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Names more common than their inverses

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stewamax
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Names more common than their inverses

#279604

Postby stewamax » January 24th, 2020, 10:02 am

In England and Wales some double-barrelled surnames are much more common than their inverses, for example: Lloyd-Wright appears much more common than Wright-Lloyd (whether hyphenated or not). Further, it appears to be more common that the first of these names is single-syllabic whereas the second is more frequently multi-syllabic, and for the first (at least) being surprisingly often of Welsh origin (Lloyd in the above example was originally Llwyd). The obvious explanations such as the wife’s surname becoming attached as the first of the names, or one name being more intrinsically common than the other, or one name being ‘posher’ than the other seem not to apply.
Staying with the example of Lloyd, I can think of numerous double-barrels: some illustrious such as Lloyd-Mostyn (both Welsh) and Lloyd-Baker* (second is a trade name); some well-known such as Lloyd Wright; and some just ‘ordinary’ such as Lloyd-Hughes (both Welsh) and Lloyd-Jones (both Welsh). But Mostyn-Lloyd, Baker-Lloyd etc are very unusual.

+ often not hyphenated: for example the Lloyd-Baker family of Hardwicke Court (and formerly of Stouts Hill) in Gloucestershire were originally Lloyd Baker

servodude
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Re: Names more common than their inverses

#279609

Postby servodude » January 24th, 2020, 10:11 am

I think it might be down to how English works.

Some stuff just sounds wrong.

This book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Eloquence
- covers a lot of what you don't realise you know in a way that is very readable

Like it's never: tock tick, or flop flip!

- sd

AleisterCrowley
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Re: Names more common than their inverses

#279614

Postby AleisterCrowley » January 24th, 2020, 10:17 am

Or zag zig....
Euphony is the word..!

servodude
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Re: Names more common than their inverses

#279618

Postby servodude » January 24th, 2020, 10:21 am

AleisterCrowley wrote:Or zag zig....
Euphony is the word..!

Yes it is! Kudos and rec for that

-sd

scotia
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Re: Names more common than their inverses

#279637

Postby scotia » January 24th, 2020, 11:05 am

Slightly off topic - but it does cover the inclusion of a wife's name. I remember a lad who's surname was McGrotty. So rather than his wife-to-be becoming Mrs McGrotty, he took her surname, and dropped the McGrotty entirely (no hyphenated inclusion). A sensible fellow.

dionaeamuscipula
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Re: Names more common than their inverses

#279673

Postby dionaeamuscipula » January 24th, 2020, 12:38 pm

We have family friends whose children's surnames are Beartree-Butchers* and some others whose children's surnames are Macdonald-Grey. In each case the parents surnames have been joined and hyphenated

I dearly wish the two families to intermarry. The excitement of filing in forms when your surname is Beartree-Butchers-Macdonald-Grey.

DM

*In neither case are these the real names, although the number of characters in each name is accurate

stewamax
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Re: Names more common than their inverses

#279744

Postby stewamax » January 24th, 2020, 4:07 pm

servodude wrote:This book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Eloquence covers a lot of what you don't realise you know in a way that is very readable

I bought a copy after a review in the Telegraph!
It doesn't explain the surname paradox but gives interesting insight [note the alliteration...] into the techniques of some writers.
The past master of this was Edgar Allan Poe; his poetry may not be Keats but his command of rhyme, rhythm and alliteration is extraordinary - predating Gerard Manley Hopkins and Dylan Thomas. Just read The Raven or The Bells out loud. Some of his verse forms go way back to the ancient Welsh cynghanedd and to the equally ancient English alliterative masterpieces such Langland's Piers Plowman.


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