that, needling posts will always be allowed, and HYPers will be fair game for abuse.

Arb.

I rather think that Arb has hit the nail on the head. Most of my frustration here is the lack of any feedback from the moderators when they delete a post and so there is no way of knowing what the offence was or, at least, the alleged offence, often enough. Needling, or point scoring posts add nothing to any discussion and should be cut out immediately. They have no place on this sort of discussion Board.

But after the number of posts here now if we have not found a solution we never will.

Dod

Afraid, looking at some of the posts on this thread, I would concur with you, it does look like a lost cause.

[stooz]

I think we have enough feedback for now. Thanks everyone