Non essential shops to re-open…

[JohnB]

The 'you' was the company. The consumer benefits from the new entrant being cheaper, and possibly better run, because the barrier to entry in the market has been lowered by the crisis.

I can see some pub chains hoping to snap up weakling pubs/breweries too. Consumers often don't follow the owenership of beer brands provided the pump clip doesn't change . I completely missed that Wychwood is part of Marstons until I saw a news report saying it was merging with Carlsberg.

[stockton]

So it is acceptable that consumers are over-charged for the items they need to buy to cover the additional costs that small shopkeepers have?
I choose Amazon (and not only are their prices cheaper, but their customer service puts many small shops to shame).

This comment involves an allsorts of assumptions which simply do not relate to reality.

Where I am in Spain, if I were looking for the lowest possible price I would normally go to a small but busy retailer who is deliberately competeing on price with the large supermarkets. This is obviously only possible if the small retailer has access to much the same discounts as the large supermarket chains.
And as far as I can see, the internet is used for items which cannot be found elsewhere, or by people who are prepared to pay extra for the convenience of not having to leave the house.
In fact the internet has revolutionised the second-hand markets but so far had relatively little effect on the primary retail market.

[AF62]

So it is acceptable that consumers are over-charged for the items they need to buy to cover the additional costs that small shopkeepers have?
I choose Amazon (and not only are their prices cheaper, but their customer service puts many small shops to shame).

This comment involves an allsorts of assumptions which simply do not relate to reality.

Where I am in Spain, if I were looking for the lowest possible price I would normally go to a small but busy retailer who is deliberately competeing on price with the large supermarkets. This is obviously only possible if the small retailer has access to much the same discounts as the large supermarket chains.
And as far as I can see, the internet is used for items which cannot be found elsewhere, or by people who are prepared to pay extra for the convenience of not having to leave the house.
In fact the internet has revolutionised the second-hand markets but so far had relatively little effect on the primary retail market.

I would suggest your experience is relevant to Spain and not to the UK.

Small retailers are the last place you would expect to get the best prices; online, large retailers, then small retailers a long way behind.

As for using the internet to buy items that cannot be found elsewhere - nope. You can order anything and everything from the internet, and lots of people do as it delivers a far better experience for them.

[stockton]

The point I am making is that the level of quantity discount which is regarded as normal in a country appears to be a matter of culture rather than anything else, and that this has a substantial effect on the structure of retail markets in different countries. If large discounts are the norm there will be relatively few retail outlets, whereas if such discounts are small there will be a much greater variety of retail outlets.
The figures which you quote, and which I assume are regarded as the norm, suggest that small shops in the UK would have disappeared quite independently of rates and rents, simply because it is almost impossible to compete with a competitor whose cost of supplies is half your own.

.

(My embolden)

Not every shop competes on price. And not every customer buys on price alone. If for example the going rate price for an item in a small shop is £2.99 -upon which it would be reasonable to think an element of profit --why would a competitor want sell at half that price when the profit would be the element of profit on £2.99 plus 50%?

But they might of course sell at £2.79 and put the more expensive shop out of business, or even £1.99 and raise the price when the other shop disappears.

[stockton]

All that is great in theory but can you actually point to a store which does charge different prices in store and online?

Since you ask, yes.
Media Markt, a very large European electric and electronic retailer. You can walk round like any other retailer, or you can go to a till and announce that you have come to buy from the online catalogue, whereupon the assistant will pull out a copy of the catalogue from the desk and place the online order for you.
The items in the online catalogue may well be priced differently from those in store.

I am not sure what this proves, but I would be very interested to know how the local French supermarket chain can offer me 10% off petrol when petrol retailing is supposedly very low margin.

[AF62]

All that is great in theory but can you actually point to a store which does charge different prices in store and online?

Since you ask, yes.
Media Markt, a very large European electric and electronic retailer. You can walk round like any other retailer, or you can go to a till and announce that you have come to buy from the online catalogue, whereupon the assistant will pull out a copy of the catalogue from the desk and place the online order for you.
The items in the online catalogue may well be priced differently from those in store.

Sounds like the nonsense Currys / Dixons tried in the UK 10 years ago. All that happened was people went in store and chose the item, staff couldn't price match the online offer so the customer would pull out their phone and do a 'click and collect' purchase. Staff member then has to carry the item to the checkout to hand over to the customer.

Currys / Dixons realised it was stupid and abandoned the differential pricing, so it just seems French retailers are 10 years behind the UK.

[stockton]

I would suggest your experience is relevant to Spain and not to the UK.
Small retailers are the last place you would expect to get the best prices; online, large retailers, then small retailers a long way behind.

Which would suggest that you (AF62) agree with me that the UK market has peculiar characteristics which ensure that small retailers do not do well.

[AF62]

I would suggest your experience is relevant to Spain and not to the UK.
Small retailers are the last place you would expect to get the best prices; online, large retailers, then small retailers a long way behind.

Which would suggest that you (AF62) agree with me that the UK market has peculiar characteristics which ensure that small retailers do not do well.

Or it could be that small retailers in Spain do well because of peculiar characteristics there!

I am afraid I do not have a vast amount of experience in both shopping in small stores in Spain and buying online in Spain (although I have occasionally ordered items from amazon.es for delivery to the UK because it can be cheaper than amzon.co.uk).

I am aware that some European countries are more protectionist than the UK and place legal barriers to retain the perceived benefit of local business against large multi-nationals. Personally I consider if you need to force people to use small shops, then you are admitting they are a bit rubbish and have already lost the argument.

[UncleEbenezer]

OK, how many non-essential shops can you stand on the head of a pin?

[AF62]

OK, how many non-essential shops can you stand on the head of a pin?

Surely there are no non-essential shops otherwise they wouldn't exist...

[stockton]

I am aware that some European countries are more protectionist than the UK and place legal barriers to retain the perceived benefit of local business against large multi-nationals. Personally I consider if you need to force people to use small shops, then you are admitting they are a bit rubbish and have already lost the argument.

But there is no forcing of people to use small shops. It is simply that what you appear to believe is natural progress is not natural at all, but is a consequence of some very Anglo-Saxon characteristics. ( I dont really mean Anglo-Saxon - It is in reality more the way in which limited companies in the UK and US have been set up to function.)

[AF62]

I am aware that some European countries are more protectionist than the UK and place legal barriers to retain the perceived benefit of local business against large multi-nationals. Personally I consider if you need to force people to use small shops, then you are admitting they are a bit rubbish and have already lost the argument.

But there is no forcing of people to use small shops.

Really? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12853355

So why did they try and restrict where large retailers could operate.

[stockton]

So why did they try and restrict where large retailers could operate.

That would be to protect the regions tourist revenues. I cannot see a Spanish council having any particular interest in small shops per se.

[AF62]

So why did they try and restrict where large retailers could operate.

That would be to protect the regions tourist revenues.

Tourists? it wouldn't appear so - https://www.pri.org/stories/2011-04-13/ ... sses-spain

I cannot see a Spanish council having any particular interest in small shops per se.

I think they did - from the above "Until now they've had strong local laws to protect them against places like Las Arenas"

[stockton]

I think they did - from the above "Until now they've had strong local laws to protect them against places like Las Arenas"

I repeat - the laws are to protect tourist revenues. Small shops are what attract tourists.
It is much the same as fishermen protecting worms.

[AF62]

I think they did - from the above "Until now they've had strong local laws to protect them against places like Las Arenas"

I repeat - the laws are to protect tourist revenues. Small shops are what attract tourists.
It is much the same as fishermen protecting worms.

Again from the above “One such shop is a curtain and sheets boutique called Fantastic”. Perhaps I am unusual but when I was last in Barcelona for the weekend I didn’t spend time browsing the small curtain shops.

[vrdiver]

All that is great in theory but can you actually point to a store which does charge different prices in store and online?

Since you ask, yes.
Media Markt, a very large European electric and electronic retailer. You can walk round like any other retailer, or you can go to a till and announce that you have come to buy from the online catalogue, whereupon the assistant will pull out a copy of the catalogue from the desk and place the online order for you.
The items in the online catalogue may well be priced differently from those in store.

Sounds like the nonsense Currys / Dixons tried in the UK 10 years ago. All that happened was people went in store and chose the item, staff couldn't price match the online offer so the customer would pull out their phone and do a 'click and collect' purchase. Staff member then has to carry the item to the checkout to hand over to the customer.

Currys / Dixons realised it was stupid and abandoned the differential pricing, so it just seems French retailers are 10 years behind the UK.

Our local PetsAtHome has higher prices in-store than on-line (at least for the stuff I want to buy). I know this because on-line I can place an "easy repeat" order to get a discount, then cancel the repeat order, or delay it until I need more stuff. Alternatively I can buy multiple packs to get a discount on some products. This facility isn't available in-store. It's been this way for at least the last three years, and consequently they miss out on all the discretionary spending I'd normally make whilst in-store, which instead ends up at a Supermarket. They also have to provide "free" delivery, which actually saves me the cost of going to that particular retail park, so on-line is even cheaper.

VRD

[stockton]

Again from the above “One such shop is a curtain and sheets boutique called Fantastic”. Perhaps I am unusual but when I was last in Barcelona for the weekend I didn’t spend time browsing the small curtain shops.

Have you forgotten that half the world is female ?

[AF62]

Since you ask, yes.
Media Markt, a very large European electric and electronic retailer. You can walk round like any other retailer, or you can go to a till and announce that you have come to buy from the online catalogue, whereupon the assistant will pull out a copy of the catalogue from the desk and place the online order for you.
The items in the online catalogue may well be priced differently from those in store.

Sounds like the nonsense Currys / Dixons tried in the UK 10 years ago. All that happened was people went in store and chose the item, staff couldn't price match the online offer so the customer would pull out their phone and do a 'click and collect' purchase. Staff member then has to carry the item to the checkout to hand over to the customer.

Currys / Dixons realised it was stupid and abandoned the differential pricing, so it just seems French retailers are 10 years behind the UK.

Our local PetsAtHome has higher prices in-store than on-line (at least for the stuff I want to buy). I know this because on-line I can place an "easy repeat" order to get a discount, then cancel the repeat order, or delay it until I need more stuff. Alternatively I can buy multiple packs to get a discount on some products. This facility isn't available in-store. It's been this way for at least the last three years, and consequently they miss out on all the discretionary spending I'd normally make whilst in-store, which instead ends up at a Supermarket. They also have to provide "free" delivery, which actually saves me the cost of going to that particular retail park, so on-line is even cheaper.

VRD

Close but not quite as it is not the same thing which is being offered at different prices (repeat orders and multi-buy vs single item).

Again from the above “One such shop is a curtain and sheets boutique called Fantastic”. Perhaps I am unusual but when I was last in Barcelona for the weekend I didn’t spend time browsing the small curtain shops.

Have you forgotten that half the world is female ?

I don’t know what women you know, but none that I know would go shopping for curtains and sheets when they are on holiday in Spain! Far more interested in clothing, jewellery, etc. - stuff for them. Your suggestion would be like buying them something with a plug on for birthday or Christmas!

[stockton]

I don’t know what women you know, but none that I know would go shopping for curtains and sheets when they are on holiday in Spain! Far more interested in clothing, jewellery, etc. - stuff for them.

It is all a question of imagination. I think that what I use as very practical handkerchiefs were being sold as napkins in one of those "boutique" household decoration shops.