HS2

[Lootman]

so the great central line which was expressly designed for large heavy rolling stock from the northern cities to london AND on to dover could still be with us .

The GCR ended at Marylebone. How would it have connected to Dover?

[tjh290633]

so the great central line which was expressly designed for large heavy rolling stock from the northern cities to london AND on to dover could still be with us .

The GCR ended at Marylebone. How would it have connected to Dover?

It actually ended at Quainton Road, from where it used the Metropolitan Railway's lines into London. A related company was the South Eastern & Chatham Railway, which had that dead straight line from Redhill to Ashford and onto Dover. One plan was to link the two.

TJH

[stewamax]

Interesting that the Chinese are building a hospital from scratch in Wuhan in 6 days. Pity we can't get them to build HS2 or even something useful?

Never forget that Brunel - the inevitable Brunel - designed a prefabricated hospital with all the usual facilities for use in the Crimean War and got one of his Great Eastern contractors to build the prefab units. These were shipped during the next five months and erected in around ten weeks with the son of the contractor acting as project manager.

[zico]

Interesting Twitter thread from Nigel Harris@Rail - who appears to be a rail expert.
I've summarised his main arguments below, which is an important new take on the issues, and helps explain why the Government is looking more likely to continue with HS2.

The procurement model for HS2 was to require the builders to be responsible for any design risk for maybe 25 years, which has inevitably meant that contractors will insure against future problems, and also massively overdesign embankments, bridges and tunnels. Obviously they won't do this for free and will pass on the costs to the Government.
He uses the analogy of asking a builder to build you a house and he quotes £200k, but you then tell him you require him to guarantee there won't be so much as a hairline crack in any plaster for the next 25 years - so you can forget £200k, it would probably be double or triple the cost.

He estimates the cost of this HS2 overdesign to be around £30bn, and he believes this model has been quietly dropped from the specifications. If true, the Government can announce it's going ahead with HS2 and also saving us lots of money.

He also says the current expected cost is £88bn, and the misleading £106bn the media are reporting as if it's fact is the worst case scenario.

[UncleEbenezer]

The procurement model for HS2 was to require the builders to be responsible for any design risk for maybe 25 years,

Race to the bottom.

Carillion.

He also says the current expected cost is £88bn, and the misleading £106bn the media are reporting as if it's fact is the worst case scenario.

Fine. But if you think the estimates have stopped rising at either of those figures, I have a bridge to sell you.

[zico]

The procurement model for HS2 was to require the builders to be responsible for any design risk for maybe 25 years,

Race to the bottom.Carillion.

What do you mean?

He also says the current expected cost is £88bn, and the misleading £106bn the media are reporting as if it's fact is the worst case scenario.

Fine. But if you think the estimates have stopped rising at either of those figures, I have a bridge to sell you.

As long as you aren't trying to sell me one of the HS2 tunnels that we apparently need to build a railway underneath the high peaks of the Chiltern Alps.

[UncleEbenezer]

The procurement model for HS2 was to require the builders to be responsible for any design risk for maybe 25 years,

Race to the bottom.Carillion.

What do you mean?

Consider the various risks for which Carillion is responsible under that kind of contract terms. Like hospitals now in limbo.

How did they get there? The race to the bottom among bidders. Doubtless with associated accounting wheezes, cut corners, etc.

As long as you aren't trying to sell me one of the HS2 tunnels that we apparently need to build a railway underneath the high peaks of the Chiltern Alps.

Bargain at a billion. Buy it now before prices double!

[zico]

Race to the bottom.Carillion.

What do you mean?

Consider the various risks for which Carillion is responsible under that kind of contract terms. Like hospitals now in limbo.

How did they get there? The race to the bottom among bidders. Doubtless with associated accounting wheezes, cut corners, etc.

The whole idea of Government pushing risk onto the private sector is fundamentally flawed - yes, they can do it, but the private sector will inevitably charge a premium, or alternatively (as with many private rail companies) hope for the best and simply have a shell company to go bust if they do face problems.

I remember touring Sicily where they have a similar (but even worse) system of offering road-building contracts to the lowest bidder, and what happens there is that the "winning" company takes the Government money upfront and then simply only does a small part of the work, so a large part of Sicily's roads are "under construction" and will never be finished.

[brightncheerful]

I see the BBC keep misrepresenting its purpose

…

Yes, keep on about trains. Whereas the real purpose is to help push Costain share price up to where it was.