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posts being deleted

Formerly "Lemon Fool - Improve the Recipe" repurposed as Room 102 (see above).
Arborbridge
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posts being deleted

#314145

Postby Arborbridge » June 1st, 2020, 10:21 am

I received a DM from someone whose post had been deleted, and he didn't know why.
I tried to explain why I thought it had happened (though I was also in the dark), but it raises, once more, a point of procedure where TLF is not helping itself, as follows:-

When a post is deleted, the poster is not informed, and he has to contact someone to find out who deleted it and why. Frankly, most people (including me) wouldn't know where to begin with this problem. One may not even miss a post unless there's good reason to check back, let alone being able to remember the details of the text and reason out why it might have been deleted.

I understand that the problem is that the Mods are volunteers and simply do not have the time to spare. But isn't TLF missing a trick here, and making more work over the long run? The ideal situation is where a poster is contacted about a deletion, with the text and a reason for it. It would at least be a common courtesy, but far more valuable is the feedback a poster receives to educate him into the nuances of the posting rules.

Although I know it is problematic, I wonder if there is some way in which the procedure could be improved to achieve this highly desirable feedback loop which ought to avoid repeated deletions and effort.

PS I hope this is the correct board to raise this issue.
Arb.

tjh290633
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Re: posts being deleted

#314146

Postby tjh290633 » June 1st, 2020, 10:27 am

There is one solution. Mods can see who deleted a post and read the deleted post. What could be done is to replace the text of the deleted post with a mod box, saying "Off Topic post deleted", but that would remove the original text.

TJH

Arborbridge
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Re: posts being deleted

#314151

Postby Arborbridge » June 1st, 2020, 10:33 am

tjh290633 wrote:There is one solution. Mods can see who deleted a post and read the deleted post. What could be done is to replace the text of the deleted post with a mod box, saying "Off Topic post deleted", but that would remove the original text.

TJH


Good idea, and further, how about a reminder in the mod box of whom one should contact for an explanation if you need one? - or whatever the procedure is?
To some of us, deletions happen rather rarely, and I wouldn't remember how to query it, so a standard form of reminder would help. Mods could do that without a huge change, I think.

It falls short of emailing or DMing the person, but it would certainly be an improvement.

Arb.

Dod101
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Re: posts being deleted

#314164

Postby Dod101 » June 1st, 2020, 10:48 am

I will not prolong this and would not have raised it again if Arb had not, but on Saturday one of my posts was deleted , as usual without explanation and yet Arb replied to it and I was amused to see that my post was quoted by Arb. There it was in all its glory and what is more left in situ. I have not looked this morning but I had the temerity to muse that I was not sure that I could find any very attractive share and thought of putting some spare dividend income maybe into an IT. That was on the HYP-P Board - deleted for a nasty offence!

There is no doubt that some mods are trigger happy and the current non -communication system is very unsatisfactory but so be it.

Dod

Arborbridge
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Re: posts being deleted

#314191

Postby Arborbridge » June 1st, 2020, 11:44 am

Dod101 wrote: the current non -communication system is very unsatisfactory but so be it.

Dod


As I am sure you know, I'm suggest the "so be it" should be looked at again with a view to improving the feedback loop and therefore the pleasure people obtain from the boards by reducing this frustration, and hopefully improving the understanding of all posters.

I believe it would do TLF a power of good if a remedy can be found. What TJH suggested would at least be a move in the right direction.

Arb.

mc2fool
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Re: posts being deleted

#314198

Postby mc2fool » June 1st, 2020, 11:53 am

Arborbridge wrote:The ideal situation is where a poster is contacted about a deletion, with the text and a reason for it.

Well, yes, I agree, and that's what happened on TMF.

Now I'm sure someone will note that the moderators on TMF were paid staff and the ones here volunteers, but I think what's probably much more relevant is that on TMF (I'm sure, from the standard format of those emails) the process was easy and semi-automated for the mods, such that when they clicked to delete a post it'd give them a field to stick in a reason and then the system would automatically send the notification with the reason and the text of the post to the OP, and delete the post.

So, perhaps the most useful thing to do to achieve the above mentioned "ideal situation" is for someone (I'm not volunteering!) to look through all the phpBB Extensions to see if there's one that will make it similarly very easy for the TLF mods to do the same (and then, if there is one, to convince Stooz to install it....)

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Re: posts being deleted

#314199

Postby GoSeigen » June 1st, 2020, 11:56 am

Arborbridge wrote:\

When a post is deleted, the poster is not informed, and he has to contact someone to find out who deleted it and why. Frankly, most people (including me) wouldn't know where to begin with this problem. One may not even miss a post unless there's good reason to check back, let alone being able to remember the details of the text and reason out why it might have been deleted.

I understand that the problem is that the Mods are volunteers and simply do not have the time to spare. But isn't TLF missing a trick here, and making more work over the long run? The ideal situation is where a poster is contacted about a deletion, with the text and a reason for it. It would at least be a common courtesy, but far more valuable is the feedback a poster receives to educate him into the nuances of the posting rules.

Although I know it is problematic, I wonder if there is some way in which the procedure could be improved to achieve this highly desirable feedback loop which ought to avoid repeated deletions and effort.

An excellent suggestion which was mooted long ago in almost identical form and rejected long ago. I think the only way you'll see it implemented is if you offer to do the work yourself...

GS

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Re: posts being deleted

#314205

Postby idpickering » June 1st, 2020, 12:06 pm

Well said Arb. Have a rec sir. I’m that cheesed off with it I can’t be bothered to add to this topic. Arb has said what I would’ve offered in a nut shell

Ian.
Last edited by idpickering on June 1st, 2020, 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dod101
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Re: posts being deleted

#314206

Postby Dod101 » June 1st, 2020, 12:07 pm

Hi Arb

I have found with the Covid situation that there are more important things in life, such as say phoning someone or writing a card or something than worrying about TLF. That is why I say so be it.

Dod

idpickering
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Re: posts being deleted

#314217

Postby idpickering » June 1st, 2020, 12:22 pm

Dod101 wrote:Hi Arb

I have found with the Covid situation that there are more important things in life, such as say phoning someone or writing a card or something than worrying about TLF. That is why I say so be it.

Dod


Agreed Dod. Having found out yesterday that our 7th grandkid is due in dec it hilights that there is more to life than TLF.

Ian.

Dod101
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Re: posts being deleted

#314226

Postby Dod101 » June 1st, 2020, 12:37 pm

Congrats Ian. Saw my daughter and her family for the first time since early March and it was wonderful to be able to sit in my garden drinking some fizz and just chatting with them all. TLF is useful, can be entertaining and even instructive,l but fundamentally it does not really matter. It is the personalities that make it, not the sometimes petty rules and mods.

Dod

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Re: posts being deleted

#314227

Postby XFool » June 1st, 2020, 12:39 pm

Dod101 wrote:I will not prolong this and would not have raised it again if Arb had not, but on Saturday one of my posts was deleted , as usual without explanation and yet Arb replied to it and I was amused to see that my post was quoted by Arb. There it was in all its glory and what is more left in situ. I have not looked this morning but I had the temerity to muse that I was not sure that I could find any very attractive share and thought of putting some spare dividend income maybe into an IT. That was on the HYP-P Board - deleted for a nasty offence!

Think yourself lucky that, here on TLF at least, burning at the stake is no longer the first choice in punishment for the sin of heresy!

Arborbridge
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Re: posts being deleted

#314233

Postby Arborbridge » June 1st, 2020, 12:49 pm

Dod101 wrote:Hi Arb

I have found with the Covid situation that there are more important things in life, such as say phoning someone or writing a card or something than worrying about TLF. That is why I say so be it.

Dod


In a macro sense that must always be true! If we took your advice we probably would never bother to inhabit TLF at all. 8-)

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Re: posts being deleted

#314234

Postby seagles » June 1st, 2020, 12:51 pm

We could help out here by :-

1. Make sure what we are posting meets the guidelines/rules for that board.
2. Report posts that are off topic or you consider off topic, rather than replying.

Both of these would help TLF and the moderators. As you say moderators are volunteers with limited time so any help we can give must be a benefit to the whole community. Remember it is easy for a moderator to delete one post than go through all following posts to see if they have been replied to or quoted.

The mod box is a useful tool when used well and not abused by posters who then quote it and question its use.

Back to sleep now and catch a few more rays.
Last edited by Itsallaguess on June 1st, 2020, 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: spelling fix..

Arborbridge
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Re: posts being deleted

#314237

Postby Arborbridge » June 1st, 2020, 12:53 pm

GoSeigen wrote:An excellent suggestion which was mooted long ago in almost identical form and rejected long ago. I think the only way you'll see it implemented is if you offer to do the work yourself...

GS


As someone who has been the centre of controversy himself from time to time, I doubt I am the best person to fulfill this post :lol:

It seems mc2fool might be on to something though. I am sure that there must be some technical change along those which would make it easier to provide feedback, but that is way above my paygrade. I struggle with finer points of Excel.

Arb.

Arborbridge
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Re: posts being deleted

#314238

Postby Arborbridge » June 1st, 2020, 12:56 pm

seagles wrote:We could help out here by :-

1. Make sure what we are posting meets the guidelines/rules for that board.
2. Report posts that are off topic or you consider off topic, rather than replying.

Both of these would help TLF and the moderators. As you say moderators are volunteers with limited time so any help we can give must be a benefit to the whole community. Remember it is easy for a moderator to delete one post then go through all following posts to see if they have been replied to or quoted.

The mod box is a useful tool when used well and not abused by posters who then quote it and question its use.

Back to sleep now and catch a few more rays.


That much is obvious, but it isn't happening frequently enough. Partly because we are all human (who re-reads the guidelines until he can recite them?) but partly because there is no positive feeback loop, so the difficult is self-perpetuating.

Arb.

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Re: posts being deleted

#314241

Postby ReformedCharacter » June 1st, 2020, 1:06 pm

idpickering wrote:
Agreed Dod. Having found out yesterday that our 7th grandkid is due in dec it hilights that there is more to life than TLF.

Ian.

Congratulations Ian :)

RC

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Re: posts being deleted

#314244

Postby Dod101 » June 1st, 2020, 1:15 pm

seagles wrote:We could help out here by :-

1. Make sure what we are posting meets the guidelines/rules for that board.
2. Report posts that are off topic or you consider off topic, rather than replying.

Both of these would help TLF and the moderators. As you say moderators are volunteers with limited time so any help we can give must be a benefit to the whole community. Remember it is easy for a moderator to delete one post than go through all following posts to see if they have been replied to or quoted.

The mod box is a useful tool when used well and not abused by posters who then quote it and question its use.

Back to sleep now and catch a few more rays.


I think we know that but just the same.......

Dod

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Re: posts being deleted

#314288

Postby Clariman » June 1st, 2020, 3:16 pm

Moderator Message:
An explanation of moderation process from Admin/co-owner

The process for querying moderation decisions is clearly documented here viewtopic.php?f=21&t=13514

I have always said it is my preference that moderators give an explanation for removing posts but that it is not realistic for me to expect it because they are all volunteers and have busy lives.

I agree that it is not always obvious which mod removed a post but most regular users will know who generally moderates their favourite boards.

If a user asks for an explanation of a post removal I hope they would receive a reply. However Mods will not enter detailed discussions about it.
C

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Re: posts being deleted

#314669

Postby Gengulphus » June 2nd, 2020, 11:14 pm

mc2fool wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:The ideal situation is where a poster is contacted about a deletion, with the text and a reason for it.

Well, yes, I agree, and that's what happened on TMF.

Now I'm sure someone will note that the moderators on TMF were paid staff and the ones here volunteers, but I think what's probably much more relevant is that on TMF (I'm sure, from the standard format of those emails) the process was easy and semi-automated for the mods, such that when they clicked to delete a post it'd give them a field to stick in a reason and then the system would automatically send the notification with the reason and the text of the post to the OP, and delete the post.

So, perhaps the most useful thing to do to achieve the above mentioned "ideal situation" is for someone (I'm not volunteering!) to look through all the phpBB Extensions to see if there's one that will make it similarly very easy for the TLF mods to do the same (and then, if there is one, to convince Stooz to install it....)

I did do some searches through the phpBB extensions a year or two ago for any extensions that seemed to me to offer various bits of useful extra functionality for moderators, including that one, with no luck. I could of course have missed one (I didn't go anything like as far as looking through all of the hundreds of extensions one by one, working out exactly what each one was supposed to do!) and it is possible that a suitable extension has been added since then. But I don't rate the chances of there being one highly, and so I fear the only way we'll get such an extension is by developing it ourselves... I too am not volunteering!

Gengulphus


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