NHS tracing app

[Clitheroekid]

I'm highly sceptical that the app will provide any real assistance, mainly because I think people are - rightly or wrongly - increasingly thinking that the CV threat has, at least for most younger people, been massively exaggerated.

So the last thing they will be wanting is an app that instructs them to head back into self-isolation for 14 days, particularly when it may well be a false alarm from someone who has been over-cautious in thinking they have CV symptoms or has deliberately entered false information.

I'd personally also be very wary of the security issues, though I'm the first to confess that I have zero understanding of the technical aspects, so I can't really assess these risks.

However, I'm very much aware that my sceptical view of the whole scenario is an unpopular minority one, so I'd be interested to know what fellow Fools are intending.

(Incidentally, I apologise to the Mods for starting a new thread, but so far as I could work out there's no way of inserting a poll in the middle of the existing thread. If there is, then please feel free to move it to the main thread).

[Mike4]

I voted "No, mainly because I don't think it'll work", but I was looking for a more specific option saying "No because I believe the majority of warnings will be pranks and have no credibility". Or something along those lines.

[Alaric]

I'm highly sceptical that the app will provide any real assistance, mainly because I think people are - rightly or wrongly - increasingly thinking that the CV threat has, at least for most younger people, been massively exaggerated. .

In its way, the whole social distancing thing is theatre. If you knew for certain that other people were not going to infect you, you don't need distancing or lockdown measures to prevent association. The trouble is that from around early to mid March you didn't know that you weren't associating with those who were infectious and might kill you. The excess deaths in April are evidence of this.

Excess deaths are declining, but is there enough confidence that for example a Bridge tournament could be held without a danger of wiping out many of the Bridge club? The lack of any coherent tracing of how people were getting infected isn't helpful, so there is no sifting of what's potentially dangerous and what isn't. Looking at it another way, if you encounter someone with the infection, what behaviours put you at risk and what protect you?

[JohnB]

Drugs are trialled properly, against agreed scientific standards. This app is being rushed out, with minimal testing, and no assessment of its social consequences or privacy issues.

I will only install it if Ross Anderson (https://www.lightbluetouchpaper.org/202 ... eal-world/) and the Nuffield Bioetthics Council (https://www.nuffieldbioethics.org/blog/ ... racing-app) think it a good idea, and even then think it will be of mininial use with my lifestyle.

[PinkDalek]

Other (Please explain)

What is an App?

[tjh290633]

My phone runs on Android 7, so is not compatible. Quite why they limited compatibility to Android 8 and higher seems to me to be a fundamental mistake. I certainly am not replacing my phone to suit them, and I cannot be alone.

TJH

[servodude]

My phone runs on Android 7, so is not compatible. Quite why they limited compatibility to Android 8 and higher seems to me to be a fundamental mistake. I certainly am not replacing my phone to suit them, and I cannot be alone.
TJH

That does seem to be surprisingly restrictive.

I am pretty sure that the Android API was patched for systems back to Android 6; and I know, for my sins, that BLE support has been in there since at least 4.3

Perhaps its due to turning their back on the model recommended by Google?

- sd

[scotia]

Other (Please explain)

What is an App?

An app is a program - which normally runs on a computer, tablet or smartphone. The NHS app under discussion runs on recent versions of Android and Apple Smartphones. I assume the app under consideration is the one which is currently being tested on the Isle of Wight - and which is still under development. I don't know the current stage this app has reached. Initially it was reported that the app would accept a person's word that they have been infected, and will warn contacts to isolate - but will not update this warning if a test proves that the person initiating the warning proves to be negative. If this is correct, then, in my opinion, it has little or no value. I would not download it.
If the NHS issues an app which only sends out warnings to contacts when the infection source has tested positive , then I would find the app useful.

[PinkDalek]

Other (Please explain)

What is an App?

An app is a program - which normally runs on a computer, tablet or smartphone. ...

I was being facetious and giving a potential answer to the Widdy option. This still being A virtual pub for off topic, light hearted pub related banter and discussion.

Not saying there's anything much wrong with the poll itself though.

[Mike4]

Other (Please explain)

What is an App?

An app is a program - which normally runs on a computer, tablet or smartphone. The NHS app under discussion runs on recent versions of Android and Apple Smartphones. I assume the app under consideration is the one which is currently being tested on the Isle of Wight - and which is still under development. I don't know the current stage this app has reached. Initially it was reported that the app would accept a person's word that they have been infected, and will warn contacts to isolate - but will not update this warning if a test proves that the person initiating the warning proves to be negative. If this is correct, then, in my opinion, it has little or no value. I would not download it.
If the NHS issues an app which only sends out warnings to contacts when the infection source has tested positive , then I would find the app useful.

Hopefully the IoW trial will flag up the weakness you describe, although it beggars belief that the analysts writing the spec failed to require verification of claims of infection before they are propagated.

The other fatal weakness is that users receiving a notification are under no obligation to isolate. Why would they when it costs them money and freedom, people being fundamentally selfish? People will dream up justifications for ignoring the whole thing and delete the app rather than lock down for a fortnight when it tells them to, I predict.

Verdict? Worse than useless, unless my beliefs are wrong and these issues have somehow been addressed.

[Lootman]

Verdict? Worse than useless

Luckily that is one of the poll options:

"No, because I think it's s stupid idea, doomed to fail".

That got my vote.

[scotia]

What is an App?

An app is a program - which normally runs on a computer, tablet or smartphone. ...

I was being facetious and giving a potential answer to the Widdy option. This still being A virtual pub for off topic, light hearted pub related banter and discussion.

There you are - destroying the faith of a trusting soul. I'm sure you're ashamed

[Mike4]

Verdict? Worse than useless

Luckily that is one of the poll options:

"No, because I think it's s stupid idea, doomed to fail".

That got my vote.

I think the idea is great, the implementation is shyte.

Totally different from a 'stupid idea'.

[Lootman]

Verdict? Worse than useless

Luckily that is one of the poll options:

"No, because I think it's s stupid idea, doomed to fail".

That got my vote.

I think the idea is great, the implementation is shyte. Totally different from a 'stupid idea'.

Both can be true. For instance, what about people who do not have a smart phone? A trivial number under age 40 perhaps. But over 60?

[servodude]

The other fatal weakness is that users receiving a notification are under no obligation to isolate. Why would they when it costs them money and freedom, people being fundamentally selfish? People will dream up justifications for ignoring the whole thing and delete the app rather than lock down for a fortnight when it tells them to, I predict.

some will ignore it but not everyone, and every little bit collectively helps

If you're not going to enforce mandatory isolation you can flip the perception
it could be really simple to market it as being in your best interests to "do the right thing"
- run adds with someone distraught at the death of an elderly relative wishing that they hadn't ignored the notification
- "don't kill your loved ones through arrogance" "did YOU pass it on?" kind of stuff

stuff can be done
- but its much harder to do if your unelected sidekick is scuppering your credibility

- sd

[Itsallaguess]

Moderator Message:
Political comments removed - please keep to the Polite Discussions Board for any political discussions - Itsallaguess

[jackdaww]

What is an App?

An app is a program - which normally runs on a computer, tablet or smartphone. ...

I was being facetious and giving a potential answer to the Widdy option. This still being A virtual pub for off topic, light hearted pub related banter and discussion.

Not saying there's anything much wrong with the poll itself though.

====================================

but there are people who DONT know what an app is - so the question was worth an answer .

i have always assumed app is short for application - maybe be it isnt .

[jfgw]

i have always assumed app is short for application - maybe be it isnt .

And there was me thinking it meant, "appalling software" (or possibly "appalling security")

Julian F. G. W.

[bungeejumper]

So the NHSX app has involved two sections of the team that gave us Cambridge Analytica? (Palantir and Faculty.) And the chief exec is still being coy about which organisations will be given access to the app's data? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHS_COVID-19) You don't need to be political to see why not everybody will feel comfortable about that.

I voted Undecided, because there are still too many key points about the technology that haven't been explained. Although I can't see that it would make much difference to me either way at present, because one of my mobiles lives on my desk and the other is in my car's glove compartment . Still, it'll be sure to give me an alert when somebody with a subsequently-reported infection parks his car next to mine.

BJ

[brightncheerful]

I voted no, mainly for security reasons.

Also am I right thinking that the app only works if the phone is switched on? Mostly, I have mine switched off and only on when I want to make a call or text or use an app. The only time it's on regardless is when I'm in the supermarket for my shopping list and in case Mrs Bnc wants to contact me.