Yr Wyddfa

[Rhyd6]

Hi Nimrod103, I think "withver" is closest but both are preferable to the "Er Widder" which is often used by some visitors.

As for you bluedonkey you've obviously been to North West Wales, they're a rum lot there, we're much friendlier in the East. Look on the bright side, we don't hold 300 year grudges like some Scots.

R6

[marronier]

While we're on the subject of correct pronunciations can you please remember to say " Lunnon" like what the locals pronounce it ,nah what I mean? None of this " Lerndon" or "Lawndon " nonsense.

Please consider local sensibilities and avoid upsetting folk.

[Mike88]

Hi Nimrod103, I think "withver" is closest but both are preferable to the "Er Widder" which is often used by some visitors.

As for you bluedonkey you've obviously been to North West Wales, they're a rum lot there, we're much friendlier in the East. Look on the bright side, we don't hold 300 year grudges like some Scots.

R6

From my experience of living and working in North East Wales a very long time ago I found most of the people living there were either from Liverpool or Cheshire.

[Lootman]

As for you bluedonkey you've obviously been to North West Wales, they're a rum lot there, we're much friendlier in the East.

Where is the line drawn there? I have been to Conway (Conwy?) a few times and they were very friendly there. But I thought the people in Rhyl were rude - perhaps too many English tourists annoying the locals?

I imagine the people in Anglesea are very nice, but I couldn't find any there.

The people in South Wales claim to be nicer than the people in North Wales, but then I suppose they would say that, wouldn't they?

[Rhyd6]

Well to be honest you'd be hard pushed to find a Welshman in Cardiff except the "professional" welsh who are in the Sennedd or BBC Wales
I agree here in the North East we do have a large proportion of English incomers but a lot of them do try and learn Welsh. Until lock down we had a thriving Welsh club in our local, we'd just sit and chat using basic phrases as you would with a child and then work from there. There were always between 20 ans 30 people and quite a number of them attended night classes for more formal instruction and one couple who are keen walkers always had language tapes with them when walking. Lot of incomers on Anglesey but tourism is keeps the island going. There are awkward beggars here and there but that's the same the world over.
Rhyl - Rhyl used to be a wonderful place, we always went there on our Sunday School outing and it was a very popular desination in the days when people went on holiday in the UK. Unfortunately once people discovered the availability of cheap holidays abroad with sunshine almost guaranteed business in Rhyl nosedived. The final nail in the coffin was about 15-20 years ago, Rhyl had an abundance of cheap accommodation, Liverpool and Birkenhead had an abundance of problem families and dropouts some bright spark working for Liverpool council approached Clwyd council with a proposition that appeared to be mutually advantageous to both sides. Need I say anymore.

R6

[AleisterCrowley]

I always thought Rhyl was like Blackpool without the 'class'...
Llandudno, on the other hand, is very fine indeed.

[dionaeamuscipula]

Well to be honest you'd be hard pushed to find a Welshman in Cardiff except the "professional" welsh who are in the Sennedd or BBC Wales

Ahem. Cardiff is full of people from West Wales. I will bet there are more Welsh speakers in Cardiff than anywhere else in the world.

And I am Welsh - my sports governing body says so.

Even though I had barely set foot in the place until I was nearly 50.

DM

[Lootman]

I always thought Rhyl was like Blackpool without the 'class'...

Llandudno, on the other hand, is very fine indeed.

Ah yes, Llandudno, the gay capital of Wales so I am told. Anything you wish to share?

[AleisterCrowley]

News to me !

It's very nice though - the front hasn't got miles of fast food joints and amusement arcades , and the pier is excellent.

[Lootman]

News to me !

It's very nice though - the front hasn't got miles of fast food joints and amusement arcades , and the pier is excellent.

Yep, it is a lovely town. I was told of its popularity with gays by a very gay couple I know. Not surprising really as gays tend to gravitate towards more elegant places e.g. Brighton, Berlin, Barcelona, Amsterdam and San Francisco.

[brightncheerful]

I did a job in Denbigh: very nice people, agreed to pay more than necessary.

[AleisterCrowley]

News to me !

It's very nice though - the front hasn't got miles of fast food joints and amusement arcades , and the pier is excellent.

Yep, it is a lovely town. I was told of its popularity with gays by a very gay couple I know. Not surprising really as gays tend to gravitate towards more elegant places e.g. Brighton, Berlin, Barcelona, Amsterdam and San Francisco.

Not the whole of Berlin, surely?! Some friends of mine lived near Berlin and worked in the city for many years. One of them in Kreuzberg, which isn't what you'd call ..elegant. I never visted them when I had the chance (damn fool me) but it is (or was) quite an edgy place apparently, due to the years of isolation: a cast of draft dodgers, radicals, artists, down and outs. Pretty much like Brighton.

[tjh290633]

I learnt to fly in Cardiff, and Air Traffic Control used English, as is normal. Being in a Tiger Moth, I had no radio, so communication with the caravan was by Aldis Lamp or Verey Pistol in emergency. Lingua franca, truly. When I went to school in Monmouth, the Principality was "Wales and Monmouthshire", and those who had gone to primary school in Wales did learn some Welsh. That apart, when discovering that window was ffenester in Welsh, close to the French fenester, was the only time I heard any Welsh. Land of my Fathers was sung in English. Back then the Welsh name for Monmouth was Abermynwy, mouth of the Monnow. Now it is Trefynwy. I wonder which is authentic?

Of course the castles defending the border tend to follow the Monnow.

TJH

[Mike88]

Well to be honest you'd be hard pushed to find a Welshman in Cardiff except the "professional" welsh who are in the Sennedd or BBC Wales

Ahem. Cardiff is full of people from West Wales.

DM

Having lived and worked in Cardiff for over 50 years that is news to me.

[jackdaww]

.

local welsh speakers (south west wales ) suggest ---

Er weethva

Er-with-va

north waleians my have other ideas though ..

[stewamax]

In North Wales Welsh:
- ‘w’ is almost always a vowel pronounced ‘oo’ (as in poo!)
- ‘dd’ is a voiced* th (as in ‘the’) and not unvoiced (as in ‘with’)
- ‘y’ is mostly uh (as in hum)


But ‘Wyddfa’ makes life a bit difficult as it thus starts with two vowels, and oo-u-th-va trippeth more clumsily off the tongue than oo-i-th-va. North Waleans say the latter, something that always obtains when a word ends in 'wy': for example pwy [who] is pronounced pooey and not pooer.

Rhyd6 is sadly only too correct about Rhyl’s downfall. I was brought up in the next small town (Prestatyn), and even in my boyhood Rhyl was Liverpudlians-on-holiday, two huge amusement parks (Ocean Beach and Marine Lake), candy floss and cheap-and-cheerful, while Prestatyn held on to its fading and slightly genteel past, a standard that Llandudno has maintained. One difference between Rhyl and the other two is that in each case one family is or was a dominant landowner: in Prestatyn’s case it is/was Prestatyn Estates (the landholdings of the Pochin family, later and through marriage Aberconway); in Llandudno’s case it is very much still owned by Mostyn Estates (of the Mostyn family – of Mostyn!). Rhyl by comparison was a rudderless mongrel, whose only attraction was the Autumnal illuminations along the promenade (does R6 remember these?)


<pedant>
* it is a voiced dental fricative digraph, from the OE and ME digraphs ‘thorn’ and ‘eth’
</pedant>

[Mike88]

In North Wales Welsh:
- ‘w’ is almost always a vowel pronounced ‘oo’ (as in poo!)
- ‘dd’ is a voiced* th (as in ‘the’) and not unvoiced (as in ‘with’)
- ‘y’ is mostly uh (as in hum)


But ‘Wyddfa’ makes life a bit difficult as it thus starts with two vowels, and oo-u-th-va trippeth more clumsily off the tongue than oo-i-th-va. North Waleans say the latter, something that always obtains when a word ends in 'wy': for example pwy [who] is pronounced pooey and not pooer.

Rhyd6 is sadly only too correct about Rhyl’s downfall. I was brought up in the next small town (Prestatyn), and even in my boyhood Rhyl was Liverpudlians-on-holiday, two huge amusement parks (Ocean Beach and Marine Lake), candy floss and cheap-and-cheerful, while Prestatyn held on to its fading and slightly genteel past, a standard that Llandudno has maintained. One difference between Rhyl and the other two is that in each case one family is or was a dominant landowner: in Prestatyn’s case it is/was Prestatyn Estates (the landholdings of the Pochin family, later and through marriage Aberconway); in Llandudno’s case it is very much still owned by Mostyn Estates (of the Mostyn family – of Mostyn!). Rhyl by comparison was a rudderless mongrel, whose only attraction was the Autumnal illuminations along the promenade (does R6 remember these?)


<pedant>
* it is a voiced dental fricative digraph, from the OE and ME digraphs ‘thorn’ and ‘eth’
</pedant>

In the late 1960's I worked temporarily in Colwyn Bay and lived in KInmel Bay. In the evenings I regularly walked across the bridge to Rhyl which at that time was quite a nice place to visit. When I returned about 50 years later I was saddened to see how the place had deteriorated. Prestatyn similarly.

[Rhyd6]

Stewamax, I do indeed remember the Rhyl illuminations. When I was young I used to love going to Rhyl, a day out in Rhyl baths was my idea of heaven. I remember they had a troup of synchronised swimmers and was transfixed watching their performance. My friends and I used to try and copy them but without much success, even today I only have to hear the song "Charmaine" and I'm back in the baths watching those swimmers.
Still on the subject of Welsh names, I was stopped not long ago by a chap in a van asking if I knew where the "Sigh Mo" was. Not having heard of the place I asked if he had a copy of the address, it turned out he was looking for Cymau pronounced "Come eye".

R6

[jackdaww]

.

on our annual holida day out by train from birmingham in the 1950's colwyn bay was our choice , rhyl was considered a bit down market .

returning to colwyn bay about ten years ago was a shock - very run down .

llandudno is still good.

colwyn bay was my first experience of the sea.

[zico]

.

on our annual holida day out by train from birmingham in the 1950's colwyn bay was our choice , rhyl was considered a bit down market .

returning to colwyn bay about ten years ago was a shock - very run down .

llandudno is still good.

colwyn bay was my first experience of the sea.

I think Llandudno is pronounced - Clan - Did - Know. Is that right?