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Compass Group

A virtual pub for off topic, light hearted pub related banter and discussion. No trainers
monabri
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Compass Group

#376707

Postby monabri » January 13th, 2021, 6:32 pm

I find the behaviour of Chartwells pretty disgraceful.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ls-compass

Is this part of the reason why the CEO of Compass group can command such a large remuneration?

I suspect there will be repercussions from this meaness.

ReformedCharacter
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Re: Compass Group

#376724

Postby ReformedCharacter » January 13th, 2021, 7:06 pm

monabri wrote:
I suspect there will be repercussions from this meaness.

I hope so.

You might wish to make your feelings known to Dominic Blakemore, the Group Chief Executive Officer:

dominic.blakemore@compass-group.com

RC

sunnyjoe
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Re: Compass Group

#376805

Postby sunnyjoe » January 13th, 2021, 10:23 pm

I read that the government provides the schools with funding for free school meals and schools can choose to issue vouchers or food parcels. The food parcels are assembled by the school kitchen staff who are mostly employed by such as Compass rather than by the school or council. No doubt Compass have wages and overheads to pay on this operation, which reduces the money available for food.

vagrantbrain
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Re: Compass Group

#376812

Postby vagrantbrain » January 13th, 2021, 10:44 pm

It cost the taxpayer £10.50 including ingredients, admin, preparation and delivery. You can easily make 5 kids lunches from it so not sure what the fuss is about.

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Compass Group

#376826

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » January 13th, 2021, 11:25 pm

vagrantbrain wrote:It cost the taxpayer £10.50 including ingredients, admin, preparation and delivery. You can easily make 5 kids lunches from it so not sure what the fuss is about.

  1. Where were the packages delivered to? Individual homes or a collection centre?
  2. What was the admin mark up? Relating to point 1 the admin mark-up will reduce if more packs are delivered to one point (school)
  3. What are the preparation costs? - Chances are there were none as they were done at source
As a taxpayer I'd like to suggest that this wasn't, nor ever could be value for money.

I could be corrected if some more definitive numbers were put forward

AiY

swill453
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Re: Compass Group

#376845

Postby swill453 » January 14th, 2021, 6:54 am

vagrantbrain wrote:It cost the taxpayer £10.50 including ingredients, admin, preparation and delivery. You can easily make 5 kids lunches from it so not sure what the fuss is about.

The prime minister himself said it was scandalous, disgraceful, appalling, an insult to the families. So that must be the case then?

(Or is he just scared of contradicting Marcus Rashford?)

Scott.

vagrantbrain
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Re: Compass Group

#376870

Postby vagrantbrain » January 14th, 2021, 8:19 am

Ok, so why is it *not* value for money? Or unacceptable? I've not seen one single coherent reason why these were unacceptable other than social media says so.

These are LUNCHES for 1 child for 5 days, to replace the lunches they would have been given at school - the other 2 meals a day are still the responsibility of the parents, same as usual. Looking at the ingredients I could easily make 5 healthy lunches for myself let alone a child. Given the budget of slight over £2 per day including overhead and delivery they look fine to me.

ReformedCharacter
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Re: Compass Group

#376925

Postby ReformedCharacter » January 14th, 2021, 10:27 am

vagrantbrain wrote:Ok, so why is it *not* value for money? Or unacceptable? I've not seen one single coherent reason why these were unacceptable other than social media says so.

These are LUNCHES for 1 child for 5 days, to replace the lunches they would have been given at school - the other 2 meals a day are still the responsibility of the parents, same as usual. Looking at the ingredients I could easily make 5 healthy lunches for myself let alone a child. Given the budget of slight over £2 per day including overhead and delivery they look fine to me.

I haven't eaten any of them myself but Dr Max Davie, of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, said:

the contents of the food parcels were "not nutritionally sufficient for children and young people".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55641740

Boris Johnson said:

"I don't think anybody is happy with the disgraceful images that we've seen.

"The food parcels that have been offered are appalling and they are an insult to families."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13728425/ ... e-schools/

Chartwells said:

Chartwells conceded that the food parcels pictured online fell short of its standards and vowed to investigate.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 86258.html

Laca, a body that represents 550 catering managers across schools, local authorities and private contractors, said:

It is "disappointed" with the pictures of food parcels circulating on Twitter, which "simply do not meet the standards".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-53053337

In my LA some schools use a council-private partnership caterer which have apparently produced very satisfactory meals, some schools have given parents vouchers which have been well received. Some schools, such as those with a PFI agreement use caterers such as Compass and parents have complained about those meals. The caterers have the benefit of bulk purchasing and do not have the usual costs of cooking and preparation, all they have to do is stick the contents in a package.

RC

didds
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Re: Compass Group

#376926

Postby didds » January 14th, 2021, 10:28 am

FWIW I'm waiting for some actual hard evidence of who is responsible before slinging mud.

As of yet Ive seen no evidence that it is some collective, head office promoted policy across all Compass branches etc. Neither have I see that its some action unilaterally perpetratd by a local area manageer, or even individual delivery drivers.

But I will say that all the time our systems contract out such services by defintion almost that £15 a week per FSM child can never equate to £15 of food, as clearly logistics costs and profit margin must be taken from it.

ReformedCharacter
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Re: Compass Group

#376930

Postby ReformedCharacter » January 14th, 2021, 10:35 am

didds wrote:As of yet Ive seen no evidence that it is some collective, head office promoted policy across all Compass branches etc. Neither have I see that its some action unilaterally perpetratd by a local area manageer, or even individual delivery drivers.

I don't think the school catering companies are that organised, I expect the decision about what goes in the packages are made rather lower down the 'food-chain'. As far as I'm aware schools are responsible for delivering food, not catering companies.

didds wrote:
But I will say that all the time our systems contract out such services by defintion almost that £15 a week per FSM child can never equate to £15 of food, as clearly logistics costs and profit margin must be taken from it.

Yes, but these companies have the benefit of bulk buying and ought to be able to buy food more cheaply than parents can from their local supermarkets.

RC

dealtn
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Re: Compass Group

#376950

Postby dealtn » January 14th, 2021, 10:54 am

didds wrote:
But I will say that all the time our systems contract out such services by defintion almost that £15 a week per FSM child can never equate to £15 of food, as clearly logistics costs and profit margin must be taken from it.


How would a non-contracted out provider be able to provide £15 of food from such a contract?

vagrantbrain
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Re: Compass Group

#376951

Postby vagrantbrain » January 14th, 2021, 10:56 am

ReformedCharacter wrote:
vagrantbrain wrote:Ok, so why is it *not* value for money? Or unacceptable? I've not seen one single coherent reason why these were unacceptable other than social media says so.

These are LUNCHES for 1 child for 5 days, to replace the lunches they would have been given at school - the other 2 meals a day are still the responsibility of the parents, same as usual. Looking at the ingredients I could easily make 5 healthy lunches for myself let alone a child. Given the budget of slight over £2 per day including overhead and delivery they look fine to me.

I haven't eaten any of them myself but Dr Max Davie, of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, said:

the contents of the food parcels were "not nutritionally sufficient for children and young people".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55641740

Boris Johnson said:

"I don't think anybody is happy with the disgraceful images that we've seen.

"The food parcels that have been offered are appalling and they are an insult to families."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13728425/ ... e-schools/

Chartwells said:

Chartwells conceded that the food parcels pictured online fell short of its standards and vowed to investigate.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 86258.html

Laca, a body that represents 550 catering managers across schools, local authorities and private contractors, said:

It is "disappointed" with the pictures of food parcels circulating on Twitter, which "simply do not meet the standards".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-53053337

In my LA some schools use a council-private partnership caterer which have apparently produced very satisfactory meals, some schools have given parents vouchers which have been well received. Some schools, such as those with a PFI agreement use caterers such as Compass and parents have complained about those meals. The caterers have the benefit of bulk purchasing and do not have the usual costs of cooking and preparation, all they have to do is stick the contents in a package.

RC


I still don't see how what has been provided is not sufficient to produce 5 lunches for a child?? The same parents who are happy to feed them crap like chicken nuggets and chips every night are now complaining that the free food they've been given somehow isn't good enough. The levels of entitlement in this country are getting ridiculous. Several billion people on the planet would be overjoyed to be given that amount of fresh healthy food for free.

Nimrod103
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Re: Compass Group

#376954

Postby Nimrod103 » January 14th, 2021, 10:59 am

ReformedCharacter wrote:Yes, but these companies have the benefit of bulk buying and ought to be able to buy food more cheaply than parents can from their local supermarkets.


I can't quote actual figures, but most schools in the scale of their operations are going to be comparable to village shops. Prices in village shops are always much higher than supermarkets. Some village shops buy their supplies from supermarkets because it is cheaper than many wholsesalers.

UncleEbenezer
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Re: Compass Group

#376971

Postby UncleEbenezer » January 14th, 2021, 11:11 am

didds wrote:FWIW I'm waiting for some actual hard evidence of who is responsible before slinging mud.

As of yet Ive seen no evidence that it is some collective, head office promoted policy across all Compass branches etc. Neither have I see that its some action unilaterally perpetratd by a local area manageer, or even individual delivery drivers.

But I will say that all the time our systems contract out such services by defintion almost that £15 a week per FSM child can never equate to £15 of food, as clearly logistics costs and profit margin must be taken from it.


Same would surely apply to supermarket deliveries.

Perhaps £15 less a supermarket delivery charge would be a reasonable floor for expected amount of food?

And £15 is ample for several weeks, if you focus ruthlessly on low-cost ingredients. With just value-line pasta and lentils you can do bare-minimum nutrition for £2/week[1], so the rest can add flavoursome, juicy and crunchy ingredients to make it nice food.

[1] That was about £1.10 in 2003 when I struggled to afford even that. For all meals, not just lunches - though in practice it was one meal a day.

ReformedCharacter
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Re: Compass Group

#376973

Postby ReformedCharacter » January 14th, 2021, 11:12 am

vagrantbrain wrote:The same parents who are happy to feed them crap like chicken nuggets and chips every night are now complaining that the free food they've been given somehow isn't good enough.

With respect, I think your prejudices are getting the better of you. Not all poor parents feed their children 'crap like chicken nuggets and chips every night', which isn't to deny that some parents serve their children poorly. Although I seem to recall that Turkey Twizzlers were commonly fed to children by school caterers before being discontinued.

vagrantbrain wrote:The levels of entitlement in this country are getting ridiculous.

And unfortunately the need for food banks and free school meals has become ridiculous too.

RC

didds
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Re: Compass Group

#376982

Postby didds » January 14th, 2021, 11:19 am

dealtn wrote:
didds wrote:
But I will say that all the time our systems contract out such services by defintion almost that £15 a week per FSM child can never equate to £15 of food, as clearly logistics costs and profit margin must be taken from it.


How would a non-contracted out provider be able to provide £15 of food from such a contract?


I never said an alternative would provide £15 of food. Though its clear from various SM posts many people expect that to be the case,

However - furthermore then


The public servant(s) may already be employed across a range of services.
The public logistics (vans etc) may already be deployed across muiltiple usage.

The public provision only becomes equal to the private one if staff and logistics are specifically required and ring fenced for that task alone.

But even then, public provision does not have to also make a profit.

If nothing else the final line is a saving.

didds

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Re: Compass Group

#376986

Postby ReformedCharacter » January 14th, 2021, 11:21 am

Nimrod103 wrote:
ReformedCharacter wrote:Yes, but these companies have the benefit of bulk buying and ought to be able to buy food more cheaply than parents can from their local supermarkets.


I can't quote actual figures, but most schools in the scale of their operations are going to be comparable to village shops. Prices in village shops are always much higher than supermarkets. Some village shops buy their supplies from supermarkets because it is cheaper than many wholsesalers.


I don't think large companies like Compass or Interserve have operations comparable to village shops :) Some schools (I don't have the figures either) undoubtedly source and cook their meals in-house but even then a primary school with hundreds of children or a secondary with a thousand children will be buying their food wholesale and far more cheaply than an individual family. It is the large catering companies or perhaps Compass in particular that are being criticised not schools that produce their own meals.

RC

didds
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Re: Compass Group

#376988

Postby didds » January 14th, 2021, 11:22 am

ReformedCharacter wrote:Yes, but these companies have the benefit of bulk buying and ought to be able to buy food more cheaply than parents can from their local supermarkets.

RC



Yes. they should.

Which makes the alleged paucity of the £5 for a fortnight box an even greater fraud presumably as such companies won't actually have spent as much as a fiver for its £15 provision (notwirhstanding provisioning and delivery costs)

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Re: Compass Group

#376992

Postby didds » January 14th, 2021, 11:25 am

vagrantbrain wrote:The levels of entitlement in this country are getting ridiculous. Several billion people on the planet would be overjoyed to be given that amount of fresh healthy food for free.


6th largest economy in the world, with rising homelessness and a need for food banks to feed the poorest of its population..

Its appalling. THAT's the problem.

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Re: Compass Group

#376996

Postby didds » January 14th, 2021, 11:26 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:
Perhaps £15 less a supermarket delivery charge would be a reasonable floor for expected amount of food?


Yep. Seems reasonable. Fits with my points elsewhere.


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