After the virus.....

[XFool]

Assuming we all make it through this, what changes....

A: Do we think will happen?

B: Would we like to see happen?

I'll kick off if I may with a few that spring to mind.

A:
The rapid demise of cash.
The final blow dealt to the high street as online shopping takes over.

Stop right there! You're making me choke.

[tjh290633]

What do I think will happen?

Big changes to the tax and benefits system.
NICs integrated into Income Tax.
Major changes to the scope and rates of VAT, possibly with a Local Sales Tax to replace business rates
Introduction of some charges for the use of NHS facilities, like there are with dentistry.
A rapid conclusion to talks with the EU and the Future Trade Agreement.

What would I like to happen?

All the above.
Further trade agreements concluded.
UK Manufacturing to increase scope and volume.
A sensible resumption of sporting activity, with more free to air major events.
Increased voluntary activity, including in Transport (Community Buses, Patient Transport Schemes, etc)
Removal of University Fees, but more critical selection processes.
Means-related education grants, with a minimum level.
Democratisation of the Upper House, with a mixture of appointed specialists and elected members.

Currently I am "attending" the AGM of our local Conservative Association, using ZOOM. It is working well, and could well be the model for many other meetings, thus avoiding the need to travel to the venue. I would like to see this become the usual way to hold meetings in the future. It is nice to attend in person, but seldom vital. We are able to vote, ask questions, and we have the documents available online. I have another ZOOM meeting the week after next. If it goes as well, I can see it catching on rapidly.

TJH

[XFool]

I think (hope) that people will step back and think about the whole sorry mess

A single food hygiene/public health failure in a Chinese city that most had never heard of has caused countless deaths and has destroyed economies and lives around the globe,with the after effects probably lasting years.

Root cause - Globalisation.

So The Black Death couldn't possibly have happened?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death#Causes

"Today, the dominant explanation for the Black Death is the plague theory, which attributes the outbreak to Yersinia pestis, also responsible for an epidemic that began in southern China in 1865, eventually spreading to India."

Not to mention the 1918 Influenza pandemic.

Putting it another way, both humans and infectious diseases have likely been 'Global' for a mighty long time.

[AleisterCrowley]

Nursing bursaries...although I think they have been partially reintroduced

[stewamax]

Since Spring has sprung - with a few days of nice weather when more people appear to be out in the open spaces, cycling or just walking near home with kids, I forecast:
- a renewed urge to get fitter and enjoy the great outdoors
- better health, as least for non-smokers (might be the reverse for smokers who smoke at home as a palliative for not being able to go the the pub)
- money redirected from roads and rail to FTTP broadband - a win-win for the environment and home-worker
- painful taxation
- Sirs Jim Radcliffe and James Dyson given life peerages for developing and donating some or all of the ventilators they produce at very short notice

[AleisterCrowley]

I think (hope) that people will step back and think about the whole sorry mess

A single food hygiene/public health failure in a Chinese city that most had never heard of has caused countless deaths and has destroyed economies and lives around the globe,with the after effects probably lasting years.

Root cause - Globalisation.

So The Black Death couldn't possibly have happened?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death#Causes

"Today, the dominant explanation for the Black Death is the plague theory, which attributes the outbreak to Yersinia pestis, also responsible for an epidemic that began in southern China in 1865, eventually spreading to India."

Not to mention the 1918 Influenza pandemic.

Putting it another way, both humans and infectious diseases have likely been 'Global' for a mighty long time.

But much slower, and if we had Black death /Spanish Flu transmission rate with current medical capabilities we could easily deal with them. The 1919 flu was exacerbated by WW1 with malnourished, traumatised , and mobile populations.
The current situation wouldn't have happened 50 years ago , it would have fizzled out in China and surrounding areas

[didds]

Mass inoculation with a vaccine is 2 years+ away, if we haven't eased the lockdown by then we'll all have killed each other.

Scott.

But .... but.... but... the Daily wail / Some "Doctor" /David Icke has said if we have the innoculation we'll get Asperger's syndrome ...

didds

[AleisterCrowley]

The virus was clearly created in a Chinese biowarfare lab and released to destroy the west. The deaths in China were planned to enhance deniability, and they let the currents of globalisation do the rest. Next stage is Chinese capital buys up depressed US assets and the takeover is almost complete.





if you believe US prepper YouTube channels

[XFool]

But much slower, and if we had Black death /Spanish Flu transmission rate with current medical capabilities we could easily deal with them.

Black Death, certainly, as we have antibiotics.

The 1919 flu was exacerbated by WW1 with malnourished, traumatised , and mobile populations.

Possibly so. But then, in the second wave of that flu pandemic, it was the young and healthy who suffered very badly, as a result of overreaction of their immune system - plus possible poisoning from over treatment with the newly introduced aspirin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#Patterns_of_fatality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#Aspirin_poisoning

The current situation wouldn't have happened 50 years ago , it would have fizzled out in China and surrounding areas

Are you completely certain of that?

Then again:

The Coronavirus Is Demonstrating the Value of Globalization

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/dont-abandon-globalizationmake-it-better/608872/

We are experiencing a painful introduction to anti-globalism and its consequences.

[XFool]

The virus was clearly created in a Chinese biowarfare lab and released to destroy the west. The deaths in China were planned to enhance deniability, and they let the currents of globalisation do the rest. Next stage is Chinese capital buys up depressed US assets and the takeover is almost complete.

You've been on ADVFN again. Come on, admit it!

Alternative version: "It's all a hoax, we are being conned!"

[AleisterCrowley]

I've seen 'em all having been glued to survivalist/prepper channels all week

[kempiejon]

This is after the virus.

[AleisterCrowley]

But much slower, and if we had Black death /Spanish Flu transmission rate with current medical capabilities we could easily deal with them.

Black Death, certainly, as we have antibiotics.

The 1919 flu was exacerbated by WW1 with malnourished, traumatised , and mobile populations.

Possibly so. But then, in the second wave of that flu pandemic, it was the young and healthy who suffered very badly, as a result of overreaction of their immune system - plus possible poisoning from over treatment with the newly introduced aspirin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#Patterns_of_fatality
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#Aspirin_poisoning

The current situation wouldn't have happened 50 years ago , it would have fizzled out in China and surrounding areas

Are you completely certain of that?

Then again:

The Coronavirus Is Demonstrating the Value of Globalization

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/dont-abandon-globalizationmake-it-better/608872/

We are experiencing a painful introduction to anti-globalism and its consequences.

I'm not against the global movement of ideas or goods, it's virus vectors (humans) I worry about. I think we'd be a lot better off if we pulled up the drawbridge a bit and got a bit more self-sufficient. And reduced our population so we didn't have to import 50% of our food (lessons not learnt in WW2)

[JohnB]

The rise of WFH, the collapse of high street shops as everyone decides they like Amazon to deliver

Lots of churn in small business names, but the same kind of services

Government spending plans on infrastructure abandoned as they will be skint, with the exception of LOTS more money for the NHS

International travel outside your power bloc harder as every visitor will be viewed with suspicion. So Ireland for hols then.

Tories blunder on with EU deal when all negotiators are sick, and get a lousy one

Wealth taxes to bail our the national debt. Pensioners who got no immediate bail-out and watched their SIPPs collapse will be hit with higher tax.

Emergency powers don't get repealed, as the government likes the new level of surveillance.

[AleisterCrowley]

Yeh, emergency powers worry me. They have a habit of outlasting the 'emergency'..

[AleisterCrowley]

Well I'm glad I'm in this half of my life than the other.

i'm finding it quite interesting in a detached sort of way (although obviously I don't want anyone to expire prematurely)
The veneer of civilisation..
[edit , I'm 54 just for context]

[nimnarb]

What do I think will happen?

Big changes to the tax and benefits system.
NICs integrated into Income Tax.
Major changes to the scope and rates of VAT, possibly with a Local Sales Tax to replace business rates
Introduction of some charges for the use of NHS facilities, like there are with dentistry.
A rapid conclusion to talks with the EU and the Future Trade Agreement.

What would I like to happen?

All the above.
Further trade agreements concluded.
UK Manufacturing to increase scope and volume.
A sensible resumption of sporting activity, with more free to air major events.
Increased voluntary activity, including in Transport (Community Buses, Patient Transport Schemes, etc)
Removal of University Fees, but more critical selection processes.
Means-related education grants, with a minimum level.
Democratisation of the Upper House, with a mixture of appointed specialists and elected members.

Currently I am "attending" the AGM of our local Conservative Association, using ZOOM. It is working well, and could well be the model for many other meetings, thus avoiding the need to travel to the venue. I would like to see this become the usual way to hold meetings in the future. It is nice to attend in person, but seldom vital. We are able to vote, ask questions, and we have the documents available online. I have another ZOOM meeting the week after next. If it goes as well, I can see it catching on rapidly.

TJH

Zoom. Anyone seen the Stock price over the last few months? US listed. Even UK Parliament using it. Along with Teledoc.

[XFool]

i'm finding it quite interesting in a detached sort of way (although obviously I don't want anyone to expire prematurely)
The veneer of civilisation..

I'm liking how it feels like going back ~25 years. Much less traffic, little environmental background noise, I can hear the birds singing. I even saw a beautiful, clear, sharp crescent moon in a blue sky early yesterday evening and a very bright star (Venus?) - now that's a 'first'!

[Dod101]

The virus was clearly created in a Chinese biowarfare lab and released to destroy the west. The deaths in China were planned to enhance deniability, and they let the currents of globalisation do the rest. Next stage is Chinese capital buys up depressed US assets and the takeover is almost complete.





if you believe US prepper YouTube channels

And I thought it was the Russians who were the germ experts. They have been strangely quiet?

Dod

[Dod101]

[Yes, and the seemingly insatiable need for people to travel abroad on holidays. My in laws, for example, seem to want to visit every corner of the earth while they can and that seems very typical of their generation. They're both keen environmentalists but cannot see (or refuse to accept) the damage that tourism does. The filth and mess that people create just to say they've 'climbed Everest' is but one example. It seems likely that Coronavirus entered the UK via a ski-resort in Austria. It's no surprise.

I am probably of the generation of the in laws referred to and I share their desire to travel and in fact have been practising it, although not I guess with the assiduousness of said in laws by the sound of it.

I can well see the damage 'over tourism' can cause and I think we may see the removal of el cheapo airlines, I certainly hope so anyway. The pressure will surely be there because of climate change and bankruptcies of the bargain basement ones. OTOH travel broadens the mind and I would not discourage people from travelling.

I would ban cruise ships as well but I do not see that happening.

Dod