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Chinese whispers

A virtual pub for off topic, light hearted pub related banter and discussion. No trainers
Clitheroekid
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Chinese whispers

#430004

Postby Clitheroekid » July 23rd, 2021, 8:53 pm

Sorry, not really (in fact not remotely) light hearted pub banter, but I didn't know where else to put it to get maximum exposure ...

This is the best documentary about China – correction, it’s one of the best documentaries about anything – that I’ve seen. It’s a long film – 1½ hours – and it’s subtitled, so not immediately attractive for Friday night viewing, but it’s brilliantly made, and compulsive viewing.

It’s a film that needs to be viewed as widely as possible, and at the risk of invoking Godwin’s Law right at the outset I couldn’t help feeling that a very similar film could have been made about Hitler in the early 1930’s.

I’m glad I don’t live in Hong Kong or Taiwan :cry:

https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/078193-00 ... i-jinping/

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Chinese whispers

#430007

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » July 23rd, 2021, 9:05 pm

The UK's CSG21 will sail through the South China Seas on it's maiden tour, sending a message to Xi Jinping.

There is a real threat to Far Eastern security posed by Jinping in my opinion. I've held the view for the last 6 months that there are many similarities to Hitler's rise to power.

However, I'd suggest, this time, the free world is in a place to keep the threat contained.

AiY

Nimrod103
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Re: Chinese whispers

#430014

Postby Nimrod103 » July 23rd, 2021, 10:01 pm

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:The UK's CSG21 will sail through the South China Seas on it's maiden tour, sending a message to Xi Jinping.

There is a real threat to Far Eastern security posed by Jinping in my opinion. I've held the view for the last 6 months that there are many similarities to Hitler's rise to power.

However, I'd suggest, this time, the free world is in a place to keep the threat contained.

AiY


But to have any effect, there needs to be a 'Leader of the Free World'. Who might that be?

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Chinese whispers

#430015

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » July 23rd, 2021, 10:03 pm

Nimrod103 wrote:
AsleepInYorkshire wrote:The UK's CSG21 will sail through the South China Seas on it's maiden tour, sending a message to Xi Jinping.

There is a real threat to Far Eastern security posed by Jinping in my opinion. I've held the view for the last 6 months that there are many similarities to Hitler's rise to power.

However, I'd suggest, this time, the free world is in a place to keep the threat contained.

AiY


But to have any effect, there needs to be a 'Leader of the Free World'. Who might that be?

Nicola Sturgeon

AiY

Nimrod103
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Re: Chinese whispers

#430021

Postby Nimrod103 » July 23rd, 2021, 10:43 pm

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:
AsleepInYorkshire wrote:The UK's CSG21 will sail through the South China Seas on it's maiden tour, sending a message to Xi Jinping.

There is a real threat to Far Eastern security posed by Jinping in my opinion. I've held the view for the last 6 months that there are many similarities to Hitler's rise to power.

However, I'd suggest, this time, the free world is in a place to keep the threat contained.

AiY


But to have any effect, there needs to be a 'Leader of the Free World'. Who might that be?

Nicola Sturgeon

AiY


With a maritime strike force comprising two ferries being built on Clydeside? (but not quite ready yet)

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Chinese whispers

#430025

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » July 23rd, 2021, 11:02 pm

Nimrod103 wrote:
AsleepInYorkshire wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:
But to have any effect, there needs to be a 'Leader of the Free World'. Who might that be?

Nicola Sturgeon

AiY


With a maritime strike force comprising two ferries being built on Clydeside? (but not quite ready yet)

To confirm. If the Chinese wanted to "liberate" Taiwan they would probably need several hundred Clydeside ferries to allow their troops to embark on the treacherous South China Sea crossing. Noting of course the Clydeside ferries weren't designed to carry munitions with troops. There are limited landing zones in Taiwan. Chinese ships sailing into those geographically throttled areas will suffer heavy losses. And that's without the intervention of the US or their allies.

AiY

BobbyD
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Re: Chinese whispers

#430026

Postby BobbyD » July 23rd, 2021, 11:10 pm

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:The UK's CSG21 will sail through the South China Seas on it's maiden tour, sending a message to Xi Jinping.


Aren't there cheaper ways of delivering belated birthday cards?

1nvest
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Re: Chinese whispers

#430027

Postby 1nvest » July 23rd, 2021, 11:10 pm

Must be awful to live under a regime where all your movements and activities are monitored, free-speech isn't permitted and where you are only allowed into nightclubs/bars etc providing your id has the state approved authority for you to do so.

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Chinese whispers

#430028

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » July 23rd, 2021, 11:27 pm

BobbyD wrote:
AsleepInYorkshire wrote:The UK's CSG21 will sail through the South China Seas on it's maiden tour, sending a message to Xi Jinping.

Aren't there cheaper ways of delivering belated birthday cards?

All those opportunities to discuss and debate.

AiY

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Chinese whispers

#430029

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » July 23rd, 2021, 11:29 pm

1nvest wrote:Must be awful to live under a regime where all your movements and activities are monitored, free-speech isn't permitted and where you are only allowed into nightclubs/bars etc providing your id has the state approved authority for you to do so.

I agree. Must be awful not to be able to protest against such behaviours without being arrested.

AiY

1nvest
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Re: Chinese whispers

#430034

Postby 1nvest » July 24th, 2021, 12:00 am

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:The UK's CSG21 will sail through the South China Seas on it's maiden tour, sending a message to Xi Jinping.

Just hope that the Chinese don't sent a message back in the way of a Russian Tsirkon hypersonic cruise missile

In one respect the UK still has a 'empire' upon which the sun still never sets, albeit just about (by just 7 minutes in June IIRC). Mostly small island remnants around the globe, but useful as platforms. AC's seem so old school, somewhat like charging into WW2 on horseback.

RN is a bygone - can't even keep out a invasion of dinghy's from across a 20 mile stretch of water.

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Chinese whispers

#430036

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » July 24th, 2021, 12:02 am

1nvest wrote:
AsleepInYorkshire wrote:The UK's CSG21 will sail through the South China Seas on it's maiden tour, sending a message to Xi Jinping.

Just hope that the Chinese don't sent a message back in the way of a Russian Tsirkon hypersonic cruise missile

In one respect the UK still has a 'empire' upon which the sun still never sets, albeit just about (by just 7 minutes in June IIRC). Mostly small island remnants around the globe, but useful as platforms. AC's seem so old school, somewhat like charging into WW2 on horseback.

RN is a bygone - can't even keep out a invasion of dinghy's from across a 20 mile stretch of water.

Totally agree with everything you say. Why wouldn't I?

AiY

AleisterCrowley
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Re: Chinese whispers

#430037

Postby AleisterCrowley » July 24th, 2021, 12:04 am

AC's seem so old school, somewhat like charging into WW2 on horseback.
Generals (and Admirals) are always fighting the last war

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Chinese whispers

#430038

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » July 24th, 2021, 12:06 am

AleisterCrowley wrote:AC's seem so old school, somewhat like charging into WW2 on horseback.
Generals (and Admirals) are always fighting the last war

Am I allowed to have a different opinion?

AiY

Clitheroekid
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Re: Chinese whispers

#430042

Postby Clitheroekid » July 24th, 2021, 12:28 am

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:Am I allowed to have a different opinion?

Of course you are - though as you are evidently psychologically disturbed you will be required to attend a re-education camp until your opinion is well again.

This therapy will be provided entirely free of charge because your Government loves you, and you’ll be picked up from your home in about 20 minutes.

Don’t bother to pack a bag, we don’t want you to be troubled by memories of the bad life you’ve been living …

AleisterCrowley
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Re: Chinese whispers

#430043

Postby AleisterCrowley » July 24th, 2021, 12:33 am

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:
AleisterCrowley wrote:AC's seem so old school, somewhat like charging into WW2 on horseback.
Generals (and Admirals) are always fighting the last war

Am I allowed to have a different opinion?

AiY

Go ahead- you live in a country where we can breathe free air (unless we criticise group x or group y or group z or whoever is protected by legislation or Twitter mobs with burning torches..)

Mike4
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Re: Chinese whispers

#430048

Postby Mike4 » July 24th, 2021, 4:13 am

1nvest wrote:Must be awful to live under a regime where all your movements and activities are monitored, free-speech isn't permitted and where you are only allowed into nightclubs/bars etc providing your id has the state approved authority for you to do so.


Must be. Thank God that hasn't happened here and was headed off by Boris getting elected instead of erm... what was his name again?

Nimrod103
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Re: Chinese whispers

#430206

Postby Nimrod103 » July 25th, 2021, 7:47 am

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:The UK's CSG21 will sail through the South China Seas on it's maiden tour, sending a message to Xi Jinping.

There is a real threat to Far Eastern security posed by Jinping in my opinion. I've held the view for the last 6 months that there are many similarities to Hitler's rise to power.

However, I'd suggest, this time, the free world is in a place to keep the threat contained.

AiY


Reading this mornings press about the discussion in the Public Accounts Committee on the subject of the UK’s debt of 2.2 trillion, due mainly to fighting COVID, it occurred to me that wars, or any kind of military action, cost a great deal of money, which the West no longer has. From that point of view, China has a 20 year window within which to act, before the West gets on top of its debts.

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Chinese whispers

#430218

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » July 25th, 2021, 9:34 am

Nimrod103 wrote:
AsleepInYorkshire wrote:The UK's CSG21 will sail through the South China Seas on it's maiden tour, sending a message to Xi Jinping.

There is a real threat to Far Eastern security posed by Jinping in my opinion. I've held the view for the last 6 months that there are many similarities to Hitler's rise to power.

However, I'd suggest, this time, the free world is in a place to keep the threat contained.

AiY


Reading this mornings press about the discussion in the Public Accounts Committee on the subject of the UK’s debt of 2.2 trillion, due mainly to fighting COVID, it occurred to me that wars, or any kind of military action, cost a great deal of money, which the West no longer has. From that point of view, China has a 20 year window within which to act, before the West gets on top of its debts.

It would be interesting to know how much debt China has. If i recall correctly it has recently cancelled the start of one of it's aircraft carriers due to issues connected with national debt. When the UK began to consult on the Type 45 destroyer it originally planned for 12. However, over time and due to the costs that number was reduced to 6. HMS Dauntless has recently had it's two gas powered engines replaced with 3 diesels. And the other five ships will follow. The decision has also been taken to increase the weaponry on the type 45 with an additional 26 Sea-Ceptor. The Type 45 is the backbone of the defence of the carrier strike group and currently it is both unreliable due to engine design and in need of a more fire power. The new diesel engines and missiles should give the Daring Class destroyers the reliability and fire power they were originally designed for.

I believe strongly that the way to enduring peace is through strength. That is having the weapons, the capability and the will to bring pain to the enemy. Many will have a different opinion. Aircraft carriers are considered versatile platforms. They can be used to extract civilians from zones of conflict. They can be used for humanitarian needs. And they can also reassure those who feel the need to acquire land that is not there's that it may come at a cost they don't want to or simply cannot afford.

The UK allowed it's navy to be depleted after WW II. We don't need hundreds of ships these days. These days it is about quality and not numbers. There is a new energy about how the UK defends it's interests worldwide. If some want to call that imperialism they may. It's nothing like in my opinion. A carrier strike group is designed to be put in harms way. It's is designed to defend itself and fight back. It is designed to fight. By mid decade the UK's CSG will have increased capabilities. It will also be able to integrate with US, French, Dutch and many other forces at a very high level.

But let's not kid ourselves. We don't want war. We want peace. And the way to peace is through strength.

China does not have the capabilities that the West have. Their carriers are old technology which was copied or borrowed. They do not have the defensive capabilities needed in a skirmish or war and would be targeted and removed very quickly from any arena where they posed a threat. There's no need to invade China. There is a need to ensure that they behave with the locals. Japan has a strong navy. It doesn't need carriers as large or as capable as ours as it has land based facilities.

One of the largest issues currently faced by The Royal Navy is a lack of young people wanting to join. We operate a volunteer force. During a time of conflict it would not be possible to send both carriers to sea currently due to the lack of reliability with the Type 45's, a lack of skills to staff the second carrier and generally a CSG that is not fully fit of it's intended role. However, by mid decade that may well be a different scenario.

AiY

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Re: Chinese whispers

#430222

Postby scrumpyjack » July 25th, 2021, 10:18 am

AleisterCrowley wrote:AC's seem so old school, somewhat like charging into WW2 on horseback.
Generals (and Admirals) are always fighting the last war


We've got a lot more Admirals than warships!

Looking at a map, the natural way for China to go to (re)build its empire is Russia. Russia has a vast land area, thinly populated, whilst China has a vast population and, compared to Russia, not much land. They are not natural allies, other than both having governments that despise Western values.


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