The Lemon Fool

Pyad and DiamondEcho have posted their opposition to refs.

Got me thinking.

Can the BB software allow someone to choose "recs is off" and once done the rec option and rec count is not visible to that user?

Meatyfool..

The 'Best of the boards' was invaluable to casual readers like myself before it was effectively castrated when so many boards were moved to Fringe. I ran across all kinds of weird and wonderful things...and it was a great incentive to write something interesting. But of course the problems that started with rec tarting on LOOTP and in other places did inevitably lead to banishment of boards...eventually taken to excess imo.

So it would probably be a mistake just to import the old recs system without giving a bit of thought as to how it might work to bring interesting posts to the front without domination by any particular board.

K

kininvie wrote:The 'Best of the boards' was invaluable to casual readers like myself before it was effectively castrated when so many boards were moved to Fringe. I ran across all kinds of weird and wonderful things...and it was a great incentive to write something interesting. But of course the problems that started with rec tarting on LOOTP and in other places did inevitably lead to banishment of boards...eventually taken to excess imo.

So it would probably be a mistake just to import the old recs system without giving a bit of thought as to how it might work to bring interesting posts to the front without domination by any particular board.

I'd be interested to know if this new board software included the ability, or if there's an add-on that could deliver it, where particular users could be stopped from receiving recs for their posts?

I think if we were able to do that, it would act as a discouragement to those abusing the system, whilst giving benefit to those who behave.

I think this was one of the huge areas where TMF could have been improved, so hopefully Stooz and Clariman will be able to find a route to success that enables us all to benefit from the added value that a rec-system gives to boards like this, especially in helping to deliver things like the Best of Board, but also be able to use tools that weren't available on the old TMF software, so that it can be moderated where it's regularly abused.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

I thought that recs were very important. They draw you on to boards you didn't frequent, and obviously help you pick out all sorts of different reading material amongst the chatter. And that's one thing that kept me going to tmf. So there's a conundrum there.

Martin (was "cou", a name I never liked much, and too short for here.)

phpBB does not have the capability "out of the box" to have recs/likes or any other type of flagged post. However, there are several extensions that add the functionality, but you have to check that they are compatible with the version installed and are any good.

They are obviously another feature that needs to be updated regularly, so I can understand if stooz doesn't want to support extensions, but I think recs are an important part of what made the Fool forums.

I use a different forum that has Like, Useful, Thanks, Funny and Agree flags that can be applied to any post, and this works well there, but I can still see a simple "like" option being the option to go for here.

One of the reasons for having "dislike" flags is that it allows for crowd moderation. Another forum I use (arsTechnica) has a +/- option for each post, posts that are obviously rubbish get downvoted to oblivion and it works very well for obviously crap posts that contribute nothing positive, but, there is the dark side where posts can be downvoted just for saying things that the majority don't want to hear (eg ars readership is quite pro-Hillary and anti-Brexit, so post anything saying anything good about Trump or Brexit, even if sensible and encouraging discussion and it will get lots of downvotes). So I'm not convinced "dislikes" are good.

Slashdot did the ultimates moderation system - every so often you'd get points to allocate to posts, and you could vote up or down with a variety of flags. But everyone got to vote on the votes cast by these moderators to "keep them honest" - moderators who got bad meta-moderation results didn't get points in the future. But I don't think phpBB has anything like that!


"Best of" - I doubt this is part of any "likes" extension, so someone would have to add it as a custom thing. Lets get recs in place first before we go there.

I think it important that we have some sort of Recs system.
Two reasons:

First, how else can one judge the perceived merits of a post? If we approve, what do we do?
If we all post something like Super. Spiffing. Excellent. Top hole. Absolutely. Bang on. Wizzo. The thread would soon be full of clutter. And if we don't show our approval, how does anyone know what to think? This is mainly a finance site after all, the merits or otherwise of what's posted here, well, it's important in our real worlds.

Secondly, Recs identify those who have a special place in the community.
Sure, we all know Clitheroe, Gengulphus, Pyad, Luni, but new members - we always need new members - don't know one poster from another.

The Fool software was clunky, but in terms of enabling one to zoom in on posts that were worth reading, and posters who are worth following, it was pretty good.

I very much hope something can be done here.

V8

My view is also that, despite the downsides, likes/recs are helpful for identifying valuable posts and potentially compiling a best-of board.

I strongly dislike down-votes. They often seem to be used for what verges on, or actually is, bullying; in my view they have no place on a forum that is trying to carry forward the spirit we had on the Fool UK forums.

- Julian

While recs clearly have a downside on boards where there is a polarised debate and everyone recs a post they agree with, regardless of it's inherent quality (I suspect one reason why TMF eventually banned the fringe boards from 'best of'), they are potentially still valuable for identifying good quality posts (and posters) especially on the investment and factual boards.

However they work best when there is a mechanism to easily sort and view highly recced stuff either on a board or on the site and by time frame.

If it's doable then I'd hope it will be done in the fullness of time but lets get this thing walking before we try and run!

Just thinking about this, no idea whether it is doable, but what about limiting the number of recs from any one individual per month, say 20. It'd perhaps make people use them more sparingly. And/or, if a board is getting into rec-tarting trouble, rather than banishing it to a fringe, just reduce the value of each rec on that board to 0.75 or 0.5 when counting it toward BoB.
Assuming of course that there'll be a BoB.

I think high quality posts from knowledgable posters was one of the key features of the fool. I think the rec system, the crowns and best of all encouraged that behavior and TLF would be a poorer place without it. Either way, now we have control over the software, we can adjust what we want going forward. If we get stuffed full of rec tarts and/or polarized views or group-think we can always remove the feature again. Nothing is set in stone.

I have mixed feelings on recs. I like them as a way to thank a poster when I have nothing new to add that would justify a followup post, or to flag something that I consider really useful. But at the same time, I saw at TMF some posts would attract lots of recs for nothing more than a wisecrack, and one that only had meaning in the context of a long and perhaps futile thread.

Also "best of" was hopelessly biased towards a few boards with a culture of lots of recs. Minority boards with few regulars to recommend something couldn't hope for a look-in even for best-of-the-best posts.

If lemonfool introduces recs, I'd like to see both upvotes and downvotes. The latter don't have to hide posts. The recs system for comments at theregister.co.uk is one I like.

The problem with recs is that they can be used for the wrong purposes - such as flame wars, rec circles and rec-tarting.

What we really want from recs is to bring good posts to a wider attention via BoB.

A possible solution is to stop people from being able to rec anonymously. Make it possible to see who has recced a post. People will then want to protect their reputations by reccing responsibly.

I also think there should be a limit on recs - perhaps 3 per day per poster.

My own view is it's an irrelevance - better to have quality posters posting stuff than worrying about recs.

Recs are useful in my opinion - they help me get to things that are interesting, fast. If possible please implement some form of rec system.
regards, dspp

UncleEbenezer wrote:I'd like to see both upvotes and downvotes. The latter don't have to hide posts.

Negative recs were tried on a forum I moderated, but it encouraged people to be vindictive and just caused squabbles about recs rather than on-topic posts.

I think on MF there were some members who would be rec'd whatever they posted. On the banking board which I frequented most anything by OBR would get a high rec count. I'm saying nothing against OBR but I think the rec button was being hit as an instinctive reaction in recognition of his general work for people in the real world rather than the merits of each and every post. Like others I think this sort of thing had a tendency to distort a true 'best of' listing. That said, some way of highlighting spectacularly good posts from boards I would not normal go to regularly would be much appreciated.

In honesty I doubt the answer is a matter of technology, rather one of culture. If everyone on LemonFool behaves in a way that respects the motive for recommending posts it will work, if they don't it won't. So maybe the answer is to try and instill that cultural aspect early in the life of LemonFool.

Terry.

For me recs (no apostrophe) are important as a way of knowing where to go in unfamiliar boards and to hit potentially useful posts. Aggregated they help new users know who the key posters are, which in an anonymous world is really important.

Sure there are problems, but with moderation and work it should be possible to make them mostly useful

SB

The BoB is very useful - usually the first thing I look at. It's an imperfect way of seeing where the 'board peaks ' are , but works OK if the political/'soft' boards are not eligible for inclusion
(RE: Rec's - perhaps an apostrophe IS required to indicate missing letters ? - Rec[ommendation]s . Is Pedants' Corner up and running yet ?)

AleisterCrowley wrote:(RE: Rec's - perhaps an apostrophe IS required to indicate missing letters ? - Rec[ommendation]s . Is Pedants' Corner up and running yet ?)

+1

How does BoB work? I have been looking at options, and BoB's seem to be all time ever. I would assume it would be preferred to be a last 7 days option?