Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to kiloran,Anonymous,Howard,Gostevie,JuanDB, for Donating to support the site

Titan nav

Sophisticated and complex high-risk tax-sensitive investments in small companies: handle with care
barchid
Lemon Slice
Posts: 295
Joined: November 30th, 2018, 2:18 am
Has thanked: 112 times
Been thanked: 139 times

Titan nav

#397180

Postby barchid » March 19th, 2021, 4:58 pm

Titan nav up sharply today, shares up over 10% this pm since the announcement.
Possibly they have marked up the value Cazoo but I saw no details on the rns that I read.

barchid
Lemon Slice
Posts: 295
Joined: November 30th, 2018, 2:18 am
Has thanked: 112 times
Been thanked: 139 times

Re: Titan nav

#406518

Postby barchid » April 23rd, 2021, 4:50 pm

Titan are on a real tear at the moment, from a nav in mid December of 89.1p to 104p end March (after the Cazoo news), to 105.5p which is also xd 3p in April. The 105.5p xd nav was announced almost at market close today so it would suggest that some other companies are now joining in their party. Certainly 89.1p to effectively 108.5p in 4 months is very good going.
Perhaps their early stage investments work better than the "safer" vct's under the new rules ?
Time alone will tell.

barchid
Lemon Slice
Posts: 295
Joined: November 30th, 2018, 2:18 am
Has thanked: 112 times
Been thanked: 139 times

Re: Titan nav

#406966

Postby barchid » April 26th, 2021, 8:34 am

Titan shares up 5% today at market opening, clearly catching up with Friday's NAV news, most encouraging for their many holders.

127tolmers
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 227
Joined: November 22nd, 2016, 7:32 pm
Been thanked: 161 times

Re: Titan nav

#408404

Postby 127tolmers » April 30th, 2021, 8:44 pm

https://www.investegate.co.uk/octopus-t ... 2714H2055/

Big buyback today, almost £10m.

Octopus Titan VCT plc announces that on 30 April 2021 the Company purchased for cancellation 9,818,652 Ordinary shares at a price of 100.8p per share.

barchid
Lemon Slice
Posts: 295
Joined: November 30th, 2018, 2:18 am
Has thanked: 112 times
Been thanked: 139 times

Re: Titan nav

#408586

Postby barchid » May 1st, 2021, 2:23 pm

Tolmers
I noticed that, & when one considers that Pembroke also did a very large one this month, to me this is most encouraging.
I realise Octopus know how to compensate themselves in their vct's but to be fair they have generally produced good performance so I don't begrudge them, and if other vct managers could step up their buy backs it would help investors a lot. Unicorn, of course, have no buy back policy at all which is not investor friendly & puts me off making any further investments in their vct after my first purchase a few years ago, stupidly being blissfully ignorant of their non policy.
Amati finals came out last night, very impressive and they do actively buy back too.

onslow
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 114
Joined: September 9th, 2017, 4:29 pm
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 41 times

Re: Titan nav

#408698

Postby onslow » May 2nd, 2021, 8:47 am

Does anyone know the history of why Unicorn doesnt do buybacks? Has it been raised with the board previously?

Seems like a no brainer?

scotia
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2817
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:43 pm
Has thanked: 1403 times
Been thanked: 1297 times

Re: Titan nav

#408740

Postby scotia » May 2nd, 2021, 12:03 pm

onslow wrote:Does anyone know the history of why Unicorn doesnt do buybacks? Has it been raised with the board previously?

Seems like a no brainer?

Unicorn does carry out some buy backs - but not at a generous level.
Looking at recent RNS:-
On 10th March they bought back shares at 198p, when the NAV at 3rd March was 227.8p
On 11th February they bought back shares at 186p when the NAV at 2nd February was 215p

They also have a history of modest dividends - apparently preferring to maintain or increase the NAV.

UncleEbenezer
Lemon Half
Posts: 6530
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 903 times
Been thanked: 1535 times

Re: Titan nav

#408747

Postby UncleEbenezer » May 2nd, 2021, 12:22 pm

scotia wrote:They also have a history of modest dividends - apparently preferring to maintain or increase the NAV.


Yes, it feels like a halfway-house between a typical VCT and a microcap IT. Shows a healthy capital gain in my portfolio even with the discount, and the yield would still be considered pretty good outside the VCT world.

Bearing in mind that buybacks at a tight discount are a rather recent innovation, Unicorn may indeed fall into line if pressure grows. And I should also point out that those notional tight discounts aren't always available in practice: when I sold about 30% of my VCT portfolio to raise house-buying funds a little under two years ago, Baronsmead surprised and disappointed with its lack of liquidity.

(Sadly Titan was one I did sell completely back then, so I'm missing the current excitement).

scotia
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2817
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:43 pm
Has thanked: 1403 times
Been thanked: 1297 times

Re: Titan nav

#408758

Postby scotia » May 2nd, 2021, 1:15 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:
scotia wrote:They also have a history of modest dividends - apparently preferring to maintain or increase the NAV.


Yes, it feels like a halfway-house between a typical VCT and a microcap IT. Shows a healthy capital gain in my portfolio even with the discount, and the yield would still be considered pretty good outside the VCT world.

Bearing in mind that buybacks at a tight discount are a rather recent innovation, Unicorn may indeed fall into line if pressure grows. And I should also point out that those notional tight discounts aren't always available in practice: when I sold about 30% of my VCT portfolio to raise house-buying funds a little under two years ago, Baronsmead surprised and disappointed with its lack of liquidity.

(Sadly Titan was one I did sell completely back then, so I'm missing the current excitement).

Yes - both my wife's Unicorn Investments in 2014 and 2015 have done well - chiefly in the past year, as have my Mobeus VCTs - but Amati has performed even better. My Baronsmead and Northern VCTs have been unspectacular. I ditched Octopus Titan about 4 years ago - but again, over the past 5 years it has been poor - apart from its recent leap upwards.

barchid
Lemon Slice
Posts: 295
Joined: November 30th, 2018, 2:18 am
Has thanked: 112 times
Been thanked: 139 times

Re: Titan nav

#408946

Postby barchid » May 3rd, 2021, 11:05 am

Onslow/Scotia
WRT Unicorn buybacks, I did have an email conversation with them in late 2017 asking why not & was told that they "aim to keep the level of discount in line with the level found in the UK Smaller Co's Investment Trust market".
I have to note though that the discount tightens up considerably in the period between them announcing a new prospectus offer and close to its completion, I know this sounds cynical but it most certainly happens like that, especially in 20/21 tax year !

UncleEbenezer
Lemon Half
Posts: 6530
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 903 times
Been thanked: 1535 times

Re: Titan nav

#408963

Postby UncleEbenezer » May 3rd, 2021, 12:12 pm

barchid wrote:I have to note though that the discount tightens up considerably in the period between them announcing a new prospectus offer and close to its completion, I know this sounds cynical but it most certainly happens like that, especially in 20/21 tax year !

I haven't been watching that. But it would seem to offer an ideal opportunity if you want out.

(You wouldn't be investing in VCTs if you didn't have shorter-term liquidity elsewhere, now would you?)

barchid
Lemon Slice
Posts: 295
Joined: November 30th, 2018, 2:18 am
Has thanked: 112 times
Been thanked: 139 times

Re: Titan nav

#408969

Postby barchid » May 3rd, 2021, 12:30 pm

Uncle
I totally agree on the liquidity issue but I like to try to recycle my holdings every 5 or 6 years if a buyback presents a sensible exit, it does tend to tickle up the performance a tad if you can sell in single figures discount and replace with a similar vct or even wait 6 months, but I tend to do Amati into HHV & vice versa for instance.

Spet0789
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1485
Joined: June 21st, 2017, 12:02 am
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 199 times

Re: Titan nav

#408980

Postby Spet0789 » May 3rd, 2021, 1:05 pm

I hold all of Amati, Hargreave Hale and Unicorn. Happiest with Amati.

I essentially view AIM VCTs as U.K. small cap ITs where over 10 years you pay perhaps 20% away in higher fees and the gap between NAV and buyback price. But with the 30% discount on the way in and the tax-free income and CG, it’s worthwhile in my view... if you’re maximising your ISA and SIPP allowances that is.

My only concern is that with my current retirement/decumulation plan, I would expect to have about 20% of my portfolio in VCTs between 2023 and 2025 which is too much. Will reduce my U.K. and small cap equity holdings elsewhere to try and stay sufficiently diversified... basically will hold more VWRL!

UncleEbenezer
Lemon Half
Posts: 6530
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 903 times
Been thanked: 1535 times

Re: Titan nav

#408998

Postby UncleEbenezer » May 3rd, 2021, 2:14 pm

Spet0789 wrote:My only concern is that with my current retirement/decumulation plan, I would expect to have about 20% of my portfolio in VCTs between 2023 and 2025 which is too much. Will reduce my U.K. and small cap equity holdings elsewhere to try and stay sufficiently diversified... basically will hold more VWRL!

Mine peaked north of 20% (it's now down to the 10% ballpark). It did me very nicely, paying the rent in full in every year (with varying surpluses) for the house where I lived 2013-2019. A house whose market price would have been double what I paid for the VCTs (and hence beyond my means, as my income hasn't been secure enough for a mortgage since the death of Northern Rock and free-for-all mortgages).

Buy when your earned income is up; reduce when it's down.


Return to “Venture Capital Trusts (VCT's)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests