Please delete this thread in its entirety as I no longer wish to contribute to this board of Trolls!
I should also like to thank the moderators for acting so swiftly is complying with my request, thank you.
I had initially intended to use the words "Semi-Literate Trolls", as it appeared that the problem was the inability of certain posters to understand simple English. But of course, that was wrong, they understood perfectly, they were just being Trolls, pure and simple. In this case hell-bent on ensuring that any discussion even remotely accepting of HYP, as a valid investment strategy, with its clearly stated main aim being income production, is rubbished at each and every opportunity.
No matter that such criticism consistently relies upon strawman arguments and regularly uses complete falsehoods about what HYP is about, a strategy which, contrary to what the anti-HYP disinformation mob will tell you, is followed in some form or other, by many people, both present on this site and elsewhere. In fact, the more people that are seen to be using HYP, the more virulent the attacks become. It is pathetic! But the crowning glory yesterday, the proverbial “unmentionable in the waterpipe”, was the following gem, a post made on this the ”Biscuit Bar" board, after the two threads had already been pulled at my request:
viewtopic.php?p=318702#p318702
Just to clarify.
Is it acceptable to discuss on High Yield Shares and Strategies a comparison between a HYP designed according to "HYP Strategies" and a representative Investment Trust with similar investment objectives? That's with particular reference to the concept that comparing their respective total returns is the valid comparison and that in the current environment the HYP is likely to be suffering with dividend cancellations.
The two threads have already been pulled but some pusillanimous nobody still has the gall to suggest that such threads should of course only be discussed with a view to “Total Return” and not the true aims of HYP, “Income”. Is it really the case that some people are still that ignorant as regards the HYP Strategy? I mean it has been discussed enough on these boards, can these people not read? This of course was after I had attempted several times, in the original thread, to remind this and another poster also ignorant of HYP, that HYP is an Income Strategy, where Capital Value is at best a secondary consideration. I also explained, again several times over, that for this particular exercise, all I was interested in measuring was the Total Income produced over time. But all to no avail. it appears that when it comes to HYP, the truly blind can never be made to see! Besides, if anyone wanted to use this exercise to measure Total Return there was certainly no obstruction. The value figures were clearly presented for anyone so interested. So why is it that the anti-HYP Trolls cannot accept others just might be looking at a different result. The answer is of course that they are Trolls and that is what Trolls do!
Furthermore, the anti-HYP nonsense, so regularly espoused, is once again well to the fore:
… in the current environment the HYP is likely to be suffering with dividend cancellations.
Did this poster really fail to grasp that the comparison exercise being considered would certainly record such “dividend cuts” in all their gory details? Indeed, that was the whole point of the exercise, to compare the Income generated over time, from two different possible investment approaches, thus recording the effects on each of any dividend cuts that may occur. Also, could this poster really not see that during the first year of this comparison between HYP and CTY, the HYP had a surplus in income of some 20% when compared with CTY, surely leaving some room for any dividend cuts that the HYP may suffer? Can anyone be that blinkered? Well the answer is obviously yes! And of course, no mention is made that the Investment Trust being compared to HYP might also “suffer from dividend cuts”, oh no of course not, that would be off message, a sacrilege even! What risible nonsense!
You know, I was wrong, ”pathetic” does not even begin to describe it!
Incidentally, I placed the threads on the "High Yield Shares & Strategies – General” board for two reasons. Firstly, the new guidelines for posting on what is now the oddly named “HYP Practical (See Group Guidelines)”, as laid out here:
viewtopic.php?p=316682#p316682
contains the following restriction:
For the avoidance of doubt, the practicalities of taking a HYP approach DO NOT include …… the effectiveness and performance of HYP strategies versus other strategies
Secondly, I had thought that even non-HYPers would be interested in such a comparison exercise. I mean High Yield is High Yield, whether HYP or otherwise, surely a comparison of HYP’s ability to generate income with that of an Investment Trust would be welcome to all?
Well I believe I was right with the first reason but with the second, how naïve can one be? To be sure, I did get some thanks and even encouragement from some who I know to be non-HYPers, those with an open sense of enquiry and a desire to learn about HYP, even when it is a strategy that they have so far not taken up for whatever reason. And I do thank those posters for that. But how could I have been so stupid as to believe that the myopic Trolls that make up the virulent anti-HYP mob would leave such a thread alone? Especially when the first group of non-HYPers were showing signs of giving it some encouragement.
They set about it in the usual manner. It starts with the pretence of misunderstanding the point of the exercise, strawman argument after strawman argument. Mind you, as they never appear to have the intelligence to come up with anything new, maybe they are not pretending, only they can know for sure of course.
The second phase of attack is to “loudly” assert that such an exercise would be valid only when measured in the way determined by their own blinkered world view, as the “unmentionable in the water pipe” post amply demonstrated, once the threads had been pulled. This is the classic argument that goes something like: “OK, you can have your HYP Strategy, but only if you measure and report all progress according to our terms. And yes, you should be grateful”! Very depressing to be sharing a site with such inconsiderates, but what can one do..
So, both threads were pulled, at my request.
So where to go now, request permission for the pulled threads to be re-started on the “HYP Practical” board, notwithstanding the restriction on comparisons of HYP with other strategies? I suppose I could and who knows, maybe permission would be granted. I do believe however that that might simply lead to the demands from the anti-HYP Trolls to be allowed to witter on about other comparisons of HYP. Up would go the cry: “If you allow discussion of Investment Trusts, why not Preference Shares, Fixed Income etc etc”. Such discussions would I believe eventually lead to demands that the understanding of HYP be amended to allow investment in pretty much any instrument and on and on it would go until we would be right back to where we were before the recent change to the board guidelines and the board name. I certainly would not want to be responsible for that!
But also, why should an Investment Strategy such as HYP not be discussed on the "High Yield Strategies” board? In my view it is precisely the correct place for the two pulled threads and always was. Once again, the problem is the Trolls that discussions of HYP attracts in abundance. We already have strict guidelines and moderation of the “HYP Practical” board, will we now need the same on "High Yield Strategies”? I would not want to be responsible for that either!
The problem as I see it is not the separate boards with or without strict guidelines, it is the anti-HYP Trolls. Those who cannot accept that HYP is a perfectly valid strategy and as a result take a peculiar delight in hijacking HYP discussion threads – as far as I can tell it is only HYP that attracts such trolling – then insisting that their own blinkered and myopic view of the investment world must be included to the exclusion of the clearly stated aims of HYP. To hell with the aims of HYP, Income, the wishes of the thread’s originator, to measure income, and indeed those others perfectly happy to join in with constructive comments, they are simply told that they must accept the “correct" view! They probably believe that all who disagree just need “re-educating"! Eventually of course, the Trolls drive off all others and the thread simply dies, leaving one feeling rather disappointed that some people can be so destructive, rather than constructive, so unhelpful rather than helpful, and so downright rude. I had just such a feeling yesterday, along with my thinking: “Why the hell do I bother?”
So no, the two pulled threads are not going to be resurrected, or at least not by me! Not until such Trolling behaviour as I experienced yesterday is banished form this site. With the posters in question, I will not hold my breath!
Anyway, in a lighter vein, I should just like to add just four final points to anyone still reading this overly long message:
1) You really should get a life
2) If you are investing in an an HYP, I wish you a happy and successful future
3) If you are an anti-HYP Troll, may you suffer a sudden and uncontrollable bowel movement at a particularly embarrassing moment!
4) “So long, and thanks for all the fish”
Ian
Moderator Message:
Post edited to correct CTY's full name. -- MDW1954
Post edited to correct CTY's full name. -- MDW1954