Senior isolation

[elkay]

Genuine question; there have been references to buckets and dishes of soapy water.

My understanding is that washing with soap and water removes the virus from your hands and washes it down the drain, and doesn't actually kill the virus. So these solutions just dilute the virus..and a soapy cloth will be a carrier itself.

Does soap and water kill the virus?

[scotia]

When out walking at Loch Katrine on Friday, the one dubious interaction required was inserting coins and pressing a button for a parking ticket. I did it with gloves on, which were then removed and washed when we got home. I think the government should insist on the close-down of all such push-button machines - particularly in cities.

[gryffron]

Most petrol stations provide disposable plastic gloves. They're almost always available near the biggest lorry diesel pump. Sometimes everywhere. Though I doubt the supply is sufficient for every visiting car.

Soapy water DOES kill the virus. It destroys the outer oily layer which protects it when outside a host.

Gryff

[XFool]

Genuine question; there have been references to buckets and dishes of soapy water.

My understanding is that washing with soap and water removes the virus from your hands and washes it down the drain, and doesn't actually kill the virus. So these solutions just dilute the virus..and a soapy cloth will be a carrier itself.

Does soap and water kill the virus?

My first response would be: "No. Because viruses are not 'alive' to begin with."

My second is: "Yes, because soap can disrupt and chemically destroy viruses."

Why Soap Works

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/health/soap-coronavirus-handwashing-germs.html

At the molecular level, soap breaks things apart. At the level of society, it helps hold everything together.

I have no idea if it is scientifically valid(?) but I tend to think of viruses as natural, biological nanobots.

[elkay]

My first response would be: "No. Because viruses are not 'alive' to begin with."

My second is: "Yes, because soap can disrupt and chemically destroy viruses."

Why Soap Works

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/health/soap-coronavirus-handwashing-germs.html

At the molecular level, soap breaks things apart. At the level of society, it helps hold everything together.

I have no idea if it is scientifically valid(?) but I tend to think of viruses as natural, biological nanobots.

Thanks, that is a useful article. And I loved the quote...

, “Wash your hands like you’ve been chopping jalapeños and you need to change your contacts.”

However I am sceptical that the practice of changing buckets of water and cleaning cloths would be applied often enough. I know in my workplace, before I started working at home, there was increased cleaning cycles - but I think the same cloth and bucket and soapy water was probably used to clean all the door handles on all 6 floors of the building. At least I didn't see much lather.

[panamagold]

Protective measures my wife and I went to last week whils't in shops prior to the French govt. imposing the closure ban.

Face Visor
In conjunction with
Respiratory mask
along with disposable gloves.

As we are already in possesion of these articles for use whils't operating garden machinery it seemed, to us, irresponsible not to adapt them to the cicumstances we now find ourselves subjected to.

[Stompa]

Maybe the only answer is literally to stay at home and order online, though I understand you may have a three week wait and only partial delivery.

Fortunately, I did manage to grab one slot a week ago for delivery on Mar 30. But, as you suggest, it looks like it will end up being a very partial delivery. I filled my basket with ~£90 worth of goods, most of which has since disappeared such that it's now down to less than £15 worth. I've refilled it, but fully expect numerous items to disappear again. I guess all I can do is refill again on the evening before the delivery day and keep everything crossed!

I've also been trying to book a subsequent delivery, but it seems impossible at the moment. Checking several times a day across 7 different supermarkets there are simply never any delivery slots available. I've even tried checking at midnight to see if another days worth of slots became available then. They did, but all were fully booked.

[bungeejumper]

Mildly off-topic, but this weekend's FT review has a cracking piece by Robert Shrimsley, who is the chief political editor but who also has a fine line in humour. He's talking about the alternative stresses of being locked into a house for months on end with your supposedly nearest and dearest.

King Henry VIII, he says, lost no time in departing London when the plague hit. Headed out to Hampton Court and hunkered down for the duration. Had all the doors widened, so as to accommodate the effect of fridge raiding on his enlarged frame. Had six wives, but killed two of them.

https://www.ft.com/content/6c954062-68a ... 70cff6e4d3 If it's paywalled, try googling for "The full horror of the coronavirus crisis hit home on Saturday when Match of the Day was replaced with Mrs Brown’s Boys."

BJ

[GoSeigen]

Maybe I'm a bit thick but how so? Our local station has a bucket of soapy water right there to wash hands, how hard is it to use that to wipe the handle? If there's no soap/water then instruct the management to provide them or you'll buy your petrol somewhere safer. It's the kind of quick and selfless action which helps make the world a better place, like taking your litter home with you...

GS
Who yesterday spent an hour clearing up litter strewn around outside our gate.

Would this be a typical example of the overreaction to this 'flu strain' you are referring to here Here?

Washing hands is an over-reaction? Okaay....


GS

[Arborbridge]

How about gloves + wiping ones steering wheel with a wipe. If all the wipes are gone, a kitchen towel liberally does with white vinegar might do it. I've found vinegar doesn't harm my phone screen so that gets a wipe if I've been out.

Vinegar is not on the EPA approved list of coronavirus disinfectants and it is not effective against viruses. What makes you think it's a suitable product?



GS

I only said "how about" - I've no idea whether it would work, so I was hoping for a response such as yours to inform me! I will check the list you mention, which I had never heard of previously, so thank you.

I guess what might have put it in mind was the black death and the village of Eyam. They used to exchange money with outsiders by putting into a bath of vinegar. Mind you, I think most of them died, so perhaps not a good idea after all.
I just wondered whether it would be better than nothing - or as good as anti-bacterial spray (not anti-viral, I notice), which is all we have at the moment.

Arb.

[ReformedCharacter]

I guess what might have put it in mind was the black death and the village of Eyam. They used to exchange money with outsiders by putting into a bath of vinegar. Mind you, I think most of them died, so perhaps not a good idea after all.
I just wondered whether it would be better than nothing - or as good as anti-bacterial spray (not anti-viral, I notice), which is all we have at the moment.

Arb.

I haven't seen it on a list but I suspect methylated spirits, cheap and still available, would work as an anti-bacterial and anti-viral. Applied topically of course

RC

[UncleEbenezer]

I haven't seen it on a list but I suspect methylated spirits, cheap and still available, would work as an anti-bacterial and anti-viral. Applied topically of course

RC

They were talking about petrol. Cheap, available, and a nastier toxic hydrocarbon than mere meths.

Probably not on any list 'cos it's too lethal to more than just viruses.

[sg31]

Genuine question; there have been references to buckets and dishes of soapy water.

My understanding is that washing with soap and water removes the virus from your hands and washes it down the drain, and doesn't actually kill the virus. So these solutions just dilute the virus..and a soapy cloth will be a carrier itself.

Does soap and water kill the virus?

I understand the virus has an oily outer coating which detergents and soap destroy thereby killing the virus. I think this was posted by DrFfybes earlier in the thread.

[XFool]

I haven't seen it on a list but I suspect methylated spirits, cheap and still available, would work as an anti-bacterial and anti-viral. Applied topically of course

Needs must...

[richfool]

What I am not sure about is whether one should be washing (or sanitising) home deliveries, boxes, bags, bottles packets, etc., and for that matter what about the various items one has bought from the supermarket?

I assume envelopes delivered by the postman are reasonably safe?

[Clariman]

What I am not sure about is whether one should be washing (or sanitising) home deliveries, boxes, bags, bottles packets, etc., and for that matter what about the various items one has bought from the supermarket?

I assume envelopes delivered by the postman are reasonably safe?

I'm opening the post, disposing of the envelopes then washing my hands. We are washing down bottles and packets from supermarket before storing.

[jackdaww]

I see no point in isolating if you have not had contact with any sufferer, nor have any symptoms yourself.

Why stay indoors? Why not go for a walk in the country? If you have stuff delivered, who knows if the stuff has been in contact with a sufferer? The post comes through the door. Do you leave it for a few hours before you pick it up?

The problem is not the ill and the vulnerable, it is the worried well.

TJH (86 and theoretically vulnerable)

=========================

replace "sufferer" with "carrier" .

a carrier may have been infected for up to 2 weeks without knowing , showing no symptoms.

the problem is many people dont get this simple fact.

walk in the country is fine .

i open the post , dispose of the wrappings , then wash hands.

=====================

i realise now its even more serious than that .

many younger adults and many under say 50 , who are fit and well , can be infected , show no or very slight symptoms , recover and regain full health.

but during the infection period , maybe 2/3 weeks , they can be infecting others .

so the idea that its OK to mix with asymptomatics is just plain WRONG.

[scotia]

OK - out for a bit of senior isolated fresh air today. We are close to the Campsies, and although it is pleasant countryside, it is definitely second division in popularity compared to other Scottish scenic areas. Even at the weekends we would expect the popular stopping places to be lightly used, and there are lots of others where you would normally get a parking place to yourself, and you would meet at most a few people out on a walk. Not so today. Carparks were over-full - lots of parking around the edges. Steady streams of people walking up hill paths that I have rarely seen anyone on (and I have lived here for almost 50 years). The secluded walk we planned in the Carron valley was abandoned - its car parking area was full - and lots of other cars were parked on the verges of a narrow road. We returned home without getting out of the car.
It was the second hit of the day - we spent most of yesterday in the garden, extensively weeding, cutting, trimming - and filling up our two green wheely bins, since today was collection day. But the bins remained untouched, and looking at the council web site we have discovered that the uplifting of green wheely bins has been suspended, due to the Corona virus.
But lets not be grouchy - over 70s never are! Where are the silver linings? Those previous couch-potatoes who were out sampling walks over our hills will be all the better for it - as long as they survived without suffering a coronary attack on the steeper slopes. And the wildlife is going to enjoy and prosper in our unkempt gardens.

[JohnB]

I can understand the rush for the outdoors. Its bright sun after a long winter, and rather than brood over the rolling news feeds you can get away from it all. I can see why TPTB get twitchy about gatherings in urban parks, but once you leave a rural car park, it really is isolating, unless you've met up with your mates.

I think people aren't relishing the prospect of a prison lifestyle, few now have a garden big enough to be a true area of escape.

[Arborbridge]

What I am not sure about is whether one should be washing (or sanitising) home deliveries, boxes, bags, bottles packets, etc., and for that matter what about the various items one has bought from the supermarket?

I assume envelopes delivered by the postman are reasonably safe?

I'm opening the post, disposing of the envelopes then washing my hands. We are washing down bottles and packets from supermarket before storing.

Our neighbour told me today, that he leaves the post on the mat for a few hours in quarantine.

Arb.