Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

[Bouleversee]

Of course they don't care about me as an individual but if they want to avoid a 2nd wave, the best chance is to make everyone wear a mask. Their main concern is the economy and that will not recover unless people have the confidence to go shopping and resume activities without fear of infection. That is my opinion and it is as valid as yours. I have nothing else to say on the subject and will not be reading any more posts in this context.

[servodude]

I found this an interesting read on masks
https://theconversation.com/amp/mask-re ... ers-141687

-sd

[Nimrod103]

I see that there is a spike in cases in Crawley. That includes Gatwick, so is there any connection? If arrivals are being tested, that could explain the spike. However Crawley also has an above average level of Asian families, many of whom work in the airport. There could be a connection. There seems to be a number in health related occupations, and the young woman who often does my eye inspections comes from Crawley, having a sub-continent heritage. On the other hand, my dentist in Crawley is Persian and the hygienist is of Indian descent.

It's white people spreading this disease, didn't you know? Look at all the early people who had it. Whites who feel it their right to travel the world spreading their germs, pack themselves into ski resort bars, or consort with underage Thais, then bring home the stuff they've caught.

GS
P.S. Don't be offended, just stating scientific facts.

I don’t believe Thailand was a significant source, nor in fact a source at all of infection. Do you have a thing about underage Thais? Most UK infections came from Spain and Italy according to genetic studies. Via any colour of person.
However, we are now at the stage of trying to understand and eradicate more localised outbreaks, and reports in the BBC and DM about Leicester, Blackburn and other such towns show that most misbehaving vectors are in the ‘South Asian’ ethnic group.

[dealtn]

Of course they don't care about me as an individual but if they want to avoid a 2nd wave, the best chance is to make everyone wear a mask. Their main concern is the economy and that will not recover unless people have the confidence to go shopping and resume activities without fear of infection. That is my opinion and it is as valid as yours. I have nothing else to say on the subject and will not be reading any more posts in this context.

I'm not a big shopper, but I am less likely to be shopping if I have to wear a mask (and the same with other "activities"), so it works both ways as far as economic confidence is concerned.

[redsturgeon]

Moderator Message:
Please keep the discussion here away from Polite Discussion territory.

[ursaminortaur]

My question is why Matt Hancock thinks they are effective in shops but not in schools and workplaces?

It's difficult to judge without him explicitly explaining himself, but I suspect there's an element of 'bubbles' to the different approaches.

In workplaces and in schools, there is going to naturally be an element of repetitive 'bubbles', which in and of themselves will limit the extent of any potential cross-infection at the borders of those bubbles.

Only if you consider the whole organisation to be a bubble or restrict everybody to virtual meetings. Staff and managers will generally be having multiple meetings each week with people from other departments and some managers may well be using the old strategy of Management by Walking Around. Hence it would be relatively easy for an infection to pass from one department to another.
https://medium.com/leading-and-managing/management-by-walking-around-motivating-and-developing-staff-9bac6258f544

[Itsallaguess]

My question is why Matt Hancock thinks they are effective in shops but not in schools and workplaces?

It's difficult to judge without him explicitly explaining himself, but I suspect there's an element of 'bubbles' to the different approaches.

In workplaces and in schools, there is going to naturally be an element of repetitive 'bubbles', which in and of themselves will limit the extent of any potential cross-infection at the borders of those bubbles.

Only if you consider the whole organisation to be a bubble or restrict everybody to virtual meetings.

Staff and managers will generally be having multiple meetings each week with people from other departments and some managers may well be using the old strategy of Management by Walking Around.

Hence it would be relatively easy for an infection to pass from one department to another.

Well, it depends on how able or serious each setting is able to be regarding this issue...

I know of one large organisation that has split their large site into sub-zones and are very stringently managing inter-zone risk..

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Itsallaguess]

I am trying to find a source of data that shows infection rates by area, so I can browse the town or city a potential customer is from before travelling to them.

This info seem to be withheld by the government now, unless someone knows otherwise!

Cross-post to a Health board post, giving a link to the new UK Covid-cases 'Postcode map' -

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=22298&p=326736#p326736

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[swill453]

Cross-post to a Health board post, giving a link to the new UK Covid-cases 'Postcode map' -

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=22298&p=326736#p326736

Unless I've missed an option or something, it appears to not be the UK, but only England.

Scott.

[Itsallaguess]

Cross-post to a Health board post, giving a link to the new UK Covid-cases 'Postcode map' -

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=22298&p=326736#p326736

Unless I've missed an option or something, it appears to not be the UK, but only England.

Thanks - I think you're right.

Hopefully still a useful resource for those interested in this level of detail.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Leothebear]

Has there been any progress determining whether surviving the virus gives the survivor immunity?

[swill453]

Hopefully still a useful resource for those interested in this level of detail.

Thinking about it, having Scotland entirely blank in the map isn't too far from the truth anyway

Scott.

[Mike4]

I am trying to find a source of data that shows infection rates by area, so I can browse the town or city a potential customer is from before travelling to them.

This info seem to be withheld by the government now, unless someone knows otherwise!

Cross-post to a Health board post, giving a link to the new UK Covid-cases 'Postcode map' -

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=22298&p=326736#p326736

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Thanks, just what I was looking for, almost.

"Almost', because it appears to be a map for one specific time period, using data from about a week ago. So already slightly out of date - maybe they will update it every week or so...

[dealtn]

Has there been any progress determining whether surviving the virus gives the survivor immunity?

Not that I've seen. Although I think there have been 14 million or so known cases across the world, and as far as I know they haven't found anyone who has "got it" twice yet. I think it's one of those things that is difficult to prove scientifically, but anecdotally it appears to be the case, although it isn't known how long such an immunity lasts.

[UncleEbenezer]

Anecdotal data point re: how face masks are likely to spread this and other lurgies.

I did supermarket shopping this morning. As I went to return my trolley, I saw discarded face masks in the empty trollies there. So any germs a wearer might have had - now highly concentrated - are infecting a line of trollies, and by extension the supermarket, and perhaps even the food.

[Mike4]

Has there been any progress determining whether surviving the virus gives the survivor immunity?

Not that I've seen. Although I think there have been 14 million or so known cases across the world, and as far as I know they haven't found anyone who has "got it" twice yet. I think it's one of those things that is difficult to prove scientifically, but anecdotally it appears to be the case, although it isn't known how long such an immunity lasts.

There are 'lots' of anecdotal cases of people getting it twice according to Dr Martenson. He did an in depth video recently examining the possibility and includes an interview with the doctor husband of one proven case. The doctor's wife caught it, recovered including negative PCR tests, then caught it again three months later IIRC. Will see if I can find it.

Here it is. He's rather 'hyper' in delivery but his content seems thorough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhyEBIpaIaM

P.S. skip forward and start watching at 2.00 minutes where discussion of this subject begins.

[SalvorHardin]

Increasingly it looks like the authorities have decided to base their advice on this video from the American singer and comedienne Adley Stump, which she made last April (it's a spoof press announcement about the rules for dealing with the coronavirus).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVs5AyjzwRM

I used to think that the "Man eaten by shark dies of coronavirus" meme was a joke. It turns out that Public Health England (PHE) treat this as a rule, because they've been recording any death of a person who has tested positive for coronavirus as a coronavirus death. PHE has thus decided that it is impossible to recover from the coronavirus, even if you have recovered. A truly spectacular error, one that the country will be paying for for decades.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-health-secretary-matt-hancock-orders-urgent-review-into-public-health-england-death-data-12030392

Imagine setting policy on the basis of the figures produced by a department that is this incompetent. We don't need to imagine this because that is what has been happening. So much for our "world class civil service".

[Alaric]

Imagine setting policy on the basis of the figures produced by a department that is this incompetent. We don't need to imagine this because that is what has been happening. So much for our "world class civil service".

It reminds me a bit of the slightly baffling statistics that students always showed a net immigration total despite the obvious point that courses are only for a limited period of time. It turns out that rather than counting them out and counting them back they just measured the number of students coming to the UK to study and offset that by the number of UK students leaving.

[scotia]

Increasingly it looks like the authorities have decided to base their advice on this video from the American singer and comedienne Adley Stump, which she made last April (it's a spoof press announcement about the rules for dealing with the coronavirus).

If you want to get a true estimate of the effect of Covid-19 on deaths , simply look at the excess mortality statistics compared to historical averages - and ignore any attempts to identify which are or are not associated with Covid-19. The UK peak is obvious - and hopefully we should see a dip below the multi-year average, due to a number of frail and elderly persons having died slightly prematurely. Another useful statistic is the number of persons in intensive care - again compared to historical averages. And just ignore the English statistics, whether or not they have a statistical anomaly.

[ursaminortaur]

Has there been any progress determining whether surviving the virus gives the survivor immunity?

Not that I've seen. Although I think there have been 14 million or so known cases across the world, and as far as I know they haven't found anyone who has "got it" twice yet. I think it's one of those things that is difficult to prove scientifically, but anecdotally it appears to be the case, although it isn't known how long such an immunity lasts.

There are 'lots' of anecdotal cases of people getting it twice according to Dr Martenson. He did an in depth video recently examining the possibility and includes an interview with the doctor husband of one proven case. The doctor's wife caught it, recovered including negative PCR tests, then caught it again three months later IIRC. Will see if I can find it.

Here it is. He's rather 'hyper' in delivery but his content seems thorough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhyEBIpaIaM

P.S. skip forward and start watching at 2.00 minutes where discussion of this subject begins.

There were reports only a few days ago suggesting that immunity after infection only lasts a few months

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-immunity-may-only-last-a-few-months-study-suggests-12027655