My crippling phobia - heights

[Dod101]

OK Well it fooled me. How can you tell?

I am OK at heights provided I have a guard rail. I was recently at the 86th floor of the PETRONAS Towers in KL and was very happy right up at the edge (with a glass wall ceiling to floor) Also on that glass floored sky bridge at the Grand Canyon but like Snorvey I do not like narrow or rocky mountain, or even hill, paths. I think though that that is a function of age because I am aware of the possible consequences if I slip nowadays.

I am sorry about the OP's phobia because it must be quite restricting but I have no helpful answer I am afraid.

Dod

[monabri]

How does this make you feel?

A good pastle drawing.

I find that as I get older, I'm becoming increasingly nervous about being high off the ground ( ferris wheel or being on top of Birmingham library even behind the glass barrier I find myself backing away from the edge) . Maybe as the body ages our sense of balance (and daring) reduces and so we compensate by telling ourselves to stay away from danger.

[jfgw]

How does this make you feel?

That makes me feel that the guy is a complete idiot.

Dod

Or an amazing pavement artist,


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... yline.html

Julian F. G. W.

[AleisterCrowley]

In that case I think you'd be fine to do any Snowdon route except Crib Goch....

Having looked at the videos no way I could do Rhyd Dhu path with the Bwlch Main section
My ultimate fear is a narrow ridge exposed both sides (well, ultimate is atop a free standing narrow structure like a chimney, but none of those in the hills -excluding a few mesas in the US perhaps)

[Howyoudoin]

Any ideas? It's really getting me down, to the point where I don't really want to do anything any more
cheers
AC (at ground level + 1 metre)

Following the thread with interest as I have a mild version of what ails you. I'm ok with heights per se, flying and walking up hills are no problem for me. But I feel very dizzy and sick to my stomach whenever i'm confronted with a sheer drop with no barrier there i.e. looking over the edge of a cliff.

On the subject of phobias, i'm feeling very guilty/stupid today as I preliminarily registered as a stem cell/bone marrow donor without really knowing what I was signing up for.

They sent me the pack which includes the swabs that you use and send back to them (which I heaven't done - yet). It's only when I watched the video of what is involved should I be a match for someone who is seriously ill that the full horror of a 5 hour blood transfusion with intravenous needles in both arms/veins became clear. If you saw my recent post on BItter Lemons about needles, you'll understand why I nearly passed out.

So that's on hold until I can sum up the courage to go through that. Good chance I won't be able to.

HYD

[bungeejumper]

Commiserations, AC. If it's getting you down as much as you say, it would be sensible to get some help, or just get it looked at. I don't have any trouble with looking down from a mountainside - what gets my stomach churning are those vertiginous drone-camera shots of waterfalls that turn up on TV natural history programmes - and dammit, I'm not even there! Just cowering on the sofa!

My wife is a psychotherapist, and her professional world is full of weird and wonderful explanations for this sort of thing. So I won't propose that you're suffering post-traumatic shock from the day your little brother threw your teddy down a lift shaft. (Unless you know better?) T'would be better, for the moment, to check off the more likely explanations.

As Monabri has said, it's common for an aversion to heights to set in as we age. But dammit, you're a spring chicken compared to me (69). I expect you've already scared yourself silly with websites that say it's an early sign of degenerative brain disorders, so let's return to simpler stuff.

Inner ears: Balancing is a large part of what they do, which is why you get dizzy when you're ill. Any long-term sinus issues going on with you?

Eyesight: When did you last go to Specsavers? As anyone will tell you, there's nothing worse than an astigmatism for making it scary to walk downstairs. (Actually, the time when you really notice it is when you get your first pair of varifocals, but that's another story.)

In all seriousness, I once had a bad bout of dizzy-whizzy vision in my late 20s, when I was seriously stressed up by some rather extreme family stuff and could hardly cross a busy road without worrying about falling under a car or something. In that situation I found that an old-fashioned bottle of nerve tonic made a difference! Anything going on for you? Jobs, family, anything else? (No, I don't want to know, I'm just opening up the issue a little bit.)

Speaking of which, one of the best panic-blockers is to eat bananas. As used by snooker players and professional musicians to conquer stage nerves. Nature's very own beta blocker. (Potassium, B vitamins, and allegedly, tryptophan.) It's cheating, but they can't touch you for it.

BJ

[BrummieDave]

OK Well it fooled me. How can you tell?

Dod

I guess the overriding way you can tell is because it's a drawing (look at the cars for example)!

Back to the OP: firstly everyone is scared of heights so you aren't alone. A fear of falling is one of three fears we are all born with. WRT Snowdon, a few pointers from me. Forget Rhyd Dhu, and I'd ignore Pyg and Miners too tbh. If it's your first time up, go with the crowds (it will help with you anxieties) and wander up the Llanberis Path (you can even take the train after March 20th). I last went up Snowdon on Jan 4th and you'd have been fine in terms of fear of heights, as you couldn't see more than 20 feet in any direction. It was cold, wet, and zero visibility. No fun tbh. With short daylight hours, there wasn't time to get a cab to the always full car park at Pen-y-Pas so I trudged up the Llanberis path. You can't get lost, fall off, or do anything remotely scary. It has steepness so you'll feel a sense of achievement, but unless the weather is good, you'll see very little, even at the top. Maybe just what you need!

Others have mentioned the 3 peaks challenge. I've done it, but wouldn't do it again. Fort William (the start point for most) is a glorious place to spend time walking, but a long way from home for most. It's totally irrational to spend a day getting there simply to dash up Ben Nevis at dusk then jump in a car and sleep all the way to Scafell Pike etc. Far better to book yourself a few days and enjoy the walks around Ben Nevis, then go home in a leisurely manner.

One other idea for the OP: try reading this and watching the vids on post #284542 (part of viewtopic.php?f=38&t=21812). May help, may not. I'm no expert. But remember, nobody likes heights. We are all scared of them. It's a survival thing.

[AleisterCrowley]

Everyone is cautiuos about heights (sensibly) but most of the internet stuff defines acrophobia as an 'extreme or irrational fear or phobia of heights'
This site says [https://www.anxietyuk.org.uk/blog/heightened-anxiety-overcome-fear-high-places/]
"A fear of heights is a curious and irrational fear, but it’s a very real and frightening experience for those who experience it."
It feels rational to me! Why would I put myself in a situation where a stumble would result in serious injury or death, just for 'fun'?

OK, some parts are irrational, like my fear of more distant edges - eg this bit of the easy/family route up Snowdon
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.07110 ... 312!8i6656
this is worse
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.06967 ... 312!8i6656

My hands started sweating navigating that on Google Maps...

[GoSeigen]

AC,

I've started developing the beginnings of claustrophobia. There's a crawl space under the ground floor of a building we own and I couldn't go more than about 4 ft from the entrance (a trapdoor in the floor). It's a kind of terror that I could get trapped there and not reach an exit.

I'm not an expert of any of these phobias, but to me the symptoms feel like a kind of panic attack, and the advice I've heard for panic attack is to breathe into a paper bag or equivalent. This raises the level of CO2 in the air and counteracts hyperventilation (I think).

Two years ago I went down a disused gold mine with the kids and 30sec into the ride down in the lift (a cage, with view of the shaft while descending) the panic came on. I tried the breathing into a bag thing and amazingly within seconds I'd calmed right down. The fear came back at the bottom when I saw the long dark tunnel, but I just repeated the breathing in a bag and immediately felt better and was able to complete the tour.

Since then I've handled limestone caves and other enclosed situations so I'm hopeful you too will be able to overcome it. Try the paper bag thing -- you can make it dual purpose: just remove the bottle whenever you need to take a breath!


GS

[dealtn]

I suffer from acrophobia (incorrectly called vertigo sometimes) - an irrational or extreme fear of heights.

Any ideas? It's really getting me down, to the point where I don't really want to do anything any more
cheers
AC (at ground level + 1 metre)

I share your suffering as someone who has issues with height. Not only does it make me feel nauseous, but I have an irrational "urge" to want to "jump off". I couldn't sit near the outside of any of the offices I worked in when in the City, and had to avoid certain restaurants when invited (companies I was a client of got to know, but first time with new ones could be "interesting"). The thoughtful architect of one building I worked at for nearly 10 years had the toilets on my floor along a passage that ran the edge of the internal atrium. Some days I was fine, usually touching the wall for comfort, others I had to use the ground floor ones (less nice!).

Anyway, I have climbed Ben Nevis, Snowdon and Scaffell Pike, none of which are particularly difficult climbs, or phobia inducing, if using the "easy" routes. That is the "mountain path" from Nevis Visitor centre, Llanberis path (by the railway), and Wasdale, respectively.

Weather conditions and suitable clothing are more of an issue.

I did need to get rescued by Mountain Rescue off the side of Scaffell Pike once though, due to missing a path when attempting to come down via Lords Rake, and overshooting into steep crags. Top respect to those guys.

[AleisterCrowley]

I sympathise, as I share your phobia. But rather like depression, it's impossible for someone who hasn't suffered from it to imagine it.

...
The last time I experienced a severe `attack' was in France, when we decided to go up to the top of a lighthouse. It was only a modest structure, maybe 100 feet tall, but the ascent was up a flight of stone steps carved into the interior wall. The lighthouse was hollow, so that one looked across at the opposite wall, maybe 30 feet away at the base, tapering to around 15 feet at the lantern.
I didn't really enjoy it even at the beginning, but about two thirds of the way up I suddenly became conscious of what seemed like a huge void to my left - towards the centre of the lighthouse. I began to feel really quite ill, but it was effectively impossible to turn round and go back, as there were lots of people behind me.
I made it to the top, only to be faced with a vertical ladder, leading up to the lantern. I somehow crawled up it, and emerged, shaking and sweating, onto the circular path round the lantern itself.
The path was maybe 4 feet wide, with a wall that was only about 4 feet high, so it was almost impossible not to look down.
I remember pressing my back to the lantern to try and stay as far from the wall as I could, staring resolutely to the horizon, as I generally find that the more horizontal my view the less fear I have. Strangely though, I find that trying to look up is even worse than looking down, as it makes me feel even more disconnected from the ground.
I felt a complete numpty, as children were running round the lantern, and other people were standing peering down the wall of the lighthouse.
..

Great post CK, I had an almost identical experience climbing Smeaton's Tower lighthouse when I lived in Plymouth (so late 1980s)
I can remember it had a spiral staircase inside (I think) and when I got to he top I was almost rigid with fear and couldn't get near the rails.
It's only about 75ft high, and on Plymouth Hoe not Eddystone Rock!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smeaton%2 ... th_Hoe.jpg

[AleisterCrowley]

I share your suffering as someone who has issues with height. Not only does it make me feel nauseous, but I have an irrational "urge" to want to "jump off". I....

Anyway, I have climbed Ben Nevis, Snowdon and Scaffell Pike, none of which are particularly difficult climbs, or phobia inducing, if using the "easy" routes. That is the "mountain path" from Nevis Visitor centre, Llanberis path (by the railway), and Wasdale, respectively.

.

I was looking at Scafell Pike, and the approach looks fairly innocuous (with a chance of broken ankles on all that scree/rubble) I can't see any steep drop/nasty edges on the easy route unless I missed them, top looks very 'rounded'

Thing is, if I DID do Scafell, would it be 'challenging' enough to cure my phobia. I could walk up safe slopes all day without effect other than leg muscles tiring!
CK mentioned a woman of his acquaintance who did a bungee jump which seemed to cure her. Possibly an option as bungee jumps are (a)terrifying to me (b) very safe if I have a wobble/pass out/panic attack as, unlike Bwlch Main , one is attached to solid stuff and will not fall 500ft to a certain death after one stumble
I'm not planning on a 300ft jump from a crane though. This young woman has more physical, and importantly mental, strength than me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3oNypXCkE8
..actually the trip up in the crane basket would kill me, never mind jumping out of it

[scotia]

I'm getting back to my suggestion on medical help - usually GPs have experienced many patients with irrational anxieties, and will have a good idea what might be worth trying. I mentioned an SSRI, but non-drug solutions such as Cognitive Behaviour or Mindfulness may prove useful. I would advise that you seek medical advice, long before "all else has failed" . You may get a good quality of life back much more reliably by such a policy.

[AleisterCrowley]

I'm avoiding the local health centre currently (although I'm not particularly 'virophobic' if that's a word)

[dealtn]

I share your suffering as someone who has issues with height. Not only does it make me feel nauseous, but I have an irrational "urge" to want to "jump off". I....

Anyway, I have climbed Ben Nevis, Snowdon and Scaffell Pike, none of which are particularly difficult climbs, or phobia inducing, if using the "easy" routes. That is the "mountain path" from Nevis Visitor centre, Llanberis path (by the railway), and Wasdale, respectively.

.

Thing is, if I DID do Scafell, would it be 'challenging' enough to cure my phobia.

I doubt it. I don't expect ever to be cured of mine. and am seeking no such thing. All I would say is you have to face it, and live with it. Mine can be triggered by photos as well as the real thing, but I try and sensibly challenge myself and enjoy an outdoor life the best I can.

[UncleEbenezer]

I'm avoiding the local health centre currently (although I'm not particularly 'virophobic' if that's a word)

Hmmm. You have no great fear of men (vir).

[AleisterCrowley]

Hmm. Mysophobia, or germaphobia perhaps.

[AleisterCrowley]

Commiserations, AC. If it's getting you down as much as you say, it would be sensible to get some help, or just get it looked at. ....
My wife is a psychotherapist, and her professional world is full of weird and wonderful explanations for this sort of thing. So I won't propose that you're suffering post-traumatic shock from the day your little brother threw your teddy down a lift shaft. (Unless you know better?) T'would be better, for the moment, to check off the more likely explanations.
...
As Monabri has said, it's common for an aversion to heights to set in as we age
BJ

Thanks BJ
Based on reading internet articles (!) it seems to partly genetic, and partly learnt behaviour - either from trauma, or picking it up from parents
No height trauma 'trigger' in my life , but my mum is a sufferer . She blames it on seeing Hitchcock's 'Vertigo' when it first came out.. I can always remember her having trouble with heights, so the anxiety could have imprinted itself on me (so....can I unlearn it?)

I do want to get it 'looked at' before it's too late.

[Sobraon]

Bit of a reverse path for me. I had vertigo/fear of heights as a kid possibly as a result of a fall from a tree at 8 but this went away completely after a couple of seasons skiing as an adult after the age of 22 (last time I felt it). Now completely happy with heights (ladders, roof ridges and low parapet walls etc.) and glass floors in skyscrapers (e.g. Willis Tower's Skydeck). The weird thing is I can remember what the fear felt like then but I just don’t feel it anymore.
OP Maybe have a season alpine skiing?

[bungeejumper]

Based on reading internet articles (!) it seems to partly genetic, and partly learnt behaviour - either from trauma, or picking it up from parents
No height trauma 'trigger' in my life , but my mum is a sufferer . She blames it on seeing Hitchcock's 'Vertigo' when it first came out.. I can always remember her having trouble with heights, so the anxiety could have imprinted itself on me (so....can I unlearn it?)

The issue of generational/genetic transfer is interesting, because it's a lot more possible to talk about it than it was in the late sixties, when I was reading psychology at uni.

In those egalitarian days we thought it was a massive genetic slur to suggest that anybody could be lumbered with something that hadn't resulted directly from their own lives. The politically-correct line was that everybody started out at birth with the same blank slate in their brain, and of course it was just stupid. As I found out when I married somebody whose family had been grappling with a secret psychological prob that was much worse than vertigo for five or six generations, or maybe more. Oops, that marriage didn't last long....

As the years have rolled by, I find that my dad's peculiarities have come down to me - for instance, he didn't like watching TV drama because he really hated suspense, and nor do I very much. (Although my mum watched drama all the time, so there wasn't any obvious environmental influence on me there.) So the idea that you could inherit vertigo is as logical as supposing that you could inherit musical ability, or language ability, or a techie fascination, or assorted brainy issues, both good and bad. Such as psychosis, at the extreme end, which is nowadays thought to be at least 65% inherited. Or a low pain threshold, which red-haired women are statistically more likely to have.

It's very possible that parental phobias can be culturally transferred to children without a single word being said, but I'm sure I wouldn't know how? What's odd in AC's case is that he didn't have this phobia in his early years, and I'd be asking what has changed?

Either way, engage with it, don't dodge it, because it's making you miserable and it probably won't go away on its own. These days, the old-fashioned Jungian analysis game ("come and see me twice a week for the rest of your life, Mr Smith") is being widely supplanted by something called Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, which is shallower (boo hiss) but often very effective at helping people to deal with illogical fears and aversions. And a hell of a lot quicker, too. Hooray. Just a thought, anyway.

BJ