Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

[UncleEbenezer]

The incident:

On 11 May, it was reported to BTP that a 47-year-old lady, Belly Mujinga, had been spat and coughed at while working in the ticket hall with two colleagues on 21 March.

We don't know who "reported" it, or what exactly they reported, though it does say she had been "spat at". Malicious? Or simply somebody was coughing and spitting? It's a mystery.

Yes I know that's what was reported, but BTP haven't confirmed that was what took place. Like I said, even if coronavirus wasn't involved, a member of the public spitting at officials would likely be a criminal offence in any case.

I accept that one of those involved is no longer around to give evidence, but BTP seem to have satisfied themselves that an "incident" took place, but haven't said what it was.

Scott.

Police have a lot of difficult judgement cases to make: will a prosecution succeed, will it backfire spectacularly on them, is it proportionate? No action is the most usual outcome, this case and Cummings being two instances recently in the news.

[ElectronicFur]

The incident:

On 11 May, it was reported to BTP that a 47-year-old lady, Belly Mujinga, had been spat and coughed at while working in the ticket hall with two colleagues on 21 March.

We don't know who "reported" it, or what exactly they reported, though it does say she had been "spat at". Malicious? Or simply somebody was coughing and spitting? It's a mystery.

Even in normal times, spitting at someone is classed as assault. They say no crime occurred, which would mean they think he didn't spit at her.

They say they reviewed footage and spoke to witnesses. And they are confident the incident didn't lead to her death. They could only really be confident if CCTV footage showed, or witnesses said, that nothing happened. So it's odd that they left it so vague in their statement.

[XFool]

'This man knows he's dying as surely as I do': a doctor's dispatches from the NHS frontline

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/ ... nsive-care

As lockdown is relaxed, many in the NHS are left reeling. Palliative care doctor Rachel Clarke shares her experience working with coronavirus patients, and her fears of a second wave

[XFool]

The incident:

On 11 May, it was reported to BTP that a 47-year-old lady, Belly Mujinga, had been spat and coughed at while working in the ticket hall with two colleagues on 21 March.

We don't know who "reported" it, or what exactly they reported, though it does say she had been "spat at". Malicious? Or simply somebody was coughing and spitting? It's a mystery.

Even in normal times, spitting at someone is classed as assault. They say no crime occurred, which would mean they think he didn't spit at her.

No. That's not what they said.

Following a review of all the information, senior detectives have concluded that there is no evidence to substantiate any criminal offences having taken place, and that the tragic death of Belly Mujinga was not a consequence of this incident.

No evidence. Which means there was no crime or there was no substantive evidence of a crime.

They say they reviewed footage and spoke to witnesses. And they are confident the incident didn't lead to her death.

Yes. But that is a separate matter. It leaves open whether there was or was not an assault.

They could only really be confident if CCTV footage showed, or witnesses said, that nothing happened. So it's odd that they left it so vague in their statement.

Indeed. But while the CCTV footage would surely have shown if he had taken a swing at her, could have shown nothing at all if he assaulted her by spitting. The truth is we just don't know what, if anything, happened.

[Bubblesofearth]

'This man knows he's dying as surely as I do': a doctor's dispatches from the NHS frontline

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/ ... nsive-care

As lockdown is relaxed, many in the NHS are left reeling. Palliative care doctor Rachel Clarke shares her experience working with coronavirus patients, and her fears of a second wave

The biggest risk of a second wave will come from people exposed to Covid patients who do not self isolate. Most of these will be healthcare workers who are not exhibiting symptoms or before they test positive (assuming testing).

BoE

[ElectronicFur]

They could only really be confident if CCTV footage showed, or witnesses said, that nothing happened. So it's odd that they left it so vague in their statement.

Indeed. But while the CCTV footage would surely have shown if he had taken a swing at her, could have shown nothing at all if he assaulted her by spitting. The truth is we just don't know what, if anything, happened.

I don't see how they could be confident, if they still thought the spitting at them could have occurred, but they were just lacking any evidence that it occurred. Unless they also tested the suspect, but they don't mention that. And their original statement at the time said 3 members of staff in the ticket hall were spat at. So that's at least 3 witnesses for a prosecution, so not sure how they can state they don't have enough evidence to say whether a crime occurred. Like I said their statement left things very vague.

[ElectronicFur]

Now an updated statement.

"based on key witness statements and having reviewed the CCTV footage, there is no evidence of anyone spitting in this incident."

"Senior detectives are confident that this incident did not lead to Belly Mujinga contracting Covid-19. This is because the man in the CCTV footage who detectives interviewed as part of the investigation had a negative antibody test result for Covid-19 in the time after the incident, therefore showing that he had never had the illness. The man’s test did not relate to the BTP investigation – he was tested as part of his occupation and the test results were shared with us during the investigation"

https://media.btp.police.uk/r/17231/upd ... ation_inve

[gryffron]

So this "ticket office worker" wasn't in the ticket office, wasn't spat at, and didn't catch Covid this way. In other words, the press reports were completely and utterly wrong in every respect.

Will journalists be forced to resign for repeating this pack of lies.

[GoSeigen]

"gryffron"forced to resign

Funny concept.

GS

[XFool]

Now an updated statement.

"based on key witness statements and having reviewed the CCTV footage, there is no evidence of anyone spitting in this incident."

"Senior detectives are confident that this incident did not lead to Belly Mujinga contracting Covid-19. This is because the man in the CCTV footage who detectives interviewed as part of the investigation had a negative antibody test result for Covid-19 in the time after the incident, therefore showing that he had never had the illness. The man’s test did not relate to the BTP investigation – he was tested as part of his occupation and the test results were shared with us during the investigation"

https://media.btp.police.uk/r/17231/upd ... ation_inve

Ho hum!

We want to be clear on why we decided not to take any further action – based on key witness statements and having reviewed the CCTV footage, there is no evidence of anyone spitting in this incident.

So either:

1. There was no spitting (doesn't rule out coughing!).
2. There might have been spitting, but no concrete evidence for it has been found.

Senior detectives are confident that this incident did not lead to Belly Mujinga contracting Covid-19.

From before, we were told it had not lead to her death, no? So this meant either (non exclusively):

1. She died of something not related to COVID-19.
2. She already had COVID-19 before this incident and subsequently died.
3. The accused has been found not to be infected with COVID-19 virus (medical evidence).
4. The spitting etc. did not happen.

This is because the man in the CCTV footage who detectives interviewed as part of the investigation had a negative antibody test result for Covid-19 in the time after the incident, therefore showing that he had never had the illness.

Right. So number 3 above applies, at least.

Having reviewed all the evidence, senior detectives are satisfied that the incident didn’t lead to Belly Mujinga’s death.

Right. But we already knew this from the previous report, no?

We are still in the dark as to what the reported 'incident' actually was, and we will clearly remain that way.

Help! I think I'm losing the will to live...

[ElectronicFur]

We are still in the dark as to what the reported 'incident' actually was, and we will clearly remain that way.

We know what the reported incident was from the original police statement:

"British Transport Police (BTP) are today confirming further details in connection to an incident at Victoria Station, London, in March.

On Saturday 21 March at around 11.20am, three members of railway staff were working in the ticket hall at the station.

It was reported that they were spat and coughed at by a man claiming to be infected with Coronavirus.

On 2 April, one of the victims, a 47-year-old lady, was admitted to hospital where she tested positive for Coronavirus.

Very sadly, she died on 5 April."

https://media.btp.police.uk/r/17214/sta ... t_victoria

And we now know that from key witness statements and CCTV footage the police say there is no evidence of anyone spitting in this incident. We don't know who reported the incident. Probably someone other that the 3 staff members mentioned, as they would be key witnesses, so it would be odd if they reported it but their statements don't support that the spitting occurred.

[redsturgeon]

Interesting meeting with an old friend this morning, he was visiting my city to take his wife to the hospital and came round for a cup of tea.

He showed me his certificate of a positive antibody test (lab test) for covid 19. He had caught it from his sister in law in the week before the lock down in London. She had caught it from a friend playing table tennis...he was a 61 year old man who subsequently died.

He had no symptoms other than feeling very tired for three days, he is 65, he was then locked down with his wife, who is on chemo and she did not catch it!

He found out a couple of weeks later from his brother that he had probably had Covid and then took the test that he showed me.

Since I have a some antibody tests, I administered one to him and sure enough it showed positive for IgG but not IgM.

John

[swill453]

He showed me his certificate of a positive antibody test (lab test) for covid 19. He had caught it from his sister in law in the week before the lock down in London. She had caught it from a friend playing table tennis...he was a 61 year old man who subsequently died.

Can anybody be as certain as that as to where they caught it?

Scott.

[redsturgeon]

He showed me his certificate of a positive antibody test (lab test) for covid 19. He had caught it from his sister in law in the week before the lock down in London. She had caught it from a friend playing table tennis...he was a 61 year old man who subsequently died.

Can anybody be as certain as that as to where they caught it?

Scott.

Never certain but if the only time you have been out and in contact with anyone outside of your house has been for a table tennis game and the guy you played actually dies from Covid 19 then I think it is a fair assumption outside of a court of law.

Let's just say she thinks she caught it from that guy.

John

[XFool]

Interesting programme on C4 this evening 9 - 10pm, Dispatches: Britain's Corona Catastrophe

(The 'exponential' word even got a mention - but I didn't say that!)

[redsturgeon]

Interesting programme on C4 this evening 9 - 10pm, Dispatches: Britain's Corona Catastrophe

(The 'exponential' word even got a mention - but I didn't say that!)

I watched it, I even smiled when the word was mentioned.

It was especially damning of the governments response. In particular the tardiness and vacillation around the measures that eventually led to locking down too late. The disbelief around Europe in our response, letting the Liverpool football match go ahead and Cheltenham. Apparently it was an angry phone call from Macron that finally put a rocket up Boris Johnson to do something!

I remember posting something on this thread around that time and was told not to be silly and the science was that large events did not affect the spread that much!


John

[jackdaww]

when i heard about this virus very early this year - two points gave immediate concern .

that it was very dangerous , and it was possible to be infected and to infect for up to 14 days before any symptoms showed up .

it was clear to me , a simple layman, that a global lockdown was essential and urgent .

not rocket science .

we are still getting five times more deaths than any other european country .

my impression on ministers and medics is massive muddle and unease .

i also wonder what part cummings has played .

[swill453]

we are still getting five times more deaths than any other european country .

Actually more deaths announced here today than the entire EU combined.

Yet some still consider Boris is doing a good job.

Scott.

[servodude]

Yet some still consider Boris is doing a good job.

To be fair to Boris, he is really good at a sense of exceptionalism and slogans
- that's what he was elected on
- that's what he has delivered

- sd

[zico]

we are still getting five times more deaths than any other european country .

Actually more deaths announced here today than the entire EU combined.

Yet some still consider Boris is doing a good job.

Scott.

To be fair, the program did feature a government quote about the UK being a world-leader in dealing with Covid-19 and so we are.