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Length of Threads

Formerly "Lemon Fool - Improve the Recipe" repurposed as Room 102 (see above).
PinkDalek
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Re: Length of Threads

#380396

Postby PinkDalek » January 24th, 2021, 8:46 pm

MDW1954 wrote:... The board serves an important purpose in being a place that company-specific news can be posted, without clogging-up boards such as HYP-P. Without having talked to any other mods about this, I think that I am fairly safe in saying that we would all rather see non-essential posts directed towards Company News than, say, HYP-P or HYS-S.

If people choose to follow-up a news item with comments like "it's my biggest holding and I'm going to buy more", or whatever, then so be it.


I think such posts should be at HYP-P, where often they are, or elsewhere as appropriate, when no more than that is written with no explanation as to the whys & wherefores, when some permitted news items are also posted wherever it may be. I could write "it's one of my larger holdings & I'm going to buy more" some 50% of the time a news item is referenced but what would that achieve & in what way does it help anyone?

Not having a pop at HYP-P, which I also enjoy, but if anyone wants to read individual topics at Company Share news, to see what I mean, they'll get my drift. Sometimes it seems replies to news there are merely an opportunity to post, with a total disregard for the content of the news itself (not having a go at Dod here who, far more often than not, writes pertinent stuff & nor do I wish to name some of the main protagonists).

They clutter up that board, which helps it to lose its primary purpose.

Without having talked to any other mods about this, I think that I am fairly safe in saying that we would all rather see non-essential posts directed towards Company News than, say, HYP-P or HYS-S....


Noted.

It might be interesting if you gather their views, in the private Mod Room if needs be.

It might also be interesting if you gather the views of those who read Company Share news (LSE Main Market), which you may well be doing via this topic.

I am aware of the Guidance there which includes "Subsequent discussions can take place wherever board-specific guidelines permit, including on this board." but would far prefer it if that were beefed up to suggest such discussion should bear the particular news item in mind.

The non-essential posts, as you describe them & I'm not one to disagree, clutter up the board. Whereas, if they were on other boards, most of those die a death after a while. Whereas the Company Share news (LSE Main Market) topics are company specific & they effectively get in the way for ever & a day (& yes, I for one do look back as well as forwards, that's one of the ways of learning from one's mistakes).

Which is where we came in with Dod's OP!

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Re: Length of Threads

#380397

Postby Dod101 » January 24th, 2021, 8:47 pm

No matter. I will leave it there and ignore the Tesla thread as I have done since its start.

Dod

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Re: Length of Threads

#380398

Postby PinkDalek » January 24th, 2021, 8:53 pm

tjh290633 wrote:... One problem is the number of long quotes followed by a one-line response. A bit more posting discipline might help.


Some feel the need to quote in entirety, as they don't wish to be seen to be quoting out of context. I don't think that's needed but there's never going to be a perfect solution.

Others do it for ease, as they either are unable to provide extracts or can't be, what's the preferred TLF phrase, Pink Marshmallowed?

With whole thread not available, it really is a pain in my mind scrolling past such repetition.

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Re: Length of Threads

#380401

Postby csearle » January 24th, 2021, 9:18 pm

And some seem to post just for the hell of it. They quote "news" even if it really isn't actually news. Sometimes they add "I hold these as part of my portfolio" (or similar) as if anyone truly cares.

I personally think that one should only cite something if it provokes some thought vis-a-vis one's investments. Then that thought should, usefully, be expressed.

Just posting something already in the public domain is essentially just replicating an existing service and adds nothing at all.

Chris

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Re: Length of Threads

#380405

Postby MDW1954 » January 24th, 2021, 9:36 pm

PinkDalek wrote:
MDW1954 wrote:... The board serves an important purpose in being a place that company-specific news can be posted, without clogging-up boards such as HYP-P. Without having talked to any other mods about this, I think that I am fairly safe in saying that we would all rather see non-essential posts directed towards Company News than, say, HYP-P or HYS-S.

If people choose to follow-up a news item with comments like "it's my biggest holding and I'm going to buy more", or whatever, then so be it.


I think such posts should be at HYP-P, where often they are, or elsewhere as appropriate, when no more than that is written with no explanation as to the whys & wherefores, when some permitted news items are also posted wherever it may be. I could write "it's one of my larger holdings & I'm going to buy more" some 50% of the time a news item is referenced but what would that achieve & in what way does it help anyone?

Not having a pop at HYP-P, which I also enjoy, but if anyone wants to read individual topics at Company Share news, to see what I mean, they'll get my drift. Sometimes it seems replies to news there are merely an opportunity to post, with a total disregard for the content of the news itself (not having a go at Dod here who, far more often than not, writes pertinent stuff & nor do I wish to name some of the main protagonists).


PD,

Fellow-mod csearle, I think, has answered this. Would I wish that some (if not most) of what gets posted on Company News didn't get posted? Yes. But who am I to make definitive determinations on such matters? I'd say the same about most of the drivel that gets posted in The Sun.

MDW1954

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Re: Length of Threads

#380408

Postby MDW1954 » January 24th, 2021, 9:39 pm

PinkDalek wrote:
Without having talked to any other mods about this, I think that I am fairly safe in saying that we would all rather see non-essential posts directed towards Company News than, say, HYP-P or HYS-S....


Noted.

It might be interesting if you gather their views, in the private Mod Room if needs be.



PD,

The mods who moderate HYP-P and (I think) HYS-S are already posting on this thread, concurrently, and are saying nothing different.

MDW1954

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Re: Length of Threads

#380426

Postby PinkDalek » January 24th, 2021, 10:43 pm

MDW1954 wrote:
PinkDalek wrote:
Without having talked to any other mods about this, I think that I am fairly safe in saying that we would all rather see non-essential posts directed towards Company News than, say, HYP-P or HYS-S....


Noted.

It might be interesting if you gather their views, in the private Mod Room if needs be.



PD,

The mods who moderate HYP-P and (I think) HYS-S are already posting on this thread, concurrently, and are saying nothing different.

MDW1954


Thanks, I meant specifically Company Share news (aka CSn without the Y)! Yes, of course you’d prefer the drivel on boards you don’t Mod.

Btw, I don’t read what csearle wrote in the same way you seem to have. See his most recent. Is he suggesting drivel should go on CSn or people should avoid posting it?

Don’t worry on my behalf though. It is a boring Sunday stuck at home. I’ll leave the topic now.

Edit: I missed your split reply. I think we are in agreement.

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Re: Length of Threads

#380431

Postby tjh290633 » January 24th, 2021, 11:00 pm

csearle wrote:Just posting something already in the public domain is essentially just replicating an existing service and adds nothing at all.

Chris

I find that it is useful if someone posts, either on the Company Share News thread or on the HYP-P board, links to RNS posts of dividend announcements for companies which are not in either the FTSE100 or FTSE250. I am thinking specifically at the moment of Marstons and South32, which I often miss.

I always look at Investegate at Breakfast time for such articles, as most companies post their results or dividend announcements at 7am, GSK being a notable example. Those outside the FTSE350 can easily be missed. If somebody has put a link on the appropriate Share News thread, I pick it up in "Unread Posts".

This sort of thing is being helpful to others. It only needs a link and a few words.

TJH

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Re: Length of Threads

#380440

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » January 25th, 2021, 12:22 am

I beginning to see the irony of this thread :roll:

Dobby's ironing his hands again :lol:

AiY

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Re: Length of Threads

#380463

Postby csearle » January 25th, 2021, 7:44 am

tjh290633 wrote:
csearle wrote:Just posting something already in the public domain is essentially just replicating an existing service and adds nothing at all.

Chris
I find that it is useful if someone posts, either on the Company Share News thread or on the HYP-P board, links to RNS posts of dividend announcements for companies which are not in either the FTSE100 or FTSE250.
Yes I too quite like the dividend announcements, especially, on HYP-P. It can be a bit like panning for gold though. C.

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Re: Length of Threads

#380481

Postby Gengulphus » January 25th, 2021, 9:10 am

MDW1954 wrote:
PinkDalek wrote:
MDW1954 wrote:... The board serves an important purpose in being a place that company-specific news can be posted, without clogging-up boards such as HYP-P. Without having talked to any other mods about this, I think that I am fairly safe in saying that we would all rather see non-essential posts directed towards Company News than, say, HYP-P or HYS-S.

If people choose to follow-up a news item with comments like "it's my biggest holding and I'm going to buy more", or whatever, then so be it.


I think such posts should be at HYP-P, where often they are, or elsewhere as appropriate, when no more than that is written with no explanation as to the whys & wherefores, when some permitted news items are also posted wherever it may be. I could write "it's one of my larger holdings & I'm going to buy more" some 50% of the time a news item is referenced but what would that achieve & in what way does it help anyone?

Not having a pop at HYP-P, which I also enjoy, but if anyone wants to read individual topics at Company Share news, to see what I mean, they'll get my drift. Sometimes it seems replies to news there are merely an opportunity to post, with a total disregard for the content of the news itself (not having a go at Dod here who, far more often than not, writes pertinent stuff & nor do I wish to name some of the main protagonists).

Fellow-mod csearle, I think, has answered this. Would I wish that some (if not most) of what gets posted on Company News didn't get posted? Yes. But who am I to make definitive determinations on such matters? I'd say the same about most of the drivel that gets posted in The Sun.

The answer to that second question depends on whether you're a moderator of Company News (you may have said at some point, but if so, the answer hasn't stuck in my mind). If you are, along with your fellow Company News moderators, you are the people to make definitive determinations on such matters, subject only to possibly being overruled by stooz and Clariman as the site owners - just as you would be about Sun drivel if you were a Sun editor. If you're not, then you're not in a position to make definitive determinations on them - but as you are one of the TLF moderators and it's known that the TLF moderators discuss moderation issues privately among themselves, you are in a better position to influence such matters than ordinary TLF users.

Not saying there's anything wrong about those arrangements - on the contrary, I think something along those lines is the only sensible way to run TLF. But "who am I to do X?" questions from someone who is in a role that gives them the power to do X or at least better influence than most over those who have that power strike me as a bit disingenuous...

Gengulphus

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Re: Length of Threads

#380505

Postby MDW1954 » January 25th, 2021, 10:24 am

PinkDalek wrote:Thanks, I meant specifically Company Share news (aka CSn without the Y)! Yes, of course you’d prefer the drivel on boards you don’t Mod.

Btw, I don’t read what csearle wrote in the same way you seem to have. See his most recent. Is he suggesting drivel should go on CSn or people should avoid posting it?

Don’t worry on my behalf though. It is a boring Sunday stuck at home. I’ll leave the topic now.

Edit: I missed your split reply. I think we are in agreement.


PD,

For the record, in my post, the word "drivel" did not refer to content posted on the boards, as I thought my words made clear.

You are free to use the word how you wish.

MDW1954

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Re: Length of Threads

#380512

Postby MDW1954 » January 25th, 2021, 10:34 am

Gengulphus wrote:The answer to that second question depends on whether you're a moderator of Company News (you may have said at some point, but if so, the answer hasn't stuck in my mind). If you are, along with your fellow Company News moderators, you are the people to make definitive determinations on such matters, subject only to possibly being overruled by stooz and Clariman as the site owners - just as you would be about Sun drivel if you were a Sun editor. If you're not, then you're not in a position to make definitive determinations on them - but as you are one of the TLF moderators and it's known that the TLF moderators discuss moderation issues privately among themselves, you are in a better position to influence such matters than ordinary TLF users.

Not saying there's anything wrong about those arrangements - on the contrary, I think something along those lines is the only sensible way to run TLF. But "who am I to do X?" questions from someone who is in a role that gives them the power to do X or at least better influence than most over those who have that power strike me as a bit disingenuous...

Gengulphus


Not disingenuous at all. Posters are encouraged to post there with company-specific items that aren't necessarily deemed appropriate elsewhere. In the case of HYP-P, for example, the board's guidance is quite specific on when to post on Company News instead of HYP-P. Should a poster then post on Company News, the item posted may appear quite insignificant to many people, me included. The outcome of a drug trial, for example.

But the key point is that it wouldn't be off-topic, or defamatory, or ad hominem, or anything else upon which a moderator could act.

So to suggest that I could do so is disingenuous.

MDW1954

PS For the record, I do have moderation rights on Company News.

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Re: Length of Threads

#380559

Postby Gengulphus » January 25th, 2021, 12:04 pm

With a bit of context restored to make it clear what the "second question" I was talking about is:
MDW1954 wrote:
Gengulphus wrote:
MDW1954 wrote:... Would I wish that some (if not most) of what gets posted on Company News didn't get posted? Yes. But who am I to make definitive determinations on such matters? I'd say the same about most of the drivel that gets posted in The Sun.

The answer to that second question depends on whether you're a moderator of Company News (you may have said at some point, but if so, the answer hasn't stuck in my mind). If you are, along with your fellow Company News moderators, you are the people to make definitive determinations on such matters, subject only to possibly being overruled by stooz and Clariman as the site owners - just as you would be about Sun drivel if you were a Sun editor. If you're not, then you're not in a position to make definitive determinations on them - but as you are one of the TLF moderators and it's known that the TLF moderators discuss moderation issues privately among themselves, you are in a better position to influence such matters than ordinary TLF users.

Not saying there's anything wrong about those arrangements - on the contrary, I think something along those lines is the only sensible way to run TLF. But "who am I to do X?" questions from someone who is in a role that gives them the power to do X or at least better influence than most over those who have that power strike me as a bit disingenuous...

Not disingenuous at all. Posters are encouraged to post there with company-specific items that aren't necessarily deemed appropriate elsewhere. In the case of HYP-P, for example, the board's guidance is quite specific on when to post on Company News instead of HYP-P. ...

Really? Care to quote the passage in viewtopic.php?f=15&t=23846 that tells people to post on Company News instead of HYP-P?

MDW1954 wrote:... Should a poster then post on Company News, the item posted may appear quite insignificant to many people, me included. The outcome of a drug trial, for example.

But the key point is that it wouldn't be off-topic, or defamatory, or ad hominem, or anything else upon which a moderator could act.

So to suggest that I could do so is disingenuous.

MDW1954

PS For the record, I do have moderation rights on Company News.

So as a moderator of Company News, you have made a determination that the posts you're talking about are appropriate on that board (which in particular involves a determination about whether they're off-topic or not). It's in the very nature of making a determination about a question that the person making that determination could make it either way - just as a Sun editor can determine either that an article doesn't appear in the Sun or that it does.

I have no objection to those determinations being made - but since you are a moderator of Company News, the answer to your question "who am I to make definitive determinations on such matters?" is obviously "you're a moderator of the board concerned, and making such determinations is part of that role". Asking a "who am I to do X?" question rhetorically without supplying the answer that's known to oneself suggests that one is not anyone to do X...

Gengulphus

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Re: Length of Threads

#380577

Postby MDW1954 » January 25th, 2021, 12:38 pm

Gengulphus wrote:Really? Care to quote the passage in viewtopic.php?f=15&t=23846 that tells people to post on Company News instead of HYP-P?

Gengulphus


You are correct. In the latest version of the guidance, the wording below was omitted. I will look at adding it back.

Should I post a news-related item on HYP Practical or the Company News board?

If your company news-related post concerns major pieces of news, then post on HYP Practical. This particularly applies when the news in question may prompt readers to query the advisability of the company in question as a HYP share. So HYP Practical is the place to post details of annual results, interim results, profit warnings, dividend cuts or increases, and anything that may obviously and directly impact the income that a HYPer can expect. Depending on their nature, corporate actions may also be relevant. The overall intent of this guidance is to ensure that only news items that are likely to impact HYP owners in a practical way should be posted and discussed on the HYP Practical board.

If your news-related item doesn't fall into this category, it's probably best on the Company News board. Here, it may also be seen by readers who don't tend to visit the HYP Practical board.

Note: it is perfectly in order to post a brief message to the HYP Practical board saying that a news item has been posted on the Company News board. If this is done, it is important to include a link to the Company news item, and to make sure that the HYP Practical post's title makes it clear that the news is posted on the Company News board, where further discussion should take place. Some indication of the news in the title is especially helpful. An example might be: "AstraZeneca: stage III drug trial results posted on Company News."

Does an item being posted on Company News preclude it being discussed on HYP Practical? No, of course not, although in most cases this will be unlikely, given the reduced relevance of such news-items to the practical running of a HYP. The correct way to do this is create a thread title that makes any HYP implications clear, link to the either the original RNS or (better still) the Company News thread, and then explain why this particular news item may have HYP implications.

DO NOT baldly post the RNS or Company News link without explaining any HYP relevance. An example might be: "AstraZeneca: could the recent stage III drug trial results accelerate dividend growth?" Again, the smell-test should always be to ask 'Is this news item likely to impact HYP owners in a practical way?', and if that question cannot be answered positively, then Company News is the most appropriate board for discussion of it.


MDW1954

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Re: Length of Threads

#380621

Postby Gengulphus » January 25th, 2021, 2:53 pm

MDW1954 wrote:
Gengulphus wrote:Really? Care to quote the passage in viewtopic.php?f=15&t=23846 that tells people to post on Company News instead of HYP-P?

You are correct. In the latest version of the guidance, the wording below was omitted. I will look at adding it back.

Should I post a news-related item on HYP Practical or the Company News board?

If your company news-related post concerns major pieces of news, then post on HYP Practical. This particularly applies when the news in question may prompt readers to query the advisability of the company in question as a HYP share. So HYP Practical is the place to post details of annual results, interim results, profit warnings, dividend cuts or increases, and anything that may obviously and directly impact the income that a HYPer can expect. Depending on their nature, corporate actions may also be relevant. The overall intent of this guidance is to ensure that only news items that are likely to impact HYP owners in a practical way should be posted and discussed on the HYP Practical board.

If your news-related item doesn't fall into this category, it's probably best on the Company News board. Here, it may also be seen by readers who don't tend to visit the HYP Practical board.

Note: it is perfectly in order to post a brief message to the HYP Practical board saying that a news item has been posted on the Company News board. If this is done, it is important to include a link to the Company news item, and to make sure that the HYP Practical post's title makes it clear that the news is posted on the Company News board, where further discussion should take place. Some indication of the news in the title is especially helpful. An example might be: "AstraZeneca: stage III drug trial results posted on Company News."

Does an item being posted on Company News preclude it being discussed on HYP Practical? No, of course not, although in most cases this will be unlikely, given the reduced relevance of such news-items to the practical running of a HYP. The correct way to do this is create a thread title that makes any HYP implications clear, link to the either the original RNS or (better still) the Company News thread, and then explain why this particular news item may have HYP implications.

DO NOT baldly post the RNS or Company News link without explaining any HYP relevance. An example might be: "AstraZeneca: could the recent stage III drug trial results accelerate dividend growth?" Again, the smell-test should always be to ask 'Is this news item likely to impact HYP owners in a practical way?', and if that question cannot be answered positively, then Company News is the most appropriate board for discussion of it.

As an addition to the HYP Practical guidance post as it stands, it's probably a bit lengthy - it would add about 50% to the length of that post. Having said that, though, I'm uncertain how it ought to be shrunk - and indeed, I can think of an addition that might be desirable to it, namely to say explicitly that if your post is neither "likely to impact HYP owners in a practical way" nor "news-related", it doesn't really belong on either board! For instance, posts which only say that company X is in the poster's HYP (though it doesn't take much extra to make them qualify for HYP Practical - e.g. a stated opinion that the share is (or is not) currently a good HYP purchase would do that, preferably with at least brief reasons for that opinion).

So I'm not certain how to reconcile the wish for the guidance post to be short with the wish for it to cover commonly-encountered situations. A possible approach that strikes me is to start it with a concise 'rules' section that gives the rules that people must follow (or should follow in almost all circumstances), and then follow with a 'guidance' (about how to follow the rules) section which more expansively covers material like the above. All with a "this is what you really need to know" message for the 'rules' section and a "you may well find this helpful if you're having trouble following the rules" message for the 'guidance' section.

Gengulphus

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Re: Length of Threads

#380637

Postby PinkDalek » January 25th, 2021, 3:49 pm

MDW1954 wrote:
Gengulphus wrote:Really? Care to quote the passage in viewtopic.php?f=15&t=23846 that tells people to post on Company News instead of HYP-P?

Gengulphus


You are correct. In the latest version of the guidance, the wording below was omitted. I will look at adding it back.

Should I post a news-related item on HYP Practical or the Company News board?

If your company news-related post concerns major pieces of news, then post on HYP Practical. ...


A couple of points on that if I may:

1. The second board's title is Company Share news (ignoring the part in parentheses).

2. That Guidance (amended or otherwise) would appear on HYP Practical whereas the Guidance at viewtopic.php?f=94&t=16288 isn't so restrictive and appears to permit all manner of discussion saying "Subsequent discussions can take place wherever board-specific guidelines permit, including on this board". Would the addition of "news in that sentence make it better, as in "Subsequent discussions concerning "news" items can take place wherever board-specific guidelines permit, including on this board"?

3. What I find confusing is the very start of your presently omitted guidance, fully acknowledging where one would be when reading it:

Should I post a news-related item on HYP Practical or the Company News board?

If your company news-related post concerns major pieces of news, then post on HYP Practical. ... So HYP Practical is the place to post details of annual results, ... If your news-related item doesn't fall into this category, it's probably best on the Company News board.


I may read that and think I'm being told I can't post major pieces of news at Company Share news, which I know isn't the case.

I'm probably not making sense, so I'll (again) leave it there.

For the record, in my post, the word "drivel" did not refer to content posted on the boards, as I thought my words made clear.


Yes, I was (partially) jesting.

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Re: Length of Threads

#380661

Postby TUK020 » January 25th, 2021, 5:17 pm

mc2fool wrote:
swill453 wrote:
Itsallaguess wrote:As someone who's interested in the Musk side of things, but not generally interested in the news-related stuff, I can see both side of those benefits with the two specific examples you've given...

Can someone explain what "the Musk side of things" might be? Is this related to Elon Musk, of Tesla? Why would this result in such a long thread?

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=76&t=5037 :D

The length is a lot due to the ongoing enthusiasm for the topic by the OP there, who has posted to date 2143 posts in the thread, some two-thirds of their total contribution to TLF...


Don't dismantle the playpen, or you will wind up with sand being poured liberally into the works of other threads.

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Re: Length of Threads

#380669

Postby mc2fool » January 25th, 2021, 6:00 pm

TUK020 wrote:
mc2fool wrote:
swill453 wrote:Can someone explain what "the Musk side of things" might be? Is this related to Elon Musk, of Tesla? Why would this result in such a long thread?

Start here: viewtopic.php?f=76&t=5037 :D

The length is a lot due to the ongoing enthusiasm for the topic by the OP there, who has posted to date 2143 posts in the thread, some two-thirds of their total contribution to TLF...


Don't dismantle the playpen, or you will wind up with sand being poured liberally into the works of other threads.

?

I don't know why you've made that comment in response to my reply to swill453. I didn't suggest dismantling anything, nor indeed offer any opinion on the matter at hand. I was just factually answering swill453's question about what was being referred to by "the Musk side of things".

TUK020
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Re: Length of Threads

#380671

Postby TUK020 » January 25th, 2021, 6:04 pm

mc2fool wrote:
TUK020 wrote:
mc2fool wrote:Start here: viewtopic.php?f=76&t=5037 :D

The length is a lot due to the ongoing enthusiasm for the topic by the OP there, who has posted to date 2143 posts in the thread, some two-thirds of their total contribution to TLF...


Don't dismantle the playpen, or you will wind up with sand being poured liberally into the works of other threads.

?

I don't know why you've made that comment in response to my reply to swill453. I didn't suggest dismantling anything, nor indeed offer any opinion on the matter at hand. I was just factually answering swill453's question about what was being referred to by "the Musk side of things".


mc2fool
Apologies for the confusion I have caused, I was using a nugget of data provided by your post, in order to suggest a course of action relating to the thread in general, not responding to an opinion advanced by yourself
tuk020


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