home made sourdough

[kempiejon]

I walk 10 minutes and back again to the supermarket to buy cheese, amongst other things, but on a miserable rainy day like today I am engaged in making some home made goats cheese. It'll be ready to eat in about 7 days and will taste all the more amazing because I created it

Do you have goats? I have made cheese a few times including goats' but I buy my milk from the supermarket.
I also occasionally make butter, especially if the sticker fairy has dropped off a few pots of short dated cream, in fact dragging this back on topic, one bacon sandwich I had was with bacon I had cured myself, with butter I'd churned, spread on a loaf I'd baked and augmented with my own home grown tomato chutney. The smugness certainly came through with each bite.

[redsturgeon]

This is the open crumb that I referred to earlier.

[Urbandreamer]

This is the open crumb that I referred to earlier.

Ok, how do you achieve that? That was what I was aiming for with my high hydration experiments.

[redsturgeon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvVMffluBsw&t=319s

This method will get you an open crumb.

[redsturgeon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JQm2n4aVZc

This is a slightly better version of the coil folding technique that I use for the second and subsequent folds.

[Urbandreamer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvVMffluBsw&t=319s

This method will get you an open crumb.

Thanks for that. Lamination's is what I've been missing. I tried coil folding, but I obviously wasn't doing it right, or enough. Because the gluten just didn't develop enough for me.

However I'll try exactly the method from the video, but with a 75% rather than 70% hydration. I'll let you know how I get on, but it will probably be a couple of days, If I'm going to prove in the Fridge as she did.

[servodude]

I walk five minutes to the bakery, buy bread, walk five minutes home and eat bread.
On my salary this 10 minutes plus the cost of the bread is a rational allocation of my resources.

I walk 10 minutes and back again to the supermarket to buy cheese, amongst other things, but on a miserable rainy day like today I am engaged in making some home made goats cheese. It'll be ready to eat in about 7 days and will taste all the more amazing because I created it

I got put on to making sourdough by a client during covid, he gave me the bones of the recipe (and I got the starter from a neighbour) till this point I was only familiar with simple two rise loafs, pizza and pasta doughs.. standard impatient stuff

Doing the folds and stretches is a really good excuse to get out of your chair and give you time to think about stuff (and we would be explicit about this - as in "OK... try this and see if it works, if it doesn't I'll see what I can come up with during the next fold")
Obviously that doesn't help if your salary is dependent on you being physically in any particular location but if you're paid for the outcome of your thinking and have the freedom to do that where you choose I'd recommend giving it a try
- it's certainly better than just staring at a problem, doesn't need to involve a tomato shapped kitchen timer and you get a loaf at the end of it

[servodude]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvVMffluBsw&t=319s

This method will get you an open crumb.

Thanks for that. Lamination's is what I've been missing. I tried coil folding, but I obviously wasn't doing it right, or enough. Because the gluten just didn't develop enough for me.

However I'll try exactly the method from the video, but with a 75% rather than 70% hydration. I'll let you know how I get on, but it will probably be a couple of days, If I'm going to prove in the Fridge as she did.

One of the things I had to learn was not to rely on timing and go with feel (with some days being much warmer than others everything changes and I have this book to fall back on when I do have a disaster https://www.amazon.co.uk/raise-loaf-fall-love-sourdough/dp/1786275783)

it's all about getting the amount of working right
too much kneeding and it goes like cake
not enough folding and it's like a brick

It's hard to explain but you'll know when it's working by feel as you stretch it during the folds - the change in resistance from the gluten becomes quite marked and then you need to resist the temptation to over work it

Haven't really had a disaster for a while but I've never managed a fancy ear like John's

[Urbandreamer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvVMffluBsw&t=319s

This method will get you an open crumb.

Worked a treat.
Coil folding, not so much.

However I'm now less convinced the issue is coil folding V kneading. I now suspecting that it's the amount of rye flour that I'm using.

After this loaf I'll try a simple white sourdough to check that idea out.

Another problem that I had is that the dough stuck to the tea towel, despite the amount of flour that I used as a release agent. I suspect that is because the tea towel was lining a glass bowel and became damp during overnight proving in the fridge.

Another thing I'll try is sourdough crumpets. After all, I'm maintaining a starter anyway.

[Dicky99]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvVMffluBsw&t=319s

This method will get you an open crumb.

To 500g of flour she added 350g of water and with the added moisture of the starter is over 70% hydration.
I tried following this but with yeast and 70% but not starter. I was fine doing the folds with damp hands but when I turned it out onto the work surface it became a sticky nightmare, sticking to hands and gluing itself to the work surface. I couldn't do anything with it so I ended up having to use my scraper to scrape it back into the bowl and kneeding in a lot of extra flour in an effort to recover it but even having done so I couldn't get the surface tension needed to form a boule I normally get with 65% hydration, it's just spreading like a ciabatta.
My best hope is that it will be a very passable ciabatta.

[redsturgeon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvVMffluBsw&t=319s

This method will get you an open crumb.

To 500g of flour she added 350g of water and with the added moisture of the starter is over 70% hydration.
I tried following this but with yeast and 70% but not starter. I was fine doing the folds with damp hands but when I turned it out onto the work surface it became a sticky nightmare, sticking to hands and gluing itself to the work surface. I couldn't do anything with it so I ended up having to use my scraper to scrape it back into the bowl and kneeding in a lot of extra flour in an effort to recover it but even having done so I couldn't get the surface tension needed to form a boule I normally get with 65% hydration, it's just spreading like a ciabatta.
My best hope is that it will be a very passable ciabatta.

Yes,the technique for handling the "sticky mess" takes a bit of practice. Its all about building surface tension and trying not to touch the sticky bits too much.

I'd make sure you have the surface well floured when you turn it out and then the trick is to reach underneath to pull the floured bits up and over the sticky bits. It's difficult to describe but that's the essence of it, trying to contain the sticky mess within a less sticky "skin".

It is honestly worth persevering and even when you have had a few successes there will always be setbacks.

It's the journey!

[Urbandreamer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvVMffluBsw&t=319s

This method will get you an open crumb.

To 500g of flour she added 350g of water and with the added moisture of the starter is over 70% hydration.
I tried following this but with yeast and 70% but not starter. I was fine doing the folds with damp hands but when I turned it out onto the work surface it became a sticky nightmare, sticking to hands and gluing itself to the work surface. I couldn't do anything with it so I ended up having to use my scraper to scrape it back into the bowl and kneeding in a lot of extra flour in an effort to recover it but even having done so I couldn't get the surface tension needed to form a boule I normally get with 65% hydration, it's just spreading like a ciabatta.
My best hope is that it will be a very passable ciabatta.

After the kind link to the video about lamination can I offer one on handling sticky dough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWN9mxR_iXI&t=863s

I don't manage the bit about never letting go of the dough, but can confirm that it works.

Alternatively wet the work surface from time to time and use the scraper to gather the dough from time to time when kneading. A damp surface will also stop the dough sticking when laminating.

BTW, my white sourdough is bulk fermenting in the fridge and I've got crumpet batter starting to bubble. I'm obviously doing something wrong with starters though. The internet is full of uses for starter discards, but I never have any discards! I had to make a special starter for the crumpets as there is no way that I'll have 250g of waste starter.

[redsturgeon]

I tried the 5 minute baguette thing with my sourdough

[Dicky99]

To 500g of flour she added 350g of water and with the added moisture of the starter is over 70% hydration.
I tried following this but with yeast and 70% but not starter. I was fine doing the folds with damp hands but when I turned it out onto the work surface it became a sticky nightmare, sticking to hands and gluing itself to the work surface. I couldn't do anything with it so I ended up having to use my scraper to scrape it back into the bowl and kneeding in a lot of extra flour in an effort to recover it but even having done so I couldn't get the surface tension needed to form a boule I normally get with 65% hydration, it's just spreading like a ciabatta.
My best hope is that it will be a very passable ciabatta.

Yes,the technique for handling the "sticky mess" takes a bit of practice. Its all about building surface tension and trying not to touch the sticky bits too much.

I'd make sure you have the surface well floured when you turn it out and then the trick is to reach underneath to pull the floured bits up and over the sticky bits. It's difficult to describe but that's the essence of it, trying to contain the sticky mess within a less sticky "skin".

It is honestly worth persevering and even when you have had a few successes there will always be setbacks.

It's the journey!

It's no wonder the French call it "Pain" but after all the faffing about to recover the sloppy mess and it spreading horizontally on the baking sheet it didn't turn out too bad at all because it got quite a decent vertical spring in the oven.

[UncleEbenezer]

I tried the 5 minute baguette thing with my sourdough

Good thing I've just eaten, 'cos otherwise you could've made me very hungry with that!

Is it an illusion that your quantities are bread for one but rest-of-meal for more than one person?

[redsturgeon]

I tried the 5 minute baguette thing with my sourdough

Good thing I've just eaten, 'cos otherwise you could've made me very hungry with that!

Is it an illusion that your quantities are bread for one but rest-of-meal for more than one person?

Very perceptive Mr Holmes. It was a meal for two and some bread had already been taken and put on plates. It was delicious though. The heritage tomatoes were excellent too though eyewateringly expensive from our local "how much can we can away with charging for this" deli.

[redsturgeon]

It's no wonder the French call it "Pain" but after all the faffing about to recover the sloppy mess and it spreading horizontally on the baking sheet it didn't turn out too bad at all because it got quite a decent vertical spring in the oven.

Pleased to hear it. I hope you continue to persevere with taming the sticky mess. It is worth it!

John

[redsturgeon]

Just made these following this recipe.

It took a bloody long time, I hope they are worth it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYmJVPTugRA

Very relaxing video too.

John

[redsturgeon]

The all important "crumb shot"

[servodude]

The all important "crumb shot"

Nice bit of rec-tarting
do you do anything regards steam in the oven?