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State of the TLF Nation: Users taking breaks and other 'disengagement' discussions

Formerly "Lemon Fool - Improve the Recipe" repurposed as Room 102 (see above).
SteMiS
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Re: State of the TLF Nation: Users taking breaks and other 'disengagement' discussions

#451465

Postby SteMiS » October 19th, 2021, 11:19 pm

Clariman wrote:
SteMiS wrote:I suspect if CAN was abolished then you'd see more politics in other areas and maybe make the life of moderators harder. I'm guessing a certain leeway is allowed in CAN that wouldn't be in other areas because, well, people know what they are getting in CAN (a sort of caveat emptor, or more accurately, cavete intrantes).

The downside to that of course is that the nature of CAN can lead to the expression of some quite bigotted and borderline racist views. As someone whose social life involves people from all over the world, I'll make no apology for being quite intolerant of that.

There is NO leeway to allow racist views on CAN. You are intolerant of it. So am I. Please report racist posts.

I wasn't suggesting the leeway related to racist posts but to the 'heat' of a discussion.

XFool
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Re: State of the TLF Nation: Users taking breaks and other 'disengagement' discussions

#451466

Postby XFool » October 19th, 2021, 11:20 pm

Clariman wrote:
JohnB wrote:Mailing a moderator who's position you disagree with is not the same as discussing the issue with the group. And its hardly a discussion when the power balance is so uneven. We individually have little chance of getting moderation policy changed, especially if we don't know others think the same.

When I see bad moderation, I doubt its worth querying it.

There is a system in place. If people don't want to use it, that is up to them. Don't knock it if you haven't tried it.

I can't really be bothered any more either. It feels a bit like crossing the road - some get knocked down, some don't.

IME - Best guide was summed up in an earlier post of mine (gone!): "Gentlemen! You can't have fun in here, it's the Lemon Fool." ;)
Last edited by XFool on October 19th, 2021, 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SteMiS
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Re: State of the TLF Nation: Users taking breaks and other 'disengagement' discussions

#451467

Postby SteMiS » October 19th, 2021, 11:22 pm

Lootman wrote:The important thing in my view is not to repeat the mistakes of TMF, which led to self-destruction.

If you are referring to the discussion boards on TMF, my understanding is that their demise was a commercial decision; they simply weren't able to monetise them (enough at least to cover the cost of running them).

Clariman
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Re: State of the TLF Nation: Users taking breaks and other 'disengagement' discussions

#451468

Postby Clariman » October 19th, 2021, 11:22 pm

XFool wrote:
Clariman wrote:
JohnB wrote:Mailing a moderator who's position you disagree with is not the same as discussing the issue with the group. And its hardly a discussion when the power balance is so uneven. We individually have little chance of getting moderation policy changed, especially if we don't know others think the same.

When I see bad moderation, I doubt its worth querying it.

There is a system in place. If people don't want to use it, that is up to them. Don't knock it if you haven't tried it.

I can't really be bothered any more either. It feels a bit like crossing the road - some get knocked down, some don't.

Use the crossing and wait for the green man - then you are highly unlikely ever to get knocked down ;)

mc2fool
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Re: State of the TLF Nation: Users taking breaks and other 'disengagement' discussions

#451469

Postby mc2fool » October 19th, 2021, 11:26 pm

Clariman wrote:Can we park this part of the discussion here, please? I suspect it could continue with you both wanting the last word.

Thanks

Actually I'd be interested in hearing a reply from you to my original post. Do you/have you ever kicked anyone off? And what is/would be your decision making and procedures for doing so? (Wing it, case-by-case is an acceptable answer! ;))

It has to be the ultimate sanction but I don't pretend it's easy or certainly don't think that you'd rush to do so lightly -- and frankly, I don't envy you.

XFool
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Re: State of the TLF Nation: Users taking breaks and other 'disengagement' discussions

#451470

Postby XFool » October 19th, 2021, 11:26 pm

Clariman wrote:
XFool wrote:
Clariman wrote:There is a system in place. If people don't want to use it, that is up to them. Don't knock it if you haven't tried it.

I can't really be bothered any more either. It feels a bit like crossing the road - some get knocked down, some don't.

Use the crossing and wait for the green man - then you are highly unlikely ever to get knocked down ;)

You don't live in North London, do you? :!:

XFool
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Re: State of the TLF Nation: Users taking breaks and other 'disengagement' discussions

#451472

Postby XFool » October 19th, 2021, 11:32 pm

joey wrote:There are other examples I could provide but really my point is that ideological differences are not the real issue; instead it is the way that some people conduct themselves.

Yes... and also the way people sometimes (mis)interpret other people? Also the way different people react to small innocuous things. Or at least, they are small innocuous things to some; huge big things (apparently) to others!

joey wrote:As Dod said in the now locked thread, some folk should try to view themselves as others view them.

Um...

That could be... challenging?

Lootman
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Re: State of the TLF Nation: Users taking breaks and other 'disengagement' discussions

#451474

Postby Lootman » October 19th, 2021, 11:46 pm

mc2fool wrote:
Clariman wrote:Can we park this part of the discussion here, please? I suspect it could continue with you both wanting the last word.

Actually I'd be interested in hearing a reply from you to my original post. Do you/have you ever kicked anyone off? And what is/would be your decision making and procedures for doing so?

I do not wish to break Clariman's prohibition on dragging this out. But my sense is that TLF bans obvious scammers from TLF. But is reluctant to ban popular and enthusiastic contributors even if they sometimes stray across the line.

Whereas TMF banned some of their most popular contributors simply for not reflecting the corporate image that TMF wished to convey; obviously not an issue here.

TMF also had "favourites", which I learned the hard way when I challenged the conventional thinking on TMF's "Dealing with Debt" board. The big poobah there, who as far as I know did not make it over here, promoted a house view that debtors should repay their debts. When I challenged that viewpoint I was banned from posting there because TMF wanted to maintain a corporate image.

Not cool.

SteMiS wrote:
Lootman wrote:The important thing in my view is not to repeat the mistakes of TMF, which led to self-destruction.

If you are referring to the discussion boards on TMF, my understanding is that their demise was a commercial decision; they simply weren't able to monetise them (enough at least to cover the cost of running them).

I know but part of the reason the TMF boards could not turn a profit was that they were over-moderated. They had one full-time moderator (who was later fired) plus two contractors. Must have cost 6 figures a year. Nuts.

jackdaww
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Re: State of the TLF Nation: Users taking breaks and other 'disengagement' discussions

#451499

Postby jackdaww » October 20th, 2021, 7:59 am

.

i have no wish to disengage .

i find TLF extremely beneficial , including the non finance boards.

there are some very knowledgeable , experienced , and not least , helpful people on here .

:D

88V8
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Re: State of the TLF Nation: Users taking breaks and other 'disengagement' discussions

#451559

Postby 88V8 » October 20th, 2021, 11:14 am

Clariman wrote:
JohnB wrote:
Clariman wrote:It is a shame when users leave and it is frustrating for the site's owners when there has been no discussion about any real or perceived issues with the site.

Perhaps its because that much of the dissatisfaction is about moderation, and we are explicitly not allowed to discuss that.

As I have made clear countless times, if anyone has any issues with moderation, they can contact me at any time. Strangely, despite the clamour to discuss moderation nobody seems bothered enough about it to PM me.

I have no problems with moderation.
A few posts amended, fewer deleted. One that peeved me, but just one.
I suspect those who have 'problems' mainly deserve to.

V8

Clitheroekid
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Re: State of the TLF Nation: Users taking breaks and other 'disengagement' discussions

#451782

Postby Clitheroekid » October 20th, 2021, 8:46 pm

I'll add my name to the `mourners' for IAAG. I always felt that his posts, despite a slightly over-enthusiastic use of italics (only joking if you're reading IAAG!) were consistently some of the best on the board.

I've also had the odd PM with him, and he strikes me as a Good Egg, so I'm sorry he's been feeling a bit scrambled of late. (Mind you, he's also a Liverpool supporter, so Good Eggism is probably a given!)

I have to say that I can't understand his view that there has been increasing acrimony to the point that he's had enough, but that's probably because I don't visit as many boards as he did. Strangely, for an investment site, I now visit relatively few of the investment boards. After not far off 50 years of investing, during which I've had some spectacular (and wholly undeserved) successes and some spectacular (and equally undeserved) failures I've reluctantly concluded that investment returns have as much to do with luck and random chance as diligent research.

However, on the boards that I do regularly visit I've seen hardly any real aggression or hostility. Yes, people disagree, and there are a few posters (you know who you are!) who are like a dog with a bone and tediously drag arguments on ad infinitum, determined to have the last word, but it's very easy just to leave them to it. When they realise that the only audience left is each other the thread usually dies very quickly.

But on most boards that I frequent, for example, Legal and Beerpig's Snug, the tone seems very convivial, and in many ways far better than the TMF boards. Many of the posts in t'Snug have been remarkably interesting, and have opened my eyes to things I never knew about. LIkewise, both the DAK board and the Computers board have provided me with a lot of really practical help, even though I'm invariably a receiver of advice rather than a contributor. I, and I'm sure many others, really appreciate the time so freely given by the contributors on those and other boards.

So for my own part I think TLF has achieved something quite remarkable, in that it has provided a very effective replacement for TMF. Like many others, I was truly shocked and saddened by the demise of the TMF boards, and it never occurred to me that it could or would ever be so brilliantly replaced. The fact that it has is, of course, largely due to the people who post here, but we all need to bear in mind that we wouldn't be here at all if it hadn't been for those who set it up and have since given their time to running and moderating it.

So keep up the good work, and don't let the tail of the odd irritating poster wag the LF dog. And IAAG if you're reading this please come back soon, it's not the same without you! ;)

csearle
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Re: State of the TLF Nation: Users taking breaks and other 'disengagement' discussions

#451788

Postby csearle » October 20th, 2021, 9:08 pm

Clitheroekid wrote:I'll add my name to the `mourners' for IAAG. I always felt that his posts, despite a slightly over-enthusiastic use of italics (only joking if you're reading IAAG!) were consistently some of the best on the board.

I've also had the odd PM with him, and he strikes me as a Good Egg, so I'm sorry he's been feeling a bit scrambled of late. (Mind you, he's also a Liverpool supporter, so Good Eggism is probably a given!)

I have to say that I can't understand his view that there has been increasing acrimony to the point that he's had enough, but that's probably because I don't visit as many boards as he did. Strangely, for an investment site, I now visit relatively few of the investment boards. After not far off 50 years of investing, during which I've had some spectacular (and wholly undeserved) successes and some spectacular (and equally undeserved) failures I've reluctantly concluded that investment returns have as much to do with luck and random chance as diligent research.

However, on the boards that I do regularly visit I've seen hardly any real aggression or hostility. Yes, people disagree, and there are a few posters (you know who you are!) who are like a dog with a bone and tediously drag arguments on ad infinitum, determined to have the last word, but it's very easy just to leave them to it. When they realise that the only audience left is each other the thread usually dies very quickly.

But on most boards that I frequent, for example, Legal and Beerpig's Snug, the tone seems very convivial, and in many ways far better than the TMF boards. Many of the posts in t'Snug have been remarkably interesting, and have opened my eyes to things I never knew about. LIkewise, both the DAK board and the Computers board have provided me with a lot of really practical help, even though I'm invariably a receiver of advice rather than a contributor. I, and I'm sure many others, really appreciate the time so freely given by the contributors on those and other boards.

So for my own part I think TLF has achieved something quite remarkable, in that it has provided a very effective replacement for TMF. Like many others, I was truly shocked and saddened by the demise of the TMF boards, and it never occurred to me that it could or would ever be so brilliantly replaced. The fact that it has is, of course, largely due to the people who post here, but we all need to bear in mind that we wouldn't be here at all if it hadn't been for those who set it up and have since given their time to running and moderating it.

So keep up the good work, and don't let the tail of the odd irritating poster wag the LF dog. And IAAG if you're reading this please come back soon, it's not the same without you! ;)
That is the most perfect post. Thank you. C.

MDW1954
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Re: State of the TLF Nation: Users taking breaks and other 'disengagement' discussions

#451802

Postby MDW1954 » October 20th, 2021, 9:42 pm

csearle wrote:That is the most perfect post. Thank you. C.


Echoed by me, too. A thoroughly good egg.

MDW1954


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