Non essential shops to re-open…

[didds]

I refute the high street is dead per se. its going through a transformation. Internet shopping for larger item goods cannot be competed with wrt high street rents and rates etc - so what is left? Clothing maybe - but its equally clear generally people want everything "for 50p" - and small independents, or even small chains etc cannot compete with the buying power of Tesco. So that doesn't work. Menswear the same if not more so. Then you can't even get socks and pants - except charity shops have stepped into that niche and they all sell underwear (1st hand!!) now.

So the reason highstreets are full of coffee shops, charity ships, takeaways, funeral parlours, hairdressers, etc etc is all these shops sell things that cannot be ordered on line. Or indeed in some enormous mall on the outskirts of a town somewhere near you. And once you've you got a world of wotsit at home r us in place, the business doesnt need one every 5 miles

So eventually all that is left is niche boutique style independents that try to attract a market not served by malls and the web, and the immediate cant get it on the web type services etc.

Maybe then its actually time for councils/govt to review buinsess rates etc to reflect the fact the huigh street is no longer the prime retail land it once was. And hard on landlords, but maybe rents need to reflect that also.

didds

[AF62]

So the reason highstreets are full of coffee shops, charity ships, takeaways, funeral parlours, hairdressers, etc etc is all these shops sell things that cannot be ordered on line.

When my father died the dealings with the funeral parlour were all done by phone and email.

[Lootman]

In my town we do not have out of town retail centres, the High Street is a vibrant and inviting place for many people. Long may it remain so.

I don't know what town you are in but I assume it is an affluent, leafy town in Southern England, maybe with a university or a cathedral. Their high streets are nicer especally if, like Totnes for instance, the local council bars chain stores and junk food places. This leads to the kind of interesting independent shops that your town presumably has.

The town in Devon where we have a house is like that. But there is still a problem. Whilst it is good for people-watching and quirky shopping expeditions, it is a lot less useful for buying important stuff. So my town has all the character and prosperity you could want. But most of the shops are things like antique shops, vintage clothing shops, book shops, tea/coffee shops, wine bars and so.

Want to buy a light bulb, fresh fish or a shovel and you are right out of luck. Have to drive 10 miles to the closest Asda.

The UK is going the way of the US where the concept of an "exurb" started. Businesses, shops, restaurants and hotels gravitate to out of town motorway junctions. The growth is all in the sticks, and feeds on itself. Housing follows. Which leaves town centres having one of two fates. If the town is poor then it's all junk food and charity shops. If it is affluent then it is all antique shops and designer dress shops.

Maybe there is somewhere that is neither but I'm not sure.

[UncleEbenezer]

In my town we do not have out of town retail centres, the High Street is a vibrant and inviting place for many people. Long may it remain so.

I don't know what town you are in but I assume it is an affluent, leafy town in Southern England, maybe with a university or a cathedral. Their high streets are nicer especally if, like Totnes for instance, the local council bars chain stores and junk food places. This leads to the kind of interesting independent shops that your town presumably has.

I'd take issue with that. Totnes has some nice places to eat&drink, but an awful lot of them seem a tad disappointing. I suspect they're being given too much of an easy ride on account of being independents. And a high street that's truly stressful: narrow, with narrow pavements (in parts too narrow to walk), yet also infested with cars. But yes, some of the shops are interesting, and I'm not thinking of the big town-centre Morrisons.

Tavistock once had a Mcdonalds, opened against local opposition. It closed again a year or two later: insufficient custom. But again, many of the independents (especially the in-town pubs) are nothing to write home about. Some brilliant shops though - or were before lockdown.

[Lootman]

In my town we do not have out of town retail centres, the High Street is a vibrant and inviting place for many people. Long may it remain so.

I don't know what town you are in but I assume it is an affluent, leafy town in Southern England, maybe with a university or a cathedral. Their high streets are nicer especally if, like Totnes for instance, the local council bars chain stores and junk food places. This leads to the kind of interesting independent shops that your town presumably has.

I'd take issue with that. Totnes has some nice places to eat&drink, but an awful lot of them seem a tad disappointing. I suspect they're being given too much of an easy ride on account of being independents. And a high street that's truly stressful: narrow, with narrow pavements (in parts too narrow to walk), yet also infested with cars. But yes, some of the shops are interesting, and I'm not thinking of the big town-centre Morrisons.

Tavistock once had a Mcdonalds, opened against local opposition. It closed again a year or two later: insufficient custom. But again, many of the independents (especially the in-town pubs) are nothing to write home about. Some brilliant shops though - or were before lockdown.

Oh, I agree with you totally about Totnes. In fact I really do not like it at all, and its council is a joke. But our kids attended the school at Dartington so for a while we did not have too much choice.

Our place was in Ashburton so it was always an interesting choice: Totnes for its quirk or Newton Abbot for its big box stores (and crappy high street). Newton Abbot usually won. And who doesn't love a bus station next to a cattle market?

[redsturgeon]

I don't know what town you are in but I assume it is an affluent, leafy town in Southern England, maybe with a university or a cathedral.

Tick, tick, tick and tick!

It is also large enough to have a Sainsburys, Tesco, Waitrose and Aldi all on the outskirts with a smaller Sainsburys and Tesco in the centre. The centre has numerous restaurants pubs and coffee shops.

The only place resembling out of town shopping is a block with a Currys, Halfords and Petsmart.

It suits us.

John

[AF62]

The centre has numerous restaurants pubs and coffee shops.

And any actual shops?

[Instep]

I don't know what town you are in but I assume it is an affluent, leafy town in Southern England, maybe with a university or a cathedral.

Tick, tick, tick and tick!

It is also large enough to have a Sainsburys, Tesco, Waitrose and Aldi all on the outskirts with a smaller Sainsburys and Tesco in the centre. The centre has numerous restaurants pubs and coffee shops.

The only place resembling out of town shopping is a block with a Currys, Halfords and Petsmart.

It suits us.

John

I was also ticking boxes, but Petsmart threw me.
Googled "Is there a PetsMart in the UK?"
If it were here I would have added Lidl

InStep

[didds]

like Totnes for instance, the local council bars chain stores and junk food places..

Really? Are there specific by-laws in Totnes covering the type of establishment permitted? Often on local social media in our town people are always moaning that "the council" won't let McDonalds in, but the truth allegedly is that no such power exists and Macdonalds dont come here because MacDonalds have never ever tried! [ basic caveats on business requiring licences - booze, fags, sex shops etc ]

didds

[Lootman]

like Totnes for instance, the local council bars chain stores and junk food places..

Really? Are there specific by-laws in Totnes covering the type of establishment permitted? Often on local social media in our town people are always moaning that "the council" won't let McDonalds in, but the truth allegedly is that no such power exists and Macdonalds dont come here because MacDonalds have never ever tried! [ basic caveats on business requiring licences - booze, fags, sex shops etc ]

To be honest I am not sure that it is council policy or whether it is more a matter of widespread public opposition to the granting of such licenses:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... igh-street

[didds]

[quote="Lootman"

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... igh-street[/quote]

" But South Hams councillors agreed to Costa's application."

So indeed it was nothing to do with "the council". Albeit a huge triumph for a local pressure group which undoutebtedly included local councillors of course eg the mayor.

didds

[UncleEbenezer]

like Totnes for instance, the local council bars chain stores and junk food places..

Really? Are there specific by-laws in Totnes covering the type of establishment permitted? Often on local social media in our town people are always moaning that "the council" won't let McDonalds in, but the truth allegedly is that no such power exists and Macdonalds dont come here because MacDonalds have never ever tried! [ basic caveats on business requiring licences - booze, fags, sex shops etc ]

To be honest I am not sure that it is council policy or whether it is more a matter of widespread public opposition to the granting of such licenses:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... igh-street

I believe Totnes has said no to Big Chains a lot less evil than Big Mac. Costa Coffee springs to mind, though there are certainly independents worse than Costa in that particular niche.

[redsturgeon]

I don't know what town you are in but I assume it is an affluent, leafy town in Southern England, maybe with a university or a cathedral.

Tick, tick, tick and tick!

It is also large enough to have a Sainsburys, Tesco, Waitrose and Aldi all on the outskirts with a smaller Sainsburys and Tesco in the centre. The centre has numerous restaurants pubs and coffee shops.

The only place resembling out of town shopping is a block with a Currys, Halfords and Petsmart.

It suits us.

John

I was also ticking boxes, but Petsmart threw me.
Googled "Is there a PetsMart in the UK?"
If it were here I would have added Lidl

InStep

Sorry, PetAtHome...shows how often I've used that place.

John

[redsturgeon]

The centre has numerous restaurants pubs and coffee shops.

And any actual shops?

Yes plenty, shoes shops, clothes shops, a really useful old fashioned hardware store where you can buy half a dozen screws, all the major banks , building societies, a great independent toy shop, an independent bed shop, several delicatessens, several independent wine shops, two Waterstones, several antiquarian book shops, several independent jewellers, an independent cookware supplier, a couple of high end hifi stores, an independent haberdashers, an independent speciality tea and coffee supplier, a hat shop, I could go on.

John

[brightncheerful]

Everything that is happening to 'high streets' I predicted in June 1989 in my newsletter for clients and contacts. I am pleased that the prediction has come true because it meant I was on the right track. Also, I predicted then what would happen after the decline and that too is emerging.

In 2000, I won a prize in an essay competition sponsored by Marks & Spencer on the Future of Town Centres. In my opinion (which as you may know counts for something in that for my work I advise landlords and retailers) the direction is for destination retailing geared to individuality.

Mass-marketing is over. Whether the destination be a single shop or a cluster of shops or a particular town or a shopping mall, there is simply, in my view, too many shops (more correctly too many shopkeepers and retailers: there's a difference) duplicating goods and services and not enough originality. Partly the shortage of originality is because there are not enough products and services to fill the space in an average shop unit of say 1000 sqft. And partly because the trend over the years (mainly for operating cost savings) for retailers to consolidate several of their branches into one large shop means that because the supply of large shops is limited new developments have spring up to cater. New schemes include retail parks, single ownership shopping centres, and such like. In the early days, it took courage for supermarkets to go out of town and be rid of the in-town narrower streets congestion and what better way to attract customers than to offer free parking and equally no restriction on duration of stay.

A trading area represent the farthest distance consumers are willing to travel to purchase retail goods and services.
 The size of a retail trade area depends on the variety of goods and services offered in the community and its proximity to competing retail markets.



On-line shopping was invented in 1979 but only became possible in 1991 when the internet opened to the public. But the rapid growth of on-line shopping only became a threat to physical ‘bricks-and-mortar’ shops after the arrival of broadband. The change was gradual: it was not until 2007 that more than half of UK homes had broadband, an average connection speed of 4.6 Mbit/s⁠2.

Fast forward and the rapid rise in popularity of Amazon and others owes much to the vast assortment of products that can be bought on line, improvements in desktop and tablet and smartphone monitors and website design, and a better organised logistics and delivery system which includes click-and-collect. The downside of on-line is that you have to know what you are looking for which is where Google and other search engines come in. Also, having found what you are looking for whether to buy can be helped by comments and reviews from other customers: an important asset for on-line sellers that is not readily available when shopping 'normally'.

A shop (as a physical building) is simply a means to an end. A channel for transacting an item for sale to a buyer. Some items can only be channelled in person either directly or indirectly - as a manufacturer would via a wholesaler via a retailer or shopkeeper to the customer. And some items are best sold on-line where from a single point of reference and single mode of payment the goods can be shipped all over the world. And from a customer's perspective better bought on line because given the choice between (a) not having to experience the cost of and time-expended in shopping in person, including having to mix and mingle with all and sundry, and having to endure a typical shop's definition of customer service and (b) having the item delivered same day or next day or a few days later, despite any inconvenience in having to return the item for any reason, (b) is preferred. In short, (a) is mostly do-it-yourself, (b) is mostly have others do it for you.

Muddled thinking is rife. The snag with a shop as a physical building is its durability. Local councils and others keen on planning are fond of the notion that a cluster of shops is good for the community. By imposing planning restrictions (Use Class) and heritage (Conservation areas and listed buildings )so as to preserve the memory and maintain the state/ public sector guardianship that councils have of villages and towns and cities interferes in the natural evolution of shops and shopping. An unwanted shop unless demolished deteriorates and becomes an eyesore. Suddenly, local residents perceive ownership of a town just because they live there. But shopkeepers and retailers and banks don't care because their businesses are profit-motivated private sector, not extensions of social services. Forward-thinking shopkeepers and retailers up sticks and either take the people with (as do out-of-town supermarkets) or more typically re-open where the people are. in trading areas of higher and potentially more profitable footfall.

What I've said above is but a fraction of (what I find) a fascinating subject. The only people concerned about the 'death of the high street' are those that want to preserve its heritage and a fanciful idea of 'community'. Some would argue that is a good thing (not at all fanciful) but the fact is if the majority of shoppers really cared then they would not have forsaken the high street and not continue to do so.

[JohnB]

Even in the before times I'd not visit my local High Street more than once a month, combining a visit to the bank with dropping off in charity shops and picking up plants in the market, or hardware in Poundland. I don't like shopping as a hobby and Amazon and an out of town supermarket do me. I'd use the High Street more if I socialised locally.

But I understand that many others like "play shopping", so I think High Streets will best survive as quirky shops and restaurants/pubs. The problem in the short term is catering is hard to do at the right hygiene level, and buying nik-naks can be postponed. I think social spaces will return, but will novelty shops when people have got an Etsy habit online?

[brightncheerful]

The 'survival' of the "high street' depends upon a combination of the number of people shopping there every day (average footfall) and their spending power.

In the town where I live (rural market town, pop 10,000, catchment 15,000, circa 10 miles to nearest city) the local economy is estimated at £30M a year. The economy is not only shops but also all other types of businesses of which there are a few substantial companies and major local employers. When Aldi opened on the outskirts, the virtual monopoly on supermarket food and drink that Tesco and the Co-Op had had between them was diluted. Very occasionally I shop at the Co-op so only have anecdotal comment but I gather that Tesco has been hit harder. A few years ago two more multiple retailers opened branches here and by all accounts have cleaned up on the local completion but otherwise the town is main local traders, just as quiet after-hours and on Sundays as before and some local traders just as grumbling.

A town like that would not suit, for example, Next, whose primary branches can turnover £1M day.

[AF62]

A town like that would not suit, for example, Next, whose primary branches can turnover £1M day.

There are a lot of towns that don’t suit the retailers.

A town nearby, population 110,000 with a catchment of another 50,000, has seen the closure three of its major retailers over the last few years C&A when it shut up shop in the UK, Marks & Spencer, and just before COVID an independant department store. The only major store left is Debenhams and I doubt that will re-open after all this is over (other than for a closing down sale).

That leaves this town with a catchment of 160,000 with... nothing. And this is not a town suffering economic deprivation but a town with only 2% (pre-COVID) unemployment and lots of people commuting to London. If the town centre was on its knees before COVID, then god help it now.

[supremetwo]

Many are being put off not only by the ever-increasing parking charges but also by the strict traffic warden 'policing' with hefty 'fines' should you transgress one of the myriad parking rules.

Even during this corvid stay-at-home quiet period, the wardens are all on duty waiting to pounce.

Just one 'fine' pays Amazon Prime free delivery for a year.

[vagrantbrain]

I've almost exclusively shopped online since it went mainstream - high streets can keep their rip off parking, chuggers and surly staff