My crippling phobia - heights

[AleisterCrowley]

Evening all, I know this isn't Comfort Cafe but please be gentle - telling me to pull myself together and get on with it isn't going to help (you can if you like, but it'll just go in one ear and out t'other)

I suffer from acrophobia (incorrectly called vertigo sometimes) - an irrational or extreme fear of heights.

I've always been a bit cautious about heights but it seems to be getting worse as I get older. As an example I can remember walking across Pontcysyllte Aqueduct on a school trip with no problems: something I'd find impossible today.
This phobia is really getting me down as it's stopping me living a full life, and I have realised I'm running out of time to do all the things I want to do

We'll get on to the flying later perhaps, but I've always loved the outdoors and like being up hills. Trouble is now I can't face any walks with steep drops i.e. a lot of exposure (in the hill walking sense - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_(heights) ) I'm even avoiding cliff top paths etc.

I really need to get over this, and have been checking out stuff on the internet but some of the advice is contradictory. I don't know if I should try working up slowly, or face up to my fears with a real challenge. If I challenge myself to do something difficult (one of the Three Peaks?) and I succeed will it help even if I was terrified and ended up having nightmares about it?

I've been watching a lot of YouTube videos of Snowdon and Ben Nevis ascents. Ben Nevis, though higher, looks like the approaches are less exposed , although it's an extra 300m climb of course. Snowdon is closer but nobody seems to agree on the easiest/least exposed routes to the top. I made the mistake of watching a traverse of Crib Goch (most difficult) and I felt physically sick, and my palms were dripping sweat. No way I could ever do that but watching videos of some of the intermediate ones I could see real issues for me, particularly Bwlch Main on the Rhyd Dhu route.
Looks like the Llanberis Path is a possibility, but I don't want to freeze and grab the ground on a more exposed section, while a lot of elderly ramblers and families with dogs stroll past ...

Any ideas? It's really getting me down, to the point where I don't really want to do anything any more
cheers
AC (at ground level + 1 metre)

[redsturgeon]

Traditionally there are two seemingly opposite approaches to phobias. Systematic desensitisation which takes the gradual approach and "flooding" which throws you in at the deep end. So the contradictory advice is both potentially right.

You could always try hypnotherapy which helps some people or the more modern NLP approach which has a quick phobia cure. See either a hypnotherapist or NLP practitioner for either of these.

Cognitive behavioural therapies are also available which combine some of these approaches.

Good luck and I hope you will be able to reach the tops again soon.

John

[UncleEbenezer]

You travel by train, don't you? What does the edge of the platform do for you? It's high enough to hurt yourself if you were to go over it in an uncontrolled manner. What about a similar height in a less-familiar setting?

Are you terrified of sitting high up in a theatre? I find myself moving with great care up there!

I've absolutely no idea if it's remotely helpful, but what would you feel about a one-off event? Like diving from a high board? Or extreme therapy inspired by our very own bungeejumper?

[scotia]

Have you chatted to your GP about this? There are SSRI drugs that help significantly with irrational anxieties - although they are usually referred to as anti-depressants. And if they cure the problem, then you can usually stop taking them without the problem recurring. Its certainly worth talking to your GP about this.

[servodude]

It's the kind of thing that CBT can help with - I suggest speak to your GP about finding someone to discuss it with.

On a more practical level give some consideration to trying indoor climbing; and try to expose yourself to it in a secure environment
- after about about 1 foot off the ground fall back
- and get really secure in the fact that your harness holds you and that you cannot be hurt
- then try and enjoy yourself (or experience different degrees of discomfort in safety)

It's about drawing a clear line between the rational and irrational responses, and it's not easy to do that without any exposure to it

Good luck
- sd

[Clariman]

Hi AC, sorry to hear it is getting you down. I'm no expert but from time to time I've had slightly phobic reactions to things, including heights. In fact I still don't like heights but it doesn't particularly bother me. For the time being I just accept it.

Following an experience of being I'll on a walk (nothing major) I have been jittery on some walks if I don't know how long it is or where potential exit points are. For me the best way of handling it was to build up longer and to know if and where I could get a bus back if I wanted... and then extend the length of walks. This builds up confidence. So I'd be inclined not to do a major challenge unless it was at the end of a sequence of walks/climbs that built up to it. But we are all different.

I also find it best not to beat oneself up about these things. There will be things that you and I do that others would be terrified of. Also being honest with your nearest and dearest and explain it so they understand and accept it.

C

[JuanDB]

I’ve climbed Snowdon a few times and Ben Nevis once (3 peaks challenge). I also have a fear of heights although I suspect not to the level you describe.

The route I’ve always taken on snowdon is the miners trail. I’d describe it as a walk rather than a climb. Apart from one small section near the top there is nothing I recall that would invoke a fear of heights.

Not sure of the route I took up Ben Nevis but it was really tame, more like walking a graded trail than climbing a mountain. If it weren’t for the views (and racing the clock) I’d say it was a pretty dull walk.

Neither climb had the cliff edge drops that I’d associate with vertigo. You’re more likely to hurt yourself falling on the uneven surface than falling off the mountain. I’d definitely give either of them a go.

Cheers,

Juan

[AleisterCrowley]

I'm fine with step ladders! -max 6ft. I have been up some tall buildings and I'm OK as long as it isn't floor to ceiling glass and I don't get too close to the window. Highest to date top floor of Millbank Tower, but if I went and stood on the roof above I'd immediately shrivel up and die even with a guard rail

This is the view to the top of Snowdon.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.06879 ... 312!8i6656
I'd even have a problem with this because I can't see the terrain beyond the visible edge.
Loads of families with children go up that route every year, it's one of the busiest mountains in Europe. It should be a stroll in the park.
It feels depressing and humiliating that I have a problem with such easy stuff.

[JuanDB]

Just re-read your original message and notice you’d mentioned the 3 peaks as a possibility. The route I climbed Scafell pike is a different beast to Snowdon or Ben Nevis. Majority of the route felt like a hill walk, until you reach what you think is the summit. This turns out to be a false summit with a steep scramble over rocks with a pronounced drop either side to get to the actual summit. Definitely one to get the heart pumping.

[JuanDB]

If you flip the view 180 degrees, the path you can see going over the ridge to the right is, I believe, the pyg trail. That has a distinct drop either side. The miners trail drops away to the right and just follows the slope down. TBH the picture makes it look steeper than I remember it to be.

[AleisterCrowley]

i had a look at the Pyg, and it didn't seem to be too bad but a lot depends on the camera angles/lenses etc, particularly the self-filmed ascents on YouTube
I'm still stressed by some of the Crib Goch ones I watched, although that is classed as a Grade 1 scramble, not a walk. Drop to almost certain death each side, I wouldn't do it in July with zero wind.

[UncleEbenezer]

Just re-read your original message and notice you’d mentioned the 3 peaks as a possibility. The route I climbed Scafell pike is a different beast to Snowdon or Ben Nevis. Majority of the route felt like a hill walk, until you reach what you think is the summit. This turns out to be a false summit with a steep scramble over rocks with a pronounced drop either side to get to the actual summit. Definitely one to get the heart pumping.

He actually said one of the "three peaks". Which is an altogether more sensible proposition - though there are of course many similar options.

Thinking about it, for hills in the UK, perhaps the Brecon Beacons would be an option? Smooth terrain compared to further north, but with some steeper scarp slopes than English so-called uplands (other than the Lakes).

Or of course, pretty-much any of our coast paths will offer some steep bits.

[zico]

I've found the best way is to challenge yourself slightly, then do something a bit harder soon after, as brains tend to think 'this new route is only slightly harder than what I just did, so no need to panic'. Lake District is probably a good place to go because there are many different widths of ridge and on quite a few routes, you have a choice between middle or edge or a ridge, depending on how confident you feel.

I redid Snowdon recently following the railway route. Whichever route you pick, you need to go on the final ridge to the top which is fairly narrow, but certainly not knife-edge, and one side has much less exposure (very big view versus crags). I have a similar issue to you, but only for sheer drops, very steep drop-offs are fine. Is your fear about proximity to sheer drops or more general exposure?

[AleisterCrowley]

general exposure I think. I prefer the railway/big view side to the crags

[zico]

In that case I think you'd be fine to do any Snowdon route except Crib Goch, though I'd recommend the railway route, with big views all the way and only about 400 yards of narrowish ridge path to the top, which shouldn't be scary at all if you keep to the right hand side. There are steep, getting on for sheer crags to the left, but mostly there's a reassuringly protective rock 'wall' between the path and the crags, so should be no exposure problem. Views are great from the top!

N.B. Absolutely avoid the railway route in frosty/icy weather - not that we get that kind of weather anymore!

[Clitheroekid]

I sympathise, as I share your phobia. But rather like depression, it's impossible for someone who hasn't suffered from it to imagine it.

The sensation is far more than fear - after all, fear of heights as such is a perfectly natural and sensible reaction, as there is danger there. At its most intense it's a sensation that combines a very high level of anxiety - dry mouth, sweaty palms, high pulse - with an almost complete paralysis.

A mild version can even be triggered by a visual image. Many years ago I was reading the Daily Telegraph and I turned the page to find a double page spread NatWest ad, which was a view down from the top of the NatWest Tower. I can still recall the feeling of dizziness and nausea that it invoked.

The last time I experienced a severe `attack' was in France, when we decided to go up to the top of a lighthouse. It was only a modest structure, maybe 100 feet tall, but the ascent was up a flight of stone steps carved into the interior wall. The lighthouse was hollow, so that one looked across at the opposite wall, maybe 30 feet away at the base, tapering to around 15 feet at the lantern.

I didn't really enjoy it even at the beginning, but about two thirds of the way up I suddenly became conscious of what seemed like a huge void to my left - towards the centre of the lighthouse. I began to feel really quite ill, but it was effectively impossible to turn round and go back, as there were lots of people behind me.

I made it to the top, only to be faced with a vertical ladder, leading up to the lantern. I somehow crawled up it, and emerged, shaking and sweating, onto the circular path round the lantern itself.

The path was maybe 4 feet wide, with a wall that was only about 4 feet high, so it was almost impossible not to look down.

I remember pressing my back to the lantern to try and stay as far from the wall as I could, staring resolutely to the horizon, as I generally find that the more horizontal my view the less fear I have. Strangely though, I find that trying to look up is even worse than looking down, as it makes me feel even more disconnected from the ground.

I felt a complete numpty, as children were running round the lantern, and other people were standing peering down the wall of the lighthouse.

Eventually I managed the descent without too many problems, but I swore that was the last time I'd ever do anything like it.

I'm aware that recounting my own story doesn't help you AC, but I hope it will enable others to realise just what a powerful and crippling sensation it is.

I'm also afraid that I can't offer you any cure. My own way of dealing with it is simply to avoid situations where it might arise. I also enjoy walking in the Lakes, but 90% of it is not sheer crags and drops, and I can't recall having experienced any problems since I made an ill-judged attempt to cross Striding Edge about 30 years ago. But especially nowadays I tend to stick to fairly easy walks with no steep ascents, whereas I can see that you're rather more adventurous.

For what it's worth a girl that used to work for me had an equally crippling fear of heights. But one summer she went to be a holiday rep in Greece. To her horror she found that one of her duties was to stand at the top of a bungee jump, assisting customers to leap off. She was persuaded / bullied into doing a bungee jump herself, which she was assured would cure it. Although she said she was shaking so much she could hardly stand up she went through with it and to her astonishment she was instantly cured.

Unfortunately, I'm too much of a coward, but I suppose it might work for you?

[UncleEbenezer]

How does this make you feel?

[nimnarb]

That's not nice Uncle

AC, I'm in total sympathy with you. I don't know when I started to get whatever they call this condition, but do you when you are up say on a tall building and are asked to look down for example to see something, you have this urge that drags you to the end as if you are going to push yourself off?

I start to get quite ill when there is a balcony and quite high up and just cannot go anywhere near the edge. Rented a place about 11 stories up that had a very nice outdoor terrace, I literally could not look down. I think you should just adjust accordingly in how you feel and not try to find a solution. Just have a go whatever you wish to achieve and know that this is a mental(as in, its in the mind somewhere) situation as opposed to a physical one and although you can control aspects with very strong willpower you have to say to yourself that it will not cause you grief and you will continue to enjoy everyday and not let this get you down as you state and more importantly, you say you "don't want to do anything anymore"...Oh yes you do and you will and you can. Take a walk in stages and if you are not comfortable, make sure there is a good pub nearby, refreshments in order and start again. It helps being drunk by the way...

[Dod101]

How does this make you feel?

That makes me feel that the guy is a complete idiot.

Dod

[BrummieDave]

How does this make you feel?

That makes me feel that the guy is a complete idiot.

Dod

Dod, he's no idiot, it's a trompe l'oeil...