NHS tracing app

[didds]

b) Only one patient in the waiting room at any time. Don't come in the front door until the receptionist calls your mobile phone. Where you wait outside is your problem

All sensible ideas.

But.

What happens when the patient doesnt own a mobile phone and lives 5 miles away?

didds

[didds]

A couple of people have mooted the idea that the app could be used as a way to "get" aty someone... ie falsely report that the perpetrator has symptoms and now anybody the app has appropriate contacts for gets told they shoudl self isolate etc.

And it struck me that on the reverse of it one could just say to boss/wife/whoever that one has received a notificatiojn from the app to self isolate - just to prevent one having to go back to work in the office and not WFH, or do the shopping or whatever

didds

[jfgw]

If I was leaving my phone in a locker most of the day, it would be turned off. And that is before I I think about installing the NHS app.

Indeed. But if there are 500 phones in that locker Ill wager not all ofb them are turned off :-0

must be hellish for anybody in te proximity of that locker with 499 phones all beeping and ringing all day!

didds

It depends upon what the locker is made of. 'Phones usually get a very poor signal inside a metal box . Bluetooth will still work between 'phones in the same box, however.

Julian F. G. W.

[UncleEbenezer]

must be hellish for anybody in the proximity of that locker with 499 phones all beeping and ringing all day!

didds

Speaks someone who's never had a $work phone extension that was formerly a fax number.

[UncleEbenezer]

A couple of people have mooted the idea that the app could be used as a way to "get" aty someone... ie report that the perpetrator has symptoms and now anybody the app has appropriate contacts for gets told they shoudl self isolate etc.

And it struck me that on the reverse of it one could just say to boss/wife/whoever that ythey have received a notificatiojn from the app to self isolate - just to prevent them having to go back to work in the office and not WFH, or do the shopping or whatever

didds

More to the point, "track and trace" will be another fertile hunting-ground for criminals. Phone up innocent-victim, claim to be from government tracing covid contacts, get more information than ever before to help with targeted phishing and identity theft on both $victim and contacts.

[didds]

must be hellish for anybody in the proximity of that locker with 499 phones all beeping and ringing all day!

didds

Speaks someone who's never had a $work phone extension that was formerly a fax number.

oh yes I have!!

LOL

didds

[dealtn]

What do you lot think?

Well I think using unnecessary, and rude language such as "faceless suit" detracts from the merits of your argument.

[JohnB]

What database of contacts are the government going to use? The telephone directories, ignoring ex-directory rules? Landlines are tied to bill-payers, not other members of the household, and I don't know the status for mobile networks. Clearly the government has many databases with contact details in, but raiding them to form a national id database is a big privacy issue.

"I'm positive, and popped into the barbers last week. I like that you don't need appointments there. I think 3 people were having haircuts, that tosser Eric, one was black, one rather rat-faced. I don't know if I had my phone with me, its rather old and the battery is knackered"

[servodude]

What do you lot think?

Well I think using unnecessary, and rude language such as "faceless suit" detracts from the merits of your argument.

Hancock's hardly the most memorable of communicators, let's be honest

-sd

[servodude]

What database of contacts are the government going to use? The telephone directories, ignoring ex-directory rules? Landlines are tied to bill-payers, not other members of the household, and I don't know the status for mobile networks. Clearly the government has many databases with contact details in, but raiding them to form a national id database is a big privacy issue.

"I'm positive, and popped into the barbers last week. I like that you don't need appointments there. I think 3 people were having haircuts, that tosser Eric, one was black, one rather rat-faced. I don't know if I had my phone with me, its rather old and the battery is knackered"

For manual tracing that's EXACTLY how it works! It's not very efficient.
If you've got the app it's annonamously linked to your phone, you are simply a number; if the move to the recommended database method they don't even know you've been notified (your phone pulled the other anonymous numbers)

-sd

[dealtn]

What do you lot think?

Well I think using unnecessary, and rude language such as "faceless suit" detracts from the merits of your argument.

Hancock's hardly the most memorable of communicators, let's be honest

-sd

That maybe the case, but why detract from the positivity of the points you are trying to convey, by resorting to unnecessary language (even in a pub)?

[JohnB]

I'm starting to think this will all fall apart due to distrust of the government. I think I'd have been happier to go along with direction from previous governments, whether Labour or Tory, but after the bitterness of Brexit, the social media fueled trend for politicians to appear more shallow and shifty, distorting the truth to boost their own image has made it worse. I'd put my faith in experts, but with the Brexiteers dismissing economic experts, I'm no longer convinced that public heath expertise is getting through the political filter.

Social distancing was common sense, for but all the nuances of contact tracing and restarting the economy, I really don't trust Johnson implementing the ideas of Cummings, and I don't think he has my best interests at heart.

[Wuffle]

I want it back to normal.
My age and health precludes this being a big deal for me.
What is in it for me to tell you I am ill?

What are the counter arguments?

W.

[Mike4]

What do you lot think?

Well I think using unnecessary, and rude language such as "faceless suit" detracts from the merits of your argument.

Well when I wrote the post, I had had a dram or two (this being the pub) and I could not remember who the person was, so faceless suit was actually how I perceived him at the time so that is what I put.

You presumably missed my subsequent post where having figured out who it was, I switched to referring to him as "that nice Mr Hancock".

[swill453]

I want it back to normal.
My age and health precludes this being a big deal for me.
What is in it for me to tell you I am ill?

Your grandparents/parents/older neighbours are less likely to die years before their time?

If you don't care about any more vulnerable person then maybe you've got a point. Some might say it's worth doing for the greater community though.

Scott.

[sunnyjoe]

Coincidentally I just got an email from my dentist outlining the precautions they will be taking when they fully reopen:

1) All patients to wear masks except in the chair
2) Temperature screening upon arrival. You must leave if over 38 degrees C
3) Patients to sit 1.5 metres apart in the waiting room. Do not arrive early.
4) Scrubdown of chairs and all surfaces between patients
5) Use hand sanitiser upon arrival
6) No magazines in the waiting room
7) Pre-rinse with anti bacterial mouthwash

My wife is a dentist and recently had a meeting with her colleagues to discuss what precautions would be needed to enable them to restart seeing patients. They look a lot like your list except

a) They will initially open to see emergencies only
b) No aerosol producing procedures i.e. no drill, no extractions. Very limited treatment
b) Only one patient in the waiting room at any time. Don't come in the front door until the receptionist calls your mobile phone. Where you wait outside is your problem
c) Plastic screen between receptionist area and waiting area
d) Precautions for vulnerable staff still to be determined
e) PPE prices are now 8x pre Covid-19

If the staff have full PPE then why can they only do emergencies?

My dentist did not list any exceptions but maybe they make that decision on a case-by-case basis.

Also maybe if a dentist takes on NHS work then they are bound by NHS rules, whereas a 100% private dentist has more discretion?

They plan to open for emergencies only so they can trial their new procedures.

The new procedures and PPE will mean that they can see far fewer patients at much greater cost. Expect private dentistry costs to increase and NHS dentists to become even rarer.

[sunnyjoe]

b) Only one patient in the waiting room at any time. Don't come in the front door until the receptionist calls your mobile phone. Where you wait outside is your problem

What happens when the patient doesnt own a mobile phone and lives 5 miles away?

I guess that at their appointed time they will have to announce themselves at the door and wait outside to be called in.

It's all academic at the moment because all dentists have been instructed to close by the Chief Dental Officer and the CQC

[Mike4]

I want it back to normal.
My age and health precludes this being a big deal for me.
What is in it for me to tell you I am ill?

What are the counter arguments?

W.

Well here is a real life example of how that nice Mr Hancock telling people "it is your civic duty" doesn't work.

Social pressure is the way forward I think. Just as drink-driving used to be acceptable but just isn't these days, the same will apply to refusing to tell the authorities or your doctor when you have "flu'-like symptoms". People will start saying stuff to you like "It's just selfish and unsociable - and if you don't do it, I'll do it for you".

Is that any good as something that's "in it for you"...?

[zico]

Well here is a real life example of how that nice Mr Hancock telling people "it is your civic duty" doesn't work.

Social pressure is the way forward I think. Just as drink-driving used to be acceptable but just isn't these days, the same will apply to refusing to tell the authorities or your doctor when you have "flu'-like symptoms". People will start saying stuff to you like "It's just selfish and unsociable - and if you don't do it, I'll do it for you".

Is that any good as something that's "in it for you"...?

People who don't think the virus is a problem are least likely to take precautions, or take notice of warnings, so are the most likely to be spreading it. In the same way, people in shops who ignore social distancing are the biggest dangers.

[swill453]

If a shop assistant takes cash from a customer (it hasn't been banned yet) then they have come in "close contact" with each other under the definition used by Matt Hancock (within 1m at any time). I'm sure that the assistant could be identified from the customer's receipt in a large supermarket.

Are they going to be asked, in their droves, to self-isolate for 14 days if any of their customers test positive?

Scott.