The Lemon Fool

ursaminortaur wrote:

bungeejumper wrote:

ursaminortaur wrote:One you missed out is potential brain damage

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/08/warning-of-serious-brain-disorders-in-people-with-mild-covid-symptoms

Indeed. Our distant outlaws in Texas (ranch-owning one percenters) have been reduced to cowering in their home, fearful of letting the illegal Mexican maids into the house in case they bring the virus with them. They're wealthy enough to be able to hospitalise their way out of any infection (they hope), but the thought of a lingering incapacity afterwards is freaking them out pretty badly.

The BBC news site this morning (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53252483) says that 14.1% of coronavirus tests in Texas are coming up positive, rising to 24.4% in Arizona. The outlaws would be on a plane to Europe right now, if only they could find somewhere they'd be welcome. And a safe taxi to the airport, of course.

BJ

The Mexicans appear to be more afraid of the Americans

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/08/mexico-border-towns-stop-americans-crossing-covid-19-coronavirus

Mexico border towns try to stop Americans crossing amid Covid-19 fears

Townspeople block road to beach resort popular with US tourists as cases surge in states including Arizona

Broadly speaking, it looks as though a proportion of the population is finally figuring out for themselves that infected people travelling about massively increases the spreading around of the infection. The epidemiologists have known this from the start but people don't want to hear it. Here in the UK, people whined like mad about incoming travellers being quarantined and nowadays seem to be completely ignoring the lock down.

Swerving off at a tangent, are the regulations saying we must not leave our homes without good reason still in force? If not, when did they get cancelled? I've not heard a peep about it from the BBC.

Mike4 wrote:

ursaminortaur wrote:

bungeejumper wrote:Indeed. Our distant outlaws in Texas (ranch-owning one percenters) have been reduced to cowering in their home, fearful of letting the illegal Mexican maids into the house in case they bring the virus with them. They're wealthy enough to be able to hospitalise their way out of any infection (they hope), but the thought of a lingering incapacity afterwards is freaking them out pretty badly.

The BBC news site this morning (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53252483) says that 14.1% of coronavirus tests in Texas are coming up positive, rising to 24.4% in Arizona. The outlaws would be on a plane to Europe right now, if only they could find somewhere they'd be welcome. And a safe taxi to the airport, of course.

BJ

The Mexicans appear to be more afraid of the Americans

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/08/mexico-border-towns-stop-americans-crossing-covid-19-coronavirus

Mexico border towns try to stop Americans crossing amid Covid-19 fears

Townspeople block road to beach resort popular with US tourists as cases surge in states including Arizona

Broadly speaking, it looks as though a proportion of the population is finally figuring out for themselves that infected people travelling about massively increases the spreading around of the infection. The epidemiologists have known this from the start but people don't want to hear it. Here in the UK, people whined like mad about incoming travellers being quarantined and nowadays seem to be completely ignoring the lock down.

Swerving off at a tangent, are the regulations saying we must not leave our homes without good reason still in force? If not, when did they get cancelled? I've not heard a peep about it from the BBC.

I think that the government just expanded the "good reasons" to just about anything.

This aged person has just come back from lunch at Wetherspoon's, which was a pleasant affair, except that their app kept crashing at the paying stage. Back to method 'A'. Well organised, hand sanitation on entrance. Given a contact sheet to complete for track and trace, if needed. Plenty of space between tables and fewer patrons. Mrs TJH said it was nice to go out for a curry again.

I enjoyed my pint.

TJH

Mike4 wrote:
Swerving off at a tangent, are the regulations saying we must not leave our homes without good reason still in force? If not, when did they get cancelled? I've not heard a peep about it from the BBC.

That legislation was cancelled from 11 May 2020 https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... rom-others.

Gersemi wrote:

Mike4 wrote:
Swerving off at a tangent, are the regulations saying we must not leave our homes without good reason still in force? If not, when did they get cancelled? I've not heard a peep about it from the BBC.

That legislation was cancelled from 11 May 2020 https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... rom-others.

Actually that Guidance was withdrawn on 11th May 2020 (my bold). Some of this was underpinned by legislation, specifically The Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020, but many of the "rules" weren't rules or enshrined in law.

tjh290633 wrote:This aged person has just come back from lunch at Wetherspoon's, which was a pleasant affair, except that their app kept crashing at the paying stage. Back to method 'A'. Well organised, hand sanitation on entrance. Given a contact sheet to complete for track and trace, if needed. Plenty of space between tables and fewer patrons. Mrs TJH said it was nice to go out for a curry again.
I enjoyed my pint.

TJH

Did you have to complete the contact sheet before they'd serve you? I'm betting that wasn't the case.
I visited a cafe that had a supposed "track and trace" system which worked as follows -
a) Give customer a piece of paper with the cafe's email address.
b) Ask customer to email them in their own good time, and then if there's an outbreak, the cafe will of course contact everyone who visited them, and also use their psychic powers to contact the customers who didn't email them.

Unfortunately for the "system", I stuffed the piece of paper in my pocket, then threw it away later. I very much doubt that I'm unique in this.

Today we visited a different cafe where they asked for our name & email address before serving us, and then input it immediately to their system - that's a proper system. I'm concerned that the places where they cut corners on "track and trace" will also be the places where an outbreak is more likely, because they'll also cut corners in other areas.

Just on the August Dishi Rishi Tenner Off Offer, you only get £10 per person off if you actually have a sit-down meal in the restaurant. If you order the same meal as a takeaway, you have to pay the full price.

Am I missing something here, or is this absolutely barking mad? Isn't the aim to restart the hospitality economy while minimising the risk to people of catching Covid?

Couple of comments from my undertaker friend. Not sure how true they are.

Business this year has been brisk. May was his busiest month ever, 30+ years in the trade.
BUT
Last year was very slow, deaths 17% down on previous years. So he suspects most of the surplus this year has simply been "catch up" from last year. I can't check that figure anywhere. Nor show whether it is a national phenomenon. Interesting that all the national comparisons of "surplus deaths" have been vs 10 year average. Not vs last year.

Also,
He hasn't seen a single death certificate since March mention pneumonia as cause of death. This is unusual as it is usually a common cause of death in old folks. He suspects medics are writing "covid-19" on absolutely anyone with anything from a mild sniffle upwards, tested or not. Because it avoids the cost and bother of the inquests that normally follow medical(*) deaths.

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

Gryff

(*)edit: I suppose all deaths are technically medical deaths, but I mean caused by medical conditions rather than simply old age.

gryffron wrote: I can't check that figure anywhere. Nor show whether it is a national phenomenon. Interesting that all the national comparisons of "surplus deaths" have been vs 10 year average. Not vs last year.

The ONS has been collecting statistics for years.

Have a browse

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... lresidence

gryffron wrote:Also,
He hasn't seen a single death certificate since March mention pneumonia as cause of death. This is unusual as it is usually a common cause of death in old folks. He suspects medics are writing "covid-19" on absolutely anyone with anything from a mild sniffle upwards, tested or not. Because it avoids the cost and bother of the inquests that normally follow medical(*) deaths.

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

As I understand it, the medical trade takes the 'cause of death' entered on death certificates deadly seriously, if you'll excuse the pun.

Any doctor found to be putting the wrong cause of death on a death certificate finds themselves in deep professional trouble so I very much doubt the reason for what you describe is to avoid 'cost and bother'. Again AIUI, but I think we have a few medics on here who might confirm (or contradict) what I've just written.

Mike4 wrote:

gryffron wrote:He hasn't seen a single death certificate since March mention pneumonia as cause of death. This is unusual as it is usually a common cause of death in old folks. He suspects medics are writing "covid-19" on absolutely anyone with anything from a mild sniffle upwards, tested or not. Because it avoids the cost and bother of the inquests that normally follow medical(*) deaths.

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

As I understand it, the medical trade takes the 'cause of death' entered on death certificates deadly seriously, if you'll excuse the pun.

Any doctor found to be putting the wrong cause of death on a death certificate finds themselves in deep professional trouble so I very much doubt the reason for what you describe is to avoid 'cost and bother'. Again AIUI, but I think we have a few medics on here who might confirm (or contradict) what I've just written.

In a hospital it is the attending physician who signs the cause of death. In my experience that is usually at the Registrar level or higher. That is not actually the death certificate itself since that is issued later by the local authority. But it is on the Medical Certificate for the Cause of Death, which is what you need to register the death and get the death certificate.

There are extra steps if the deceased is to be cremated since that rules out a later post-mortem. Typically a second doctor has to sign the form.

Inquests are unusual but post mortems are not.

zico wrote:

tjh290633 wrote:This aged person has just come back from lunch at Wetherspoon's, which was a pleasant affair, except that their app kept crashing at the paying stage. Back to method 'A'. Well organised, hand sanitation on entrance. Given a contact sheet to complete for track and trace, if needed. Plenty of space between tables and fewer patrons. Mrs TJH said it was nice to go out for a curry again.
I enjoyed my pint.

TJH

Did you have to complete the contact sheet before they'd serve you? I'm betting that wasn't the case.

No, you had to put it in the box provided as you left. Name, contact number, time of arrival and departure and table number.

In my barber's shop, they wrote it on a sheet of paper.

TJH

TJH

No, you had to put it in the box provided as you left. Name, contact number, time of arrival and departure and table number.

TJH

Was there somebody stopping people from leaving unless a completed form was put in the box? If not, the system doesn't work.

zico wrote:
Was there somebody stopping people from leaving unless a completed form was put in the box? If not, the system doesn't work.

Unless people are compliant nothing will work.

BoE

Lootman wrote:There are extra steps if the deceased is to be cremated since that rules out a later post-mortem. Typically a second doctor has to sign the form.

A fee used to be charged (still is?). Doctors called this "ash cash"

The hospitality industry have been filling in mandated forms about food standards for years.
Generating a full contact list at, let us say short notice is not going to phase anyone with 20 minutes experience in the industry!
And god bless zico, but intercepting people LEAVING Wetherspoons - I would pay to watch.

W.

zico wrote:Am I missing something here, or is this absolutely barking mad? Isn't the aim to restart the hospitality economy while minimising the risk to people of catching Covid?

No. It's economic only. Other Government policies may be to do with healthcare, and Covid specifically, but this isn't one of them.

zico wrote:
I visited a cafe that had a supposed "track and trace" system which worked as follows -

a) Give customer a piece of paper with the cafe's email address.

b) Ask customer to email them in their own good time, and then if there's an outbreak, the cafe will of course contact everyone who visited them, and also use their psychic powers to contact the customers who didn't email them.

Unfortunately for the "system", I stuffed the piece of paper in my pocket, then threw it away later.

Threw it away?

I've got to point out that having read much of what you've had to say regarding the on-going virus situation, it's a shame that the very high standards that you regularly expect of others doesn't seem to have actually applied to you on this occasion...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Itsallaguess wrote:[
Threw it away?

I've got to point out that having read much of what you've had to say regarding the on-going virus situation, it's a shame that the very high standards that you regularly expect of others doesn't seem to have actually applied to you on this occasion...

Cheers,
Itsallaguess

Yes, you're quite right and I was wrong. I've now found out the cafe's email and sent in my details. I actually threw the paper away by accident, but even so, it was wrong not to find their email address.
Thanks for pointing it out and encouraging me to do the right thing.

zico wrote:Am I missing something here, or is this absolutely barking mad? Isn't the aim to restart the hospitality economy while minimising the risk to people of catching Covid?

Surely the offer is no different to the kind of Monday to Thursday discounts the restaurants would normally give anyway as an occasional promotion? It's just that they are not having to discount because the government is paying the £10. Without understanding the psychology behind this kind of offer it may not make sense.

It is based on the fact that many people taking up the offer and sitting in the restaurant will feel because they've been given £10 and they're out having a good time after being locked down for months that they'll spend that tenner on a bottle of wine, a round of cocktails etc. Of course, we all know where restaurants really make their money, and it's not on food... it's those bottles of wine and cocktails with 400-500% markup!

I think it's a really clever thing to do, but you'd maybe need to understand the darker arts of marketing to see through it. Many people now feel like they've got a tenner sitting in their pocket. Of course, they haven't really, but they won't want to lose it and the lure of spending it will be too much for millions of people. Not me though

All the best, Si

I've just seen a news flash saying that the head of WHO says the pandemic is accelerating, the no. of cases having doubled in the last 6 weeks. Perhaps too soon to celebrate.