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I’m leaving - sadly after many years

Formerly "Lemon Fool - Improve the Recipe" repurposed as Room 102 (see above).
Steveam
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I’m leaving - sadly after many years

#445636

Postby Steveam » September 27th, 2021, 3:21 pm

I raised a report about a comment which I found offensive and racist. No action was taken (I’m assuming the moderator didn’t agree with my view) - fair enough. I then posted to explain that I found the comment offensive and racist - I also mentioned that I’d reported the post and no action had been taken. My post has been removed and I’ve received no comment or explanation. I assume the moderator found that I was “arguing” about the original decision.

I’ve enjoyed the Fool/LemonFool but I’m off. I thank those people who’ve helped me along the way.

Best wishes,

Steve

MDW1954
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Re: I’m leaving - sadly after many years

#445650

Postby MDW1954 » September 27th, 2021, 4:00 pm

Steve,

I am the moderator in question. Your report was closed so as to prevent other mods needlessly looking at it.

The post in question has been reported to the admins, who will take further action as they see appropriate.

I won't say more, as the "Improve the Fool" board is not for the discussion of individual moderation decisions. In the meantime, I'll soft-delete the post in question, which I should probably have done anyway until it could be admin-reviewed.

Please don't go.

MDW1954

Moderator Message:
Postscript: when I went to soft-delete the post just now, the text in question had already been removed, along with the other problematic text. --MDW1954

doolally
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Re: I’m leaving - sadly after many years

#445653

Postby doolally » September 27th, 2021, 4:02 pm

Steveam wrote:I raised a report about a comment which I found offensive and racist. No action was taken (I’m assuming the moderator didn’t agree with my view) - fair enough. I then posted to explain that I found the comment offensive and racist - I also mentioned that I’d reported the post and no action had been taken. My post has been removed and I’ve received no comment or explanation. I assume the moderator found that I was “arguing” about the original decision.

I’ve enjoyed the Fool/LemonFool but I’m off. I thank those people who’ve helped me along the way.

Best wishes,

Steve

I can think of all sorts of reasons why you should review your decision
...you are SADLY leaving
...you've enjoyed TLF
Maybe the (unpaid, part-time) mod is very busy and hasn't (yet) had time to explain
Maybe the mod is just human and having a bad day
Maybe your criticism of the mod decision was on a board where mod discussion is not allowed
Maybe you are having a bad day and your reaction was extreme.

Chill, reflect and come back. It's not worth getting upset about these things. Don't take it too personally. All the benefits of this site totally outweigh the minor problems

doolally

Lootman
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Re: I’m leaving - sadly after many years

#445660

Postby Lootman » September 27th, 2021, 4:39 pm

Hard to assess the decisions made given that the original post that caused all this has been removed. I didn't see it so cannot comment on it. I would say two things however.

Firstly I think I have only ever reported a post that wasn't one of mine once, and that post was removed. But if I was in the habit of reporting the posts of others then I would not expect a 100% success rate. And particularly if my motive for reporting a post was less than impeccable (not saying yours wasn't).

Secondly the whole issue of what is and is not racist can be highly subjective. For instance I have seen claims here that voting for Brexit was racist. Or that wanting to control immigration is racist. Then we have the deputy leader of Labour claiming that Tories are "racist". These assertions seem clearly overstated. Not all allegations of racism hold up under scrutiny. And just because I might be offended by something doesn't necessarily mean that it should have offended me.

Perhaps what we need to help the Mods is for TLF to adopt a working definition of racism. A parallel would be the IHRA definition of antisemitism, which has been widely adopted, even by the Labour Party. If we had a similar working definition of racism here then it would be clearer which allegations of racism are genuine and valid, and which are exaggerated and performative.

Clariman
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Re: I’m leaving - sadly after many years

#445666

Postby Clariman » September 27th, 2021, 4:58 pm

Moderator Message:
Clariman. I am in the process of investigating this. No further comments please

Clariman
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Re: I’m leaving - sadly after many years

#445675

Postby Clariman » September 27th, 2021, 5:33 pm

Steveam wrote:I raised a report about a comment which I found offensive and racist. No action was taken (I’m assuming the moderator didn’t agree with my view) - fair enough. I then posted to explain that I found the comment offensive and racist - I also mentioned that I’d reported the post and no action had been taken. My post has been removed and I’ve received no comment or explanation. I assume the moderator found that I was “arguing” about the original decision.

Dear Steveam

I am really sorry about this and can only apologise for the lack of communication and the apparent lack of action. As you have acknowledged you have made some assumptions about the thoughts and motivations of the site's moderators and their actions (or inactions). They are reasonable assumptions to have made but a close analysis of the log files and time-stamps shows me this is not the case, but before addressing that I want to make something crystal clear. This site abhors any racism, sexism, or stereotyping of people and their actions of beliefs. This is embedded in the rules of the site and was recently restated very clearly just 12 days ago: viewtopic.php?f=101&t=31229

My investigation of the actions and timings show the following occurred.
  • You reported a post at 9.42 AM this morning
  • At 1.50 PM a volunteer Moderator closed the report and manually escalated the report to the Admin team (consisting of only 3 people)
  • At 2.56 PM an Admin edited the post you reported - presumably to remove the offensive wording
  • At 4.09 PM an Admin appears to have edited the post again

However, before an Admin could get to it, you posted on the thread to complain about the inaction. Another user issued a Problem Report because you had discussed Moderation in the wrong place and a Moderator subsequently removed your post. The appropriate method of raising Moderation issues is described here viewtopic.php?f=101&t=31312 .

None of these individual actions were wrong, but collectively they led you to feel ignored and understandably led to you making some assumptions about people's motivation for ignoring you. In reality, the issue had only been escalated and was eventually addressed.

Now there are lessons to be learned here for the Admin and Moderation team. Ideally we should deal with things promptly where possible. Where something has been escalated it would be better to either leave the report open or to inform the problem-reporter that things have been escalated.

I hope you find this reassuring and decide to stay.

Clariman

Clariman
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Re: I’m leaving - sadly after many years

#445676

Postby Clariman » September 27th, 2021, 5:34 pm

Moderator Message:
Steveam has the right to reply here, but it might be better continued via Private Message. However, I would ask others to desist from posting

Steveam
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Re: I’m leaving - sadly after many years

#445679

Postby Steveam » September 27th, 2021, 5:48 pm

I thank everyone and especially the mods. No further comment from me. I will continue to make my small and occassional posts on the Lemon Fool.

Best wishes,

Steve

mc2fool
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Re: I’m leaving - sadly after many years

#445687

Postby mc2fool » September 27th, 2021, 6:10 pm

Clariman wrote:At 1.50 PM a volunteer Moderator closed the report and manually escalated the report to the Admin team (consisting of only 3 people)

May I suggest that to close a report that is being escalated is a mistaken approach that can pretty much only lead to the impression the OP got ("No action was taken (I’m assuming the moderator didn’t agree with my view)").

Best for the moderator to leave it open and for the Admin team to close it, after they'd actioned whatever their decision is.

Clariman
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Re: I’m leaving - sadly after many years

#445689

Postby Clariman » September 27th, 2021, 6:13 pm

mc2fool wrote:
Clariman wrote:At 1.50 PM a volunteer Moderator closed the report and manually escalated the report to the Admin team (consisting of only 3 people)

May I suggest that to close a report that is being escalated is a mistaken approach that can pretty much only lead to the impression the OP got ("No action was taken (I’m assuming the moderator didn’t agree with my view)").

Best for the moderator to leave it open and for the Admin team to close it, after they'd actioned whatever their decision is.

Indeed. That's why I said that very thing in my post 8-) ;)

Now there are lessons to be learned here for the Admin and Moderation team. Ideally we should deal with things promptly where possible. Where something has been escalated it would be better to either leave the report open or to inform the problem-reporter that things have been escalated.


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