Emperor's new clothes or a masterpiece?

[MaraMan]

Art is a personal thing and there is no right or wrong, just what you like or appreciate and what you don't.

I like Rothko very much. I don't think you can get the full effect unless you have seen them in the flesh as it were. Art either evokes an emotional response in you or it doesn't. I recall seeing Hockney's "A Bigger Picture" exhibition in the RA, I have long appreciated some of his work, but I was not prepared for the physical effect of seeing some of the huge ones. Literally they took my breath away.

Each to their own. You can't argue someone into liking something, although a little education can sometimes help.

MM

[bungeejumper]

I still haven't made my mind up about Terry Riley's 'In C', mainly because I never get much beyond five minutes before going quietly insane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNi0bukYRnA

Thanks for that. (I think I mean it. ) I lasted thirty seconds, after which I fast-forwarded the piece in search of something that didn't remind me of the old toothpaste ad. The one where a little girl can't sleep for the sound of hundreds of little men inside her head, demolishing her teeth with tiny pickaxes.

I am a bit better with totally abstract art, such as Mondrian, who didn't feel a need to load his aesthetics with politics or autobiography. Or with composers like Varèse (much loved by Frank Zappa) who use a tonal system but don't try to make a PhD thesis of it.

BJ

[sg31]

Huh, I'm still waiting for an offer on one of my earlier pieces from my Covid period?

viewtopic.php?p=399743#p399743

I believe it to be an absolute steal. Anyway, must get on, need to start to repaint the kitchen today.

Much too linear.....apart from the circles. It could do with a few more circles.

Obviously I'm talking about the price.

[Mike4]

Huh, I'm still waiting for an offer on one of my earlier pieces from my Covid period?

viewtopic.php?p=399743#p399743

I believe it to be an absolute steal. Anyway, must get on, need to start to repaint the kitchen today.

I'm imagining it looks even more impressive in real life....

[monabri]

Huh, I'm still waiting for an offer on one of my earlier pieces from my Covid period?

viewtopic.php?p=399743#p399743

I believe it to be an absolute steal. Anyway, must get on, need to start to repaint the kitchen today.

I'm imagining it looks even more impressive in real life....

The kitchen or the digital art? I've got a luvverly toaster!

[Mike4]

Huh, I'm still waiting for an offer on one of my earlier pieces from my Covid period?

viewtopic.php?p=399743#p399743

I believe it to be an absolute steal. Anyway, must get on, need to start to repaint the kitchen today.

I'm imagining it looks even more impressive in real life....

The kitchen or the digital art? I've got a luvverly toaster!

Both, obviously!!

[monabri]

I'm actually moving into my Zima blue period.

[AleisterCrowley]

I still haven't made my mind up about Terry Riley's 'In C', mainly because I never get much beyond five minutes before going quietly insane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNi0bukYRnA

Thanks for that. (I think I mean it. ) I lasted thirty seconds, after which I fast-forwarded the piece in search of something that didn't remind me of the old toothpaste ad. The one where a little girl can't sleep for the sound of hundreds of little men inside her head, demolishing her teeth with tiny pickaxes.

I am a bit better with totally abstract art, such as Mondrian, who didn't feel a need to load his aesthetics with politics or autobiography. Or with composers like Varèse (much loved by Frank Zappa) who use a tonal system but don't try to make a PhD thesis of it.

BJ

Try this from Mr Reed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIMSbKU2oZM

[stevensfo]

I still haven't made my mind up about Terry Riley's 'In C', mainly because I never get much beyond five minutes before going quietly insane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNi0bukYRnA

Thanks for that. (I think I mean it. ) I lasted thirty seconds, after which I fast-forwarded the piece in search of something that didn't remind me of the old toothpaste ad. The one where a little girl can't sleep for the sound of hundreds of little men inside her head, demolishing her teeth with tiny pickaxes.

I am a bit better with totally abstract art, such as Mondrian, who didn't feel a need to load his aesthetics with politics or autobiography. Or with composers like Varèse (much loved by Frank Zappa) who use a tonal system but don't try to make a PhD thesis of it.

BJ

Try this from Mr Reed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIMSbKU2oZM

One hour long?

I love the comments underneath!

Steve

[XFool]

Try this from Mr Reed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIMSbKU2oZM

One hour long?

I love the comments underneath!

"Does anyone have this transcribed for Ukulele?"

[stewamax]

A few years ago my daughter took me around a gallery in Bremen to admire their Modern Art exhibition. Huge queues etc, but the exhibits left me cold. But I happened then to wander into an uninhabited side gallery and was knocked out by the Cranachs and Durers that I could get close to and admire the exquisite detail.

[NotSure]

Referring to the OP, I nearly choked on my cocoa when I looked at the piece in question, yet I too found the blue and yellow one pleasing to look at.

The debate reminds me of the claim that Formula One motor racing is dull because all the cars just go around and around the track and who cares if the red one or the blue one wins?

For F1 to have meaning one needs to know who the drivers are, their records, their rivalries, their histories with the various constructor teams, the constructor teams, their histories, who runs them and who works for them, and on it all goes. Then seeing a race begins to make sense, as does all the pre-race qualifying.

Contemporary and conceptual art is rather similar. Yes if a painting or installation means nothing to you that is fine, but it meaning nothing says as much about you as it says about the painting or installation. Also, seeing it in real life is a totally different experience from a video or photo. Same applies to both a painting and an F1 race.

I'm a STEM sort of guy, but I totally agree. Not an F1 fan, but I love watching road cycling, which if you do not understand the background must the most tedious thing imaginable, yet if you do, it's more like chess than sport.

I do have more artistically minded friends who have explained to me that the history of art is like a very long conversation - so if you dive in late on (e.g. Rothko) you have no context and it makes no sense.

The best thing I have seen that helped to 'educate' me was a 3 part documentary on the art of France - prior to WWII, Paris had been the centre of the world for art for many years, and it was the epicentre of the impressionism then abstract. If anyone is interested: https://hdclump.com/the-art-of-france-documentary/.

Still don't 'get' that Rothko from the OP though, unless conveying 'sardonic depression' was the aim.

[bungeejumper]

The best thing I have seen that helped to 'educate' me was a 3 part documentary on the art of France - prior to WWII, Paris had been the centre of the world for art for many years, and it was the epicentre of the impressionism then abstract. If anyone is interested: https://hdclump.com/the-art-of-france-documentary/.

Seconded. I re-watched it on iPlayer last month, and it was one of Andrew Graham-Dixon's best. He never lets go of the connections between the whole national-philosophy thing and the art world through the whole Versailles > revolution > impressionist > twenties sequence. And then he finishes off with a passable explanation of why Paris eventually stopped being the epicentre of everything.

Helluva lot better than the BBC's recent screening on the Getty family's art foundation (https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b ... rt-dynasty), which was so badly structured that I eventually stopped caring which of the dozens of historical Gettys was which? 74 minutes of my life that I'll never get back. It's a pity, there was an interesting dynastic story in there somewhere, but this wasn't it.

BJ

[stewamax]

...it was one of Andrew Graham-Dixon's best...

As an art philistine, I quite enjoyed watching Graham-Dixon in Italy Unpacked zoom around Italy in a Maserati accompanied by chef and restaurateur Giorgio Locatelli: a bit of good art and a bit of good food (and drink) - nothing too serious.

[Clitheroekid]

More emperor's new clothes. There are a couple of pieces that I like, but many of them hold no appeal at all for me, despite the best efforts of the people wheeled on by Sotheby's to give them credibility - https://www.sothebys.com/en/the-macklow ... urce=zaius

This, for example - http://www.rudedo.be/amarant09/wp-conte ... olke08.jpg - has an estimate of $8–12 million, but doesn't look any better to me for being told:

By breaking down the cohesiveness of the picture, Polke subverts the authority of the image, questioning the ‘objective truth’ of its subject, and unraveling the romantic promise offered by commercial images in postwar Germany.

Likewise, although I do like some of Warhol's work I can see virtually no real merit in the `Nine Marilyns', which has an estimate of $40–60 million - https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/im ... &width=700

But no doubt there will enough wealthy idiots who are willing to pay squillions for mediocrity provided the mediocrity is solemnly certified as Great Art by someone posh from Sotheby's!

Incidentally, it's ironic that this collection didn't bring its owners any joy. The reason the collection's being sold is that the owners, Harry and Linda Macklowe, are getting divorced, and the sale is by court order - https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/09/sotheby ... ction.html

Needless to say I won't be bidding!

[bungeejumper]

More emperor's new clothes. There are a couple of pieces that I like, but many of them hold no appeal at all for me, despite the best efforts of the people wheeled on by Sotheby's to give them credibility - https://www.sothebys.com/en/the-macklow ... urce=zaius

Hmmmm, yes. I'd say the filmic cultural influences range from Jurassic Park to the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Speaking of which, we were at the Bishop's Palace gardens in Wells this week, where this lively gentleman (ahem, "pilgrim") greets you as you enter the premises. Gaunt, staring, slightly staggering, eight feet tall, and evidently an escapee from a zombie movie. The axe mark on the forehead is a particularly endearing touch, I feel?


BJ

[didds]

[quote="bungeejumper"

Speaking of which, we were at the Bishop's Palace gardens in Wells this week,[/quote]

a most excellent and relaxing place to visit Though my favourite part is the town allotments adjacent to the gardens

[stewamax]

I am an art philistine.
Daughter #2 took me round a widely-touted exhibition of modern art in Bremen. It left me cold.
However, by chance I sneaked into a side-gallery displaying some stunning paintings by Cranach (the Elder, I think). Although an informed commentary would have made the viewing more worthwhile, I didn't need one to appreciate them.

I suppose the converse is true of Tracey Emin's 'My Bed' - which I trust is 'art' and not a true copy of Ms Emin's current bed, although may have been at the time it was created as she had led a somewhat wayward life. Is it artistic or clever to put the detritus of squalid life by your bed? As a philistine I don't know. Charles Saatchi must know better - he paid her £150K for it.

[kiloran]

This, for example - http://www.rudedo.be/amarant09/wp-conte ... olke08.jpg - has an estimate of $8–12 million, but doesn't look any better to me for being told:

By breaking down the cohesiveness of the picture, Polke subverts the authority of the image, questioning the ‘objective truth’ of its subject, and unraveling the romantic promise offered by commercial images in postwar Germany.

I sometimes question whether I should be sad or proud that I am incapable of writing such a sentence.
Then I come to my senses and know that I am proud.

What a load of twaddle!

--kiloran

[SimonS]

A few years ago my daughter took me around a gallery in Bremen to admire their Modern Art exhibition. Huge queues etc, but the exhibits left me cold. But I happened then to wander into an uninhabited side gallery and was knocked out by the Cranachs and Durers that I could get close to and admire the exquisite detail.

In the commentary accompanying the rothko sale item
"As with many of those greatest works, the present example is rendered in a deeply penetrative black oil paint which coalesces in three abyssal zones that float over a smoldering field of garnet. With its rich and tonal depth of color, emphasized by the masterfully feathered brushstrokes,"

You need to get close enough to appreciate that luminous quality of blackness, the rich contrast between the dark and the garnet, the effective reflection of fractalism in the fringe where garnet becomes black and the vague threat of tectonic violence in the echoes of seismograpkic vibration surrounding the dark of the human condition.

At least that's what my TOMAI** programme suggests .

SimonS


Ps ** AI for the manipulation of taurine offcast.