Is LF moving away from investment discussions to more general discussions?

[richfool]

I hope this is the right board to share my thoughts on this. No doubt if it isn't, one of the Mods will move it appropriately.

I have to say that I have become increasingly disappointed by the increasing number of political discussions on LF over recent months, AND the apparent decline in the number of posts and discussions about investment matters and particularly Investment Trust matters.

To give some context to my thinking, when I was living in the Far East, I used to moderate on a forum based out there, and slowly came to realise how much of my life I was wasting, moderating petty arguments amongst provocative and argumentative expats (and "keyboard warriors"!).

Subsequent to returning to the UK, post retirement, I joined TMF's "Dividend Edge" service, which they then scrapped shortly after I joined. Though, I then found that discussions on their boards were even more helpful and more broad minded than their subscription services. Much later, I gravitated here to TLF after TMF scrapped their boards.

In the early days of TLF, I enjoyed the the more open informative and focused discussions about investment matters and my particular favourites investment trusts.

OK, initially strict HYP posts seemed to predominate TLF and arguments arose if anyone sought to discuss non-HYP matters, or got drawn into such discussions in the wrong places. (Though those seem to have mainly settled down now). I also found it frustrating that some posters, often those with at least one foot in the HYP camp, would post about Investment Trusts on the HYP share Strategies board, rather than on the appropriately named Investment Trust board, (and justify the location of such threads, because they sought or were about income). After a run in with one moderator on that subject and a discussion with Admin, I decided to let sleeping dogs lie and tried to focus on the IT boards. Though unfortunately, posts and discussions on Investment Trusts still seem to be in decline.

I can and do, top up my input by participating in discussions on threads relating to such things as green energy, renewables, wind matters, the role of technology etc., and even the odd legal matter. But it is disappointing that so many threads now seem to be in the Polite Discussions board and relate to political matters. If I want to read or participate in those sorts of topics I would pursue them on a more specialised forum, as indeed I do with Immigration matters.

I do appreciate that we have been rather too confined to our homes due to Covid, and therefore boards like TLF have provided an opportunity and outlet (even a service) for us to engage with others, at a somewhat more intellectual level, rather than just saying: " Good Morning", to our neighbours through the window, or following facebook, type of thing. ...... I do appreciate that, so thank you TLF. ..... However, if, and when, we do get out of our lockdowns, I plan, health permitting, to get out and about a lot more than I did before, and to be very discerning about what online material and social media I read or participate on.

(And yes, I do appreciate that one doesn't have to read what one doesn't want to read! )

In the meantime, I shall try and restrict my attention to the Investment Trusts boards, and de-authorise my access to the Polite Discussion boards, and see how things evolve.

A Happy Christmas and Prosperous New Year to you all.

[csearle]

I have to say that I have become increasingly disappointed by the increasing number of political discussions on LF over recent months, AND the apparent decline in the number of posts and discussions about investment matters and particularly Investment Trust matters.

I suspect that any increase in political discussion here over investment discussion is down to the rather weighty events going on around us. Leaving the EU and the pandemic spring to mind. I guess people post about what's on their mind. In order to keep the majority of the boards largely free of overtly political discussion we discourage it and ultimately ship off the worst examples to Polite Discussions where one can opt-in to read it.

I can and do, top up my input by participating in discussions on threads relating to such things as green energy, renewables, wind matters, the role of technology etc., and even the odd legal matter. But it is disappointing that so many threads now seem to be in the Polite Discussions board and relate to political matters. If I want to read or participate in those sorts of topics I would pursue them on a more specialised forum, as indeed I do with Immigration matters.

Well as you pointed out, you don't have to read them. That is why it is opt-in, to make not reading them even easier.

I expect that once the pandemic is over and our independent UK has either gone-to-pot/prospered (depending upon your outlook) the talk will return to investing. Although having said there has been plenty of discussion here about investing in relation to UK independence and the pandemic.

Chris

[mc2fool]

I have to say that I have become increasingly disappointed by the increasing number of political discussions on LF over recent months, AND the apparent decline in the number of posts and discussions about investment matters and particularly Investment Trust matters.
:
Though unfortunately, posts and discussions on Investment Trusts still seem to be in decline.

A decline in posts on the ITs & UTs board hadn't leapt out at me (although it's very likely the sort of thing that would pass me by, even though I do actively follow that board!), so I thought I'd see what stats I could dig up....

The TLF Home page (and the subsection pages) give the number of topics and posts in each board, and as it happens the Wayback Machine has a capture of this very day a year ago. https://web.archive.org/web/20191226205650/https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/index.php

Unfortunately the only previous captures to that are very soon after TLF's inception (November 2016), so there's not a lot of data to go on, but what we have is:

26 Dec 2019 507 Topics, 6037 Posts
26 Dec 2020 726 Topics, 9596 Posts

So, for the first three years of TLF the ITs & UTs board had an average of a little under 169 Topics and 2012 Posts per year, and in the last 12 months it's had 219 Topics and 3559 Posts. I have no idea if the number of posts on the (so-called!) Polite Discussions board have boomed but they appear to have done so on the ITs & UTs board!

[Dod101]

I think richfool has a point but I also think that the time of year and the dearth of much financial news has got a lot to do with it. Next month we will see the beginnings of the financial reporting season again and it should make for an interesting one, bearing in mind the last year.

Obviously, between Covid and Brexit there has been quite a bit of competing news, but as csearle has said some of this is on PD and we do not need to read that, or indeed the other stuff if we are not interested. Frankly I cannot be bothered with a lot of it since it is not going to make any difference to my life and whilst accurate information is always useful, it is difficult sometimes to differentiate between that and the opinions of what might be called barrack room 'experts'. I am not interested in speculative meanderings which I suspect a lot of the posts are.

I doubt though that the site operators can do much about it anyway.

Dod

[richfool]

All points noted, thanks.

I was really referring to the last couple of months, even weeks. Not the last couple of years.

And I'm sure Dodd is right in that there has been a dearth of investment news more recently, combined with an increased preoccupation with matters such as Brexit Trade Deals and Covid 19 (not to mention what Boris had for lunch).

[mc2fool]

I was really referring to the last couple of months, even weeks. Not the last couple of years.

My figures aren't looking at the last couple of years but rather the last 12 months, which is more or less the Brexit&Covid period, versus beforehand. Now as it happens the internet archive does have a fair number of captures for the last few months, and here's what it shows:

Date       Topics  Posts  New Ts  New Ps  Days   NTs/day  NPs/day
26-Dec-19     507   6037                                         
 6-May-20     584   7075      77    1038   132     0.58     7.86 
 6-Jul-20     625   7817      41     742    61     0.67    12.16 
 4-Aug-20     642   8249      17     432    29     0.59    14.90 
28-Sep-20     669   8589      27     340    55     0.49     6.18 
20-Oct-20     681   8840      12     251    22     0.55    11.41 
11-Nov-20     701   9105      20     265    22     0.91    12.05 
26-Dec-20     726   9596      25     491    45     0.56    10.91

So, we can see that the quiet periods for the ITs & UTs board in the last 12 months were actually in the first four months of the year, with an average of 7.86 new posts per day, and August & September with 6.18., but those haven't really been quiet in the historical sense, as the average since inception to date is 6.34 new posts per day, and 5.26 from inception to 26-Dec-19.

It's 9.72 for the last 12 months, and you can see that the last three months have been busier than that.

So, perhaps your impression is a relative one as a result of a much greater noise on other boards ...

[vrdiver]

I have to say that I have become increasingly disappointed by the increasing number of political discussions on LF over recent months,

<snip>

it is disappointing that so many threads now seem to be in the Polite Discussions board and relate to political matters. If I want to read or participate in those sorts of topics I would pursue them on a more specialised forum, as indeed I do with Immigration matters.

(my bold)

I do note you posted three times on one particular PD Brexit thread yesterday. It is difficult to reconcile your disappointment at the increasing number of posts on these topics with your posting on these very same topics...

What have I missed?

VRD

[richfool]

I was really referring to the last couple of months, even weeks. Not the last couple of years.

My figures aren't looking at the last couple of years but rather the last 12 months, which is more or less the Brexit&Covid period, versus beforehand. Now as it happens the internet archive does have a fair number of captures for the last few months, and here's what it shows:

Date       Topics  Posts  New Ts  New Ps  Days   NTs/day  NPs/day
26-Dec-19     507   6037                                         
 6-May-20     584   7075      77    1038   132     0.58     7.86 
 6-Jul-20     625   7817      41     742    61     0.67    12.16 
 4-Aug-20     642   8249      17     432    29     0.59    14.90 
28-Sep-20     669   8589      27     340    55     0.49     6.18 
20-Oct-20     681   8840      12     251    22     0.55    11.41 
11-Nov-20     701   9105      20     265    22     0.91    12.05 
26-Dec-20     726   9596      25     491    45     0.56    10.91

So, we can see that the quiet periods for the ITs & UTs board in the last 12 months were actually in the first four months of the year, with an average of 7.86 new posts per day, and August & September with 6.18., but those haven't really been quiet in the historical sense, as the average since inception to date is 6.34 new posts per day, and 5.26 from inception to 26-Dec-19.

It's 9.72 for the last 12 months, and you can see that the last three months have been busier than that.

So, perhaps your impression is a relative one as a result of a much greater noise on other boards ...

I don't know what you mean by New T's and P's are per your table.

I was referring to Investment Trust board posts.

I have sought to stimulate activity by posting reports and updates on the IT board, but felt I was fighting a losing battle over recent weeks.

[mc2fool]

I was really referring to the last couple of months, even weeks. Not the last couple of years.

My figures aren't looking at the last couple of years but rather the last 12 months, which is more or less the Brexit&Covid period, versus beforehand. Now as it happens the internet archive does have a fair number of captures for the last few months, and here's what it shows:

Date       Topics  Posts  New Ts  New Ps  Days   NTs/day  NPs/day
26-Dec-19     507   6037                                         
 6-May-20     584   7075      77    1038   132     0.58     7.86 
 6-Jul-20     625   7817      41     742    61     0.67    12.16 
 4-Aug-20     642   8249      17     432    29     0.59    14.90 
28-Sep-20     669   8589      27     340    55     0.49     6.18 
20-Oct-20     681   8840      12     251    22     0.55    11.41 
11-Nov-20     701   9105      20     265    22     0.91    12.05 
26-Dec-20     726   9596      25     491    45     0.56    10.91

So, we can see that the quiet periods for the ITs & UTs board in the last 12 months were actually in the first four months of the year, with an average of 7.86 new posts per day, and August & September with 6.18., but those haven't really been quiet in the historical sense, as the average since inception to date is 6.34 new posts per day, and 5.26 from inception to 26-Dec-19.

It's 9.72 for the last 12 months, and you can see that the last three months have been busier than that.

So, perhaps your impression is a relative one as a result of a much greater noise on other boards ...

I don't know what you mean by New T's and P's are per your table.

I was referring to Investment Trust board posts.

I have sought to stimulate activity by posting reports and updates on the IT board, but felt I was fighting a losing battle over recent weeks.

New Topics/New Posts (since the row above), and yes, those are the stats for the Investment Trusts and Unit Trusts board.

[richfool]

I have to say that I have become increasingly disappointed by the increasing number of political discussions on LF over recent months,

<snip>

it is disappointing that so many threads now seem to be in the Polite Discussions board and relate to political matters. If I want to read or participate in those sorts of topics I would pursue them on a more specialised forum, as indeed I do with Immigration matters.

(my bold)

I do note you posted three times on one particular PD Brexit thread yesterday. It is difficult to reconcile your disappointment at the increasing number of posts on these topics with your posting on these very same topics...

What have I missed?

VRD

Yes, I have, and a couple today as well. There was little else (in terms of investment posts) to respond to, and those posts (about Brexit Trade Deals) reminded me of my frustrations about getting drawn into arguments on those topics, and indeed prompted this topic.

Today I was dropping the hint that maybe the No Deal Brexit thread had run its course, as indeed has the subject of Brexit, in the hope that once those threads have petered out, some posters may turn their attention back to investment matters. Oh, and of course to celebrate that Britain has at last achieved a degree of independence again!

I haven't yet removed myself from the Polite Discussion boards access authority, but thanks for the prompt. I've just removed myself.

[jackdaww]

.

yes , i have noted this.

much of the investment talk on TLF takes place on the high yield boards , more people may be realising there is no special magic to UK high yielding equity systems , so perhaps fewer are commenting .

i dont comment much on the other investment boards because so few people look at those boards .

most of my money is now in investement trusts and ETF's spread globally .

[Clariman]

Is LF moving away from investment discussions to more general discussions? [Topic title] ...

I have to say that I have become increasingly disappointed by the increasing number of political discussions on LF over recent months, AND the apparent decline in the number of posts and discussions about investment matters and particularly Investment Trust matters.

I can reassure you, richfool, that TLF has no intention to shift in that direction, but people will discuss what they want to discuss.

As others have said, the pandemic and brexit remain major talking points out there in the real world, so will inevitably feature here too - and both have economic impact. If there are too many off topic posts or too many political posts in the wrong place, then they can be reported if appropriate.

Clariman

[Itsallaguess]

It is difficult to reconcile [richfool's] disappointment at the increasing number of posts on these topics with [richfool] posting on these very same topics...

1. Creates more brexit-related posts.

2. Starts 'Biscuit Bar' topic complaining about the number of brexit-related posts...

On the face of it, that does seem to be an odd approach to trying to solve the 'high number of brexit-related-posts' problem, doesn't it...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Gengulphus]

OK, initially strict HYP posts seemed to predominate TLF and arguments arose if anyone sought to discuss non-HYP matters, or got drawn into such discussions in the wrong places. (Though those seem to have mainly settled down now). I also found it frustrating that some posters, often those with at least one foot in the HYP camp, would post about Investment Trusts on the HYP share Strategies board, rather than on the appropriately named Investment Trust board, (and justify the location of such threads, because they sought or were about income). ...

On a point of detail, there is no such thing as the "HYP share Strategies board" - the board you're fairly clearly referring to is named "High Yield Shares & Strategies - General" (so does not mention "HYP"), and its guidance starts "The High Yield Share Strategies board is intended for wide-ranging discussions of ways to use the natural yield arising from higher-yielding equities to generate an income. Securities such as preference shares, PIBs, Investment Trusts, and ETFs etc can all be considered." (and those types of security are mostly off-topic on the HYP Practical board because they don't fall within its definition of a HYP).

The reason I bring that point of detail up is that when it comes to high-yielding investment trusts, both the "High Yield Shares & Strategies - General" board and the "Investment Trusts and Unit Trusts" board are appropriately named. Cases where two or more boards are appropriately named are just about certain to happen on any discussion board system, unless they either only have one board or have clear "no go" areas that cannot be discussed at all to separate each and every pair of subjects that can overlap. Both of those strike me as thoroughly undesirable...

So basically, I know that overlapping of the subjects of boards is a rather aggravating problem because one is either liable to miss stuff of interest that's posted to an overlapping board one doesn't monitor or to see too much stuff that one isn't interested in because one monitors a lot of boards whose main subject one isn't interested in but might overlap something one is interested in. But I'm pretty certain that problem simply cannot be cured within the confines of a hierarchical board structure such as we have on TLF, other than by cures that are worse than the disease!

So until and unless TLF adds some system which allows posts to be marked as being appropriate to more than one subject area (a well-designed 'tagging' system might do it), I'm afraid we'll all have to find ways of living with the disease... When another poster posts about high-yielding investment trusts on "High Yield Shares & Strategies - General" and you find it frustrating because you feel they 'belong' on "Investment Trusts and Unit Trusts", the source of your frustration is the hierarchical board structure of TLF, not the other poster perversely posting on an inappropriate board. Of course, the situation is different if they post about a low-yielding investment trust on "High Yield Shares & Strategies - General", or about investment trusts without regard to their yields. But that sort of thing is basically a matter of reporting to ask for appropriate moderator action - e.g. if they do it in the OP of a thread, to ask for the thread to be moved to "Investment Trusts and Unit Trusts" - or deciding to live with the imperfections of the TLF system. E.g. if it's just a brief aside within a thread about high-yield investment trusts, it will probably be more disruptive to do anything about it than just to live with it (other than keeping an eye on whether it develops into a long aside!).

I realise that this is itself an aside from the main subject of this thread - but it is a direct response to something said in the OP, and I don't intend to say anything more about that aside in this thread.

Gengulphus

[richfool]

Mc2fool, Thanks for the statistical input.

You may find that quite a lot of those posts were in fact mine, as I sought to step up posts to stimulate activity on the IT board. Some may be on Investment Strategies too, if for example they were about renewables. I have been posting fairly actively until as recently as the 20th December. So your comparison figures will of course include my posts.

Looking at the Investment Trust board, previous posts, I note I initiated 7/25 (7 of the 25 on that page), 6/25 on the second page (an average of about 25%), as well as participating on most of the other threads.

[richfool]

It is difficult to reconcile [richfool's] disappointment at the increasing number of posts on these topics with [richfool] posting on these very same topics...

1. Creates more brexit-related posts.

2. Starts 'Biscuit Bar' topic complaining about the number of brexit-related posts...

On the face of it, that does seem to be an odd approach to trying to solve the 'high number of brexit-related-posts' problem, doesn't it...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

I don't think I actually mentioned Brexit posts in my OP or title. I actually said:

But it is disappointing that so many threads now seem to be in the Polite Discussions board and relate to political matters

Yes, I like to stay out of pointless arguments, that's why I have removed myself from the PD board (again).

I said my piece on Brexit some time back, after I had observed the one-sided biased arguments. Then I withdrew. As I have now done again.

My interest, as far as these LF boards are concerned, are IT's, and the more pointless arguments I see on other boards, the more it reminds me to stay away from them, and that includes HYP - Practical.

[richfool]

Is LF moving away from investment discussions to more general discussions? [Topic title] ...

I have to say that I have become increasingly disappointed by the increasing number of political discussions on LF over recent months, AND the apparent decline in the number of posts and discussions about investment matters and particularly Investment Trust matters.

I can reassure you, richfool, that TLF has no intention to shift in that direction, but people will discuss what they want to discuss.

As others have said, the pandemic and brexit remain major talking points out there in the real world, so will inevitably feature here too - and both have economic impact. If there are too many off topic posts or too many political posts in the wrong place, then they can be reported if appropriate.

Clariman

Thanks Clariman, for the reassurance. Your points understood and agreed.

[supremetwo]

I hope this is the right board to share my thoughts on this. No doubt if it isn't, one of the Mods will move it appropriately.

I have to say that I have become increasingly disappointed by the increasing number of political discussions on LF over recent months, AND the apparent decline in the number of posts and discussions about investment matters and particularly Investment Trust matters.

Since Woodford and the split-capital IT losses, perhaps many investors have lost the inclination to invest in them.

Shutting ITs down due to poor performance is not uncommon and the highly-paid managers then get to start a new one from scratch.

[TheMotorcycleBoy]

Although I'm strictly more interested in analysis than political debate, I do find that so much of finance and economical affairs is driven by politics, so it seems logical that folk like us end up discussing these matters from time to time.

Matt

[XFool]

Although I'm strictly more interested in analysis than political debate, I do find that so much of finance and economical affairs is driven by politics, so it seems logical that folk like us end up discussing these matters from time to time.

Ah well! There's the rub. Also applies to so many matters beyond investment trusts.

Then again what exactly is the LF's definition of "politics"? (Not to mention "Politics")