Starman

[MrFoolish]

I hear that Jeff Besoz is about to fly into space.

Am I the only one who thinks... so what?

I just don't get it. Why is this trip fundamentally any more exciting than going up in a plane?

So the sky will be a bit darker - big friggin deal. You aren't going to land on the moon. You aren't going to float around the cabin. You aren't going to get an impressive full view of the Earth out of the window. Yes there's less air outside, but I wouldn't stick my head out of an aeroplane window either.

Someone please explain it to me.

[ReformedCharacter]

I hear that Jeff Besoz is about to fly into space.

Am I the only one who thinks... so what?

I just don't get it. Why is this trip fundamentally any more exciting than going up in a plane?

So the sky will be a bit darker - big friggin deal. You aren't going to land on the moon. You aren't going to float around the cabin. You aren't going to get an impressive full view of the Earth out of the window. Yes there's less air outside, but I wouldn't stick my head out of an aeroplane window either.

Someone please explain it to me.

You will apparently experience 'weightlessness' for a few minutes during the 11 minute flight, probably when it's falling back to earth

But, there may well be a market for it. It'll be interesting to see if there's room for Virgin Galactic too, given they're marketing essentially the same deal.

RC

[Itsallaguess]

I hear that Jeff Besoz is about to fly into space.

Am I the only one who thinks... so what?

Probably not - but then I'm probably not the only one that gets very excited by this sort of stuff either...

I think it's great, and it generates a level of awe and wonder in me that's quite frankly pretty rare these days, and given all the cr*p that's going on at ground-level right now, I say more power to Besoz's elbow, and Musk with his brilliant Space-X stuff, and also Branson with his Virgin Orbit plans, and if they're actually competing in this fantastic technological sphere right now, then for me that's all the better for it, because they'll hopefully push each other, and us, into areas we'd probably never have dreamt of just a few years ago....

I followed the Space Shuttle stuff with the same level of keen interest, and some of the saddest days of my life were when the Challenger and Columbia disasters occurred with that programme, with those tragedies televised live right into our fronts rooms, reminding us of the bravery that these people muster, and how amazing it is that people are willing to put their lives at risk to push the boundaries of what we're able to achieve in this area...

So I'll be watching with keen interest, and hoping it all goes well and they're able to mark this as just one step on what I hope is a long, long journey towards a dream of mine that I've had for many, many years now, which is to see us step foot on Mars before I fall off my more earth-bound twig...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[MrFoolish]

You will apparently experience 'weightlessness' for a few minutes during the 11 minute flight, probably when it's falling back to earth
RC

The same vaguely unpleasant sensation you get in an elevator? I think I'll pass.

[scrumpyjack]

https://www.blueorigin.com/new-shepard/

It does look rather a fun ride and does get one above the Karman line which is apparently the point at which 'space' starts. Should be a hell of a view.

[mc2fool]

I hear that Jeff Besoz is about to fly into space.
:
Someone please explain it to me.

Methinks you have missed an important bit of information there.

Bezos will be going on the first crewed flight of the New Shepard, the rocket ship made by Blue Origin, his space company.

So, aside from the possible kid in him wanting to be a spaceman factor, there is also a putting his life where his mouth is factor, and not to forget, the marketing and publicity factor.

[swill453]

If Earth was represented by a sphere 1 metre in diameter, the height he will reach would be 7.5mm from the surface. About the diameter of a pencil.

Even the ISS is 4 times higher. GPS satellites are 200 times higher and communications satellites are nearly 400 times higher.

Like you say, big deal.

Scott.

[csearle]

I think that a view of our Earth from a vantage point that is dark and where you can perceive the slender veil that is our atmosphere would be worth seeing. Tragically my income precludes it. But I don't begrudge anyone who had the necessary reddies. C.

[swill453]

The things people will do to avoid the global 15% corporation tax...

Scott.

[Itsallaguess]

Some clips here that have blown my mind in just the past NINE YEARS in this sort of arena -

Felix Baumgartner Space Jump World Record (October 2012) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvbN-cWe0A0

Elon Musk launches a car into space (February 2018) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reMTcjw_Tcw

Falcon Heavy #2 (SpaceX) Launch & Multiple Booster Landings (April 2019) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY-fSnKTLqw&t=104s / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUFwR364Hq8

I suppose I could blame my parents for the brilliant Christmas I got both a Mecanno set and a Space 1999 Eagle spaceship, but these sorts of things still take me right back to that open-eyed wonder that I used to have, reading about the Apollo space programme and watching the early Shuttle flights.

Proper 'Boys Own' stuff...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[kiloran]

Some clips here that have blown my mind in just the past NINE YEARS in this sort of arena -

Felix Baumgartner Space Jump World Record (October 2012) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvbN-cWe0A0

Elon Musk launches a car into space (February 2018) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reMTcjw_Tcw

Falcon Heavy #2 (SpaceX) Launch & Multiple Booster Landings (April 2019) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY-fSnKTLqw&t=104s / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUFwR364Hq8

I suppose I could blame my parents for the brilliant Christmas I got both a Mecanno set and a Space 1999 Eagle spaceship, but these sorts of things still take me right back to that open-eyed wonder that I used to have, reading about the Apollo space programme and watching the early Shuttle flights.

Proper 'Boys Own' stuff...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Nothing can beat the awe and wonder watching the live, grainy, black and white TV pictures when Armstrong took that first walk. After that, everything else is/was an anti-climax

--kiloran

[MrFoolish]

Some clips here that have blown my mind in just the past NINE YEARS in this sort of arena -

To be fair, I'm also excited by Musk's efforts, which seem to have real ambition and potential (e.g. with satellites).

But this space tourism stuff just seems lame to me. Bragging rights for billionaires. Branson's effort seems particularly pointless and typically self-serving.

BTW, has Bezos ever been given a proper interview? Whenever I've seen him interviewed it is always by someone sucking up to him, lobbing him softball questions.

[ReformedCharacter]

Personally, the Saturn 5/Apollo launches have always done It for me - especially when that big rocket rolls on to its side and the taps are opened up fully.

I can't wait for the next moon launches.

We shouldn't have long to wait for a Starship Heavy launch. Taller and wider than a Saturn V with about twice the power. What's more ambitious still is the plan to eventually grab hold of the boosters from the air as they about to land and place them on a service stand where maintenance can be carried out before refueling and subsequent re-launch. 48 hour turnaround planned. SpaceX are apparently close to manufacturing an engine in just 48 hours at a cost of $250 000. Each complete Starship is estimated to cost about $100M. In contrast, NASA have spent $20B developing the less powerful Space Launch System which is estimated to have a launch cost of $2B.

RC

[ReformedCharacter]

It would appear that Musk has priced himself too cheaply.

I don't know how profitable the company is right now but it's definitely focused on mass production techniques, 3D component printing and the modern idea of 'breaking things and moving fast'. He certainly hasn't priced himself too cheaply for his own purposes, such as Starlink, a constellation of low earth-orbit Internet satellites, currently numbering c. 1650 and already providing services to paying customers including the US military. The fact that he can put these in orbit on launchers that have been used many times previously gives a huge cost advantage. Currently they are aiming - and have achieved - using the first stage boosters 10 times. The first stage booster represents 75% of each launch cost. This amounts to a very significant economic advantage. Nor does SpaceX shy from developing innovative technology, the Raptor engines developed for the Starship are the first methane \ oxygen engines to fly, a technological first. One of the reasons that they are methane powered is that methane can be made on Mars by the Sabatier process. The engines are also 'full flow' ie. make full use of the fuel used to power the turbopumps that supply the fuel at high pressure to the fuel injectors, improving efficiency.

As of August 2020, Raptor holds the record for the highest combustion chamber pressure ever reached by an operational rocket engine, at 330 bar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Raptor

The decision to use 'stock' stainless steel for the rocket stages is also innovative, they buy the steel in what looks like standard rolls and then weld them together in hoops and then weld the hoops together. Quick and very inexpensive compared to the alternatives. Having developed the ability to do this they are now using the same tank making techniques to manufacture their own fuel storage tanks for their fuel 'farms' at their launch facilities.

Compare and contrast with Jeff Bezos's Blue Origin which has also planned a constellation of thousands of low orbit communication satellites. BO are also developing a methane \ oxygen powered rocket and have a contract to supply the United Launch Alliance with them. BO seem to have had engine development difficulties, posing a problem for ULA and producing the embarrassment and cost of having to use another company's rockets to deliver their own satellites to orbit, (although they haven't actually launched any yet).

Musk's ambition is hugely impressive and he seems to be delivering on that ambition. Being (just) a child of the Space Age and as someone who remembers watching some of the first manned rocket flights as a child I find this ambition both exciting and optimistic. Just 10 years ago this would have looked like science-fiction. Perhaps I will live long enough to see people land on Mars and if so it will likely be due to the huge push that Musk is providing to make this possible.

RC

[UncleEbenezer]

Where's our own Foolish bungeejumper?

Seems a perfect analogy: both get momentary weightlessness, both get a momentary View, a thrill of danger, bragging rights.

I feel no great inclination towards either, but if pressed I'd take the bungee.