The Lemon Fool

The earth has been doing a good job of self regulation for a long time. Left to itself it will continue to do so.

Bush and Forest fires have always been with us, as have volcanoes. Because clearing forest is done to permit more organised agriculture, the odds are that carbon capture by the new crops may well be similar to or even better than by the original forest. The main concerns are about the effects on loss of habitat for wildlife.

Forestry usually follows a pattern of replanting after cropping, then thinning out in stages to allow the remaining trees to grow to maturity. How the undergrowth develops depends on the tree species, conifers being less favourable. Land left to its own devices quickly reverts to scrub, with various trees becoming established.

You ask about chemical methods of carbon capture. All the proposed methods use chemical processes and often substantial inputs of energy. Nowhere near as efficient or effective as using vegetation. My view is that they are a waste of time. Cultivating algae or other organisms is much more promising.

The scientists are not "nut jobs", they are doing what their employers pay them to do. What I do consider to be in that category are those who climb uncritically onto the global warming/climate change bandwagons. Extinction Rebellion is a good example.

TJH

tjh290633 wrote:The earth has been doing a good job of self regulation for a long time. Left to itself it will continue to do so.

How long is "a long time"? In the long run we are all dead. The Earth may well regulate itself in the long run - but what are the consequences for humans in the meantime?

Perhaps I am mistaken but, to me, this sounds not dissimilar to some well known Denier tropes e.g.: "There was more atmospheric CO2 on Earth X hundred million years ago" *. This is hardly here or there (apart from how understanding past climate may help understand present climate) what surely matters to us here, now, is how we and our current civilization, peoples and immediate descendants are going to be effected? The dinosaurs are already dead.

* How do they know this, if not for scientific research? Which they otherwise seek to dismiss as erroneous, or 'fraudulent'!

tjh290633 wrote:You ask about chemical methods of carbon capture. All the proposed methods use chemical processes and often substantial inputs of energy. Nowhere near as efficient or effective as using vegetation. My view is that they are a waste of time. Cultivating algae or other organisms is much more promising.

I am still unsure about the significance of these "chemical processes" (I know some direct extraction techniques have been proposed) as compared to biological extraction, which surely nobody is arguing against?

tjh290633 wrote:The scientists are not "nut jobs", they are doing what their employers pay them to do.

OK. So you are not disputing the science? Or are you? So we should pay attention to their investigations?

tjh290633 wrote:What I do consider to be in that category are those who climb uncritically onto the global warming/climate change bandwagons. Extinction Rebellion is a good example.

These are the political aspects (consequences?) of climate change expectations and predictions. Either climate change is irrelevant to us or it matters. If it matters then action needs to be taken, that can only happen via political action and changes. Obviously the science and the politics are two different things, but presumably related. I'm not sure exactly what the objection is.

tjh290633 wrote:You ask about chemical methods of carbon capture. All the proposed methods use chemical processes and often substantial inputs of energy. Nowhere near as efficient or effective as using vegetation. My view is that they are a waste of time. Cultivating algae or other organisms is much more promising.

It depends what you call "chemical process". The Carbon Capture & Storage Association lists three methods of capture (all associated with power plants)
http://www.ccsassociation.org/what-is-ccs/

Pre-combustion capture sounds very chemically intensive (gasification and reforming)

Post-combustion capture too sounds like chemical processing (solvents, adsorbents / desorbents) although high pressure membrane filtration sounds like a mechanical process.

Oxy-fuel combustion is a purely mechanical process (neglecting combustion which occurs in all fossil fuel power plants).

What these processes all have in common is significant energy requirements which increase the cost of electricity from power plants which use them. Fossil fuel power plants are already starting to feel the pinch of competition from renewable generation and battery storage. I don't see CCS taking off. The best power technologies keep carbon in the ground and let nature remove the excess CO2 we have put into the atmosphere and the oceans (possibly with a helping hand from man encouraging natural biological processes).

XFool wrote:How long is "a long time"? In the long run we are all dead. The Earth may well regulate itself in the long run - but what are the consequences for humans in the meantime?

The same as for any species that out-grows its natural habitat. Population collapse.

BoE

Snorvey wrote:I'm not convinced the Chinese government are being entirely honest (or perhaps they just don't know) about the spread of this Wuhan virus

The number of people infected with a new virus in China tripled over the weekend, with the outbreak spreading from Wuhan to other major cities.

There are now more than 200 cases, mostly in Wuhan, though the respiratory illness has also been detected in Beijing, Shanghai and Shenzhen.

Three people have died. Japan, Thailand and South Korea have reported cases.

The sharp rise comes as millions of Chinese prepare to travel for the Lunar New Year holidays.


Chinese New Year this weekend too - at a time where many Chinese folk travel home and meet with friends and families.

I think I'll avoid Chinese food in the coming weeks.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51171035

You do get the impression that news only gets out after fact; going by the organ harvesting from "dissidents", or the swine fever cull, or the Uighur "voluntary" education camps and forced inter-marriage, or human genetic experimentation.

They are getting pretty good with renewables though and have announced a ban on single use plastic; so they get a point for that. Well done guys.

-sd

100 seconds and counting......

https://www.livescience.com/doomsday-cl ... -2020.html

Always look on the bright side of life....

Meanwhile, in Africa....

Unprecedented' locust swarm devastating several countries in Africa fuelled by multiple weather factors

https://news.yahoo.com/unprecedented-lo ... 50536.html

My understanding is that locusts are quite nutritious, so don't poison them, EAT them.
Seriously insects could be an answer to many food problems. Whether used to feed fish or harvest protein. My mouth waters at the prospect of my first beetle burger.

Leothebear wrote:

Meanwhile, in Africa....

Unprecedented' locust swarm devastating several countries in Africa fuelled by multiple weather factors

https://news.yahoo.com/unprecedented-lo ... 50536.html

My understanding is that locusts are quite nutritious, so don't poison them, EAT them.
Seriously insects could be an answer to many food problems. Whether used to feed fish or harvest protein. My mouth waters at the prospect of my first beetle burger.

They're really quite OK (https://www.bold-foods.de/en/products/b ... enprotein/)
- not as good (to my taste buds and eyes) as the Beyond Burger (https://www.beyondmeat.com/products/the-beyond-burger/)
- but not so much as a replacement as an alternative I suppose

- sd

It seems # 3 could be a clincher. Sooner than expected, apparently.

Snorvey wrote:I think youre right.

I wonder what's going to happen when the healthy ones within the 51 million decide that they want out of the restricted zone, rather than just sit there waiting to get ill?

Here in France, where I reside for a good part of the year, there are three reported cases. Two returnees from China and one related to a returnee.

I imagine that if the authorities here were ever to decide to corral a designated area and those who were corraled decided that enough was enough I guess they would just do what comes naturally to the French, don hi-viz yellow jackets and torch the place. However, the Chinese, hmm? Isn't it in their DNA to toe the line or will it become a rerun of 1989 Tian'anmen Square?

panamagold wrote:Isn't it in their DNA to toe the line or will it become a rerun of 1989 Tian'anmen Square?

I think the general response to that in China would be "rerun of what"?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKCN1T50AQ

-sd

Snorvey wrote:...and joining the Wuhan Virus table today is India with 1 confirmed case.
.
.
.

Brexit Britain is still to get off the mark.

What we need is a plane load of people delivered directly from Wuhan. That should help us get onto the leaderboard...

vrdiver wrote:

Snorvey wrote:...and joining the Wuhan Virus table today is India with 1 confirmed case.
Brexit Britain is still to get off the mark.

What we need is a plane load of people delivered directly from Wuhan. That should help us get onto the leaderboard...

And I believe that Boris has promised to fulfill your desire- unfortunately there seems to be some sort of snag at the Wuhan end - a not unusual state of affairs with Boris promises. But when the plane does eventually arrive, the passengers will be transported to the NW of England, well away from Boris.
And back home in even more northerly regions, Scotland's chief medical officer has pronounced that a case of coronavirus is "highly likely" to be detected in the coming days. So perhaps another first for the SNP?

WADS? But not sure you could call it a death sentence.

Meatyfool..

Snorvey wrote:I wish they would give it its own name instead of the family name 'Coronavirus'

'Wuhan Virus' seems to be catching on in Asia, but we need a SARS or a MERS type name.

Locally they're referring to them on the radio as "cases of Corona' "
Which makes me think the bottle shop might be ground zero.

-sd

Ah Corona lemonade, happy memories. They delivered you know, like the milkman....
'Every virus has passed its Corona Fizzical'

AleisterCrowley wrote:Ah Corona lemonade, happy memories. They delivered you know, like the milkman....
'Every virus has passed its Corona Fizzical'

I can remember an advert from the 60's, the jingle for which was the grimly appropriate "A sparkle in the middle and a tickle at the top - Corona!"

Snorvey wrote:I wish they would give it its own name instead of the family name 'Coronavirus'

'Wuhan Virus' seems to be catching on in Asia, but we need a SARS or a MERS type name.

2019-nCoV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novel_cor ... (2019-nCoV)

Wuhan virus is probably the best - a lot of viruses are named for the location of first outbreak
(Ebola virus, Marburg virus)

Clitheroekid wrote:

AleisterCrowley wrote:Ah Corona lemonade, happy memories. They delivered you know, like the milkman....
'Every virus has passed its Corona Fizzical'

I can remember an advert from the 60's, the jingle for which was the grimly appropriate "A sparkle in the middle and a tickle at the top - Corona!"

The 'Corona Factory', as we called it, was a good source of a Saturday job when I was a teenager in Cardiff. It was located right next to the old Royal Ordnance Factory. When the ROF site was redeveloped for housing there was an incredible amount of remediation works needed due to the amount of heavy metals and other nasties left behind in the soil.
I often wondered if the Cardiff Corona bottles had a little bit of extra fizz.