Forza italia!

[SalvorHardin]

If the Italian first team turn up them Ingurland have a big problem.

I'm Welsh (plus bits of Northern Irish, Dutch and Italian). Rugby Union is my main sport (after Cricket) and I'm somewhat ambivalent as to the English football team (but not the rugby team, though nowadays I do cheer England in the Calcutta Cup because of the SNP!)

I had £3,000 on Italy at 9-1 pre tournament. Italy are now 4-5 to win, England evens. I've laid it all off. Same amount won whoever wins (okay, £10 more if England wins).

If Italy turn up like they did against us with their second eleven, England are screwed. But if Italy turn up with the same team that beat Austria, England will win handsomely.

[Sorcery]

If the Italian first team turn up them Ingurland have a big problem.

I'm Welsh (plus bits of Northern Irish, Dutch and Italian). Rugby Union is my main sport (after Cricket) and I'm somewhat ambivalent as to the English football team (but not the rugby team, though nowadays I do cheer England in the Calcutta Cup because of the SNP!)

I had £3,000 on Italy at 9-1 pre tournament. Italy are now 4-5 to win, England evens. I've laid it all off. Same amount won whoever wins (okay, £10 more if England wins).

If Italy turn up like they did against us with their second eleven, England are screwed. But if Italy turn up with the same team that beat Austria, England will win handsomely.

Well I didn't rate either of the teams in the Italy Spain game. So am feeling quite positive about the final, for England. When did Italy's second 11 play England? I think I missed that one.

[pje16]

Snorvey's plan to miss me by creating a new thread hasn't worked
Come on England

[AsleepInYorkshire]

Come on England!

AiY

[SalvorHardin]

Well I didn't rate either of the teams in the Italy Spain game. So am feeling quite positive about the final, for England. When did Italy's second 11 play England? I think I missed that one.

Italy beat Wales 1-0 in the group stage. With their second XI.

They were dominant. Made us look as bad as the Scots at times

I'm Welsh

[simoan]

I find nationalism of any kind utterly depressing. When it comes to sport my first love is rugby union and yet I dislike the Six Nations for that very reason. I find the fact that people born in the 20th and 21st centuries still hold a dislike for another country within the UK because of events that may have happened centuries ago is totally ridiculous. I personally have more friends that are Irish and Scottish than I do English friends and they are well aware of my feelings. Yes, it's great to celebrate the different cultures within the UK, but we have more in common than we do with any other countries, and yet here we are again...

All the best, Si

[Sorcery]

I find nationalism of any kind utterly depressing. When it comes to sport my first love is rugby union and yet I dislike the Six Nations for that very reason. I find the fact that people born in the 20th and 21st centuries still hold a dislike for another country within the UK because of events that may have happened centuries ago is totally ridiculous. I personally have more friends that are Irish and Scottish than I do English friends and they are well aware of my feelings. Yes, it's great to celebrate the different cultures within the UK, but we have more in common than we do with any other countries, and yet here we are again...

All the best, Si

You don't know what your missing. The build up, the excitement, and finally euphoria or sorrow. It's a little more disturbing to think that this a historical fight to the death. It's Football or Rugby or Cricket, that's all. With the chance to take the p out of anybody of a different opinion, of course

[Sorcery]

Well I didn't rate either of the teams in the Italy Spain game. So am feeling quite positive about the final, for England. When did Italy's second 11 play England? I think I missed that one.

Italy beat Wales 1-0 in the group stage. With their second XI.

They were dominant. Made us look as bad as the Scots at times

I'm Welsh

Oh dear, commiserations are in order then. A little arrogant of the Italians don't you think? It's a good job you have some mates in England who's team might be able to beat them. Good to see the Union working somewhere

[simoan]

I find nationalism of any kind utterly depressing. When it comes to sport my first love is rugby union and yet I dislike the Six Nations for that very reason. I find the fact that people born in the 20th and 21st centuries still hold a dislike for another country within the UK because of events that may have happened centuries ago is totally ridiculous. I personally have more friends that are Irish and Scottish than I do English friends and they are well aware of my feelings. Yes, it's great to celebrate the different cultures within the UK, but we have more in common than we do with any other countries, and yet here we are again...

All the best, Si

You don't know what your missing. The build up, the excitement, and finally euphoria or sorrow. It's a little more disturbing to think that this a historical fight to the death. It's Football or Rugby or Cricket, that's all. With the chance to take the p out of anybody of a different opinion, of course

But I'm not missing anything! I can happily watch England v Germany and enjoy it as an occasion without it being coloured by the fact my Grandad's brothers died fighting them in the Second World War. And I have no idea why I'm meant to want England to beat Scotland more than any other country? I love Scotland and have many Scottish friends. If they were in a final I'd be rooting for them. FWIW I was really looking forward to a walking holiday in Scotland next week but now I'm dreading it for exactly the reason you have posted about here.

Si

[didds]

Yup!

Its all on for Tuesday!!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 2021-07-13

didds

[AsleepInYorkshire]

I had £3,000 on Italy at 9-1 pre tournament.

Come on Italy!

AiY

[SalvorHardin]

I had £3,000 on Italy at 9-1 pre tournament.

Come on Italy!

AiY

I'm not all that fussed now as the bet has all been laid off (quite a bit was laid off before the semi-final as I was a bit nervous about Spain). Now my only bet left makes a mere £10 if England win

Given that I now think that the odds for each team are in line with the bookmakers' forecasts, I didn't want to leave big money bet on the match. Fortunately nowadays the betting exchanges and multiple bookmakers' accounts make it relatively easy (and cheap) to lay off bets. Italy were far too long a price before the tournament, in particular given their track record in recent years (I felt that they should have been favourites, given that they were in an easy group, at around 4-1)

[pje16]

I had £3,000 on Italy at 9-1 pre tournament.

Come on Italy!

AiY

No No and more No !
Our successful gambler (jealous here!)
makes another tenner if England win
which mean we can be patrotic (at the risk of that being frowned upon)

[Mike4]

I'm not all that fussed now as the bet has all been laid off (quite a bit was laid off before the semi-final as I was a bit nervous about Spain). Now my only bet left makes a mere £10 if England win

Given that I now think that the odds for each team are in line with the bookmakers' forecasts, I didn't want to leave big money bet on the match. Fortunately nowadays the betting exchanges and multiple bookmakers' accounts make it relatively easy (and cheap) to lay off bets. Italy were far too long a price before the tournament, in particular given their track record in recent years (I felt that they should have been favourites, given that they were in an easy group, at around 4-1)

Swerving off topic briefly, is there still tax levied on bets? So does this mean laying off bets you've decided were a mistake still costs you the tax, and that laying off now really means adjusting your bets so you lose the same amount regardless of the result rather than being the same as having no exposure in the first place?

Just curious to see if I understand the strange world of gambling correctly. Thanks!

[pje16]

No tax on bets anymore, been that way for a few years now
Some bookies eg Betfair charge commission (but you do get better odds there, which tends to offset that)

[SalvorHardin]

Swerving off topic briefly, is there still tax levied on bets? So does this mean laying off bets you've decided were a mistake still costs you the tax, and that laying off now really means adjusting your bets so you lose the same amount regardless of the result rather than being the same as having no exposure in the first place?

Just curious to see if I understand the strange world of gambling correctly. Thanks!

As pje16 has pointed out, there's no tax paid on bets and hasn't been for quite some time. This greatly helps, not just because it's now cheaper to bet but also because it lets punters bet on short priced odds-on favourites. Under the old betting tax rules, if the odds were short enough then even if your bet won you'd still lose because the tax due was more than your winnings.

Nowadays the lack of tax means that you can bet on stuff like the team in a football match who are 2-0 up with 5 minutes to go. If the teams are of similar levels of skill the odds would be something like 1-500 for this team to win, so that's £500 bet to win £1. Picking up pennies in front of the steamroller. I do this quite a bit (and yes, I have been run over by the proverbial steamroller).

Laying off isn't necessarily because you decide it's a mistake. It's to reduce your exposure and lock in winnings. What I try to do is to find a bet where I think that the odds are too generous. Then over time if things work out the odds shorten and you lay off some or all of the bet at a profit. Most online bookmakers offer "cash-in", where you get roughly 80% of what the bet's current value is (based on their odds), it's usually cheaper to instead bet on the alternatives (if you can, often this requires too much work because there are too many other bets to make to cover all eventualities (e.g. horse race accumulator bets). If the odds have shortened sufficiently you'll make a profit.

Let's say that you have £100 on Italy at 9-1 for Euro 2020. England are now 4-5 to win whilst Italy are evens. To protect some of your £900 winnings on Italy, you bet on England to win. Say £500. So you get £900 back if England win (£500 stake plus £400 winnings) or £1,000 back if Italy win (£100 stake plus £900 winnings). Total outlay on bets £600, in return for which you get £900 or £1,000 so a profit of £300 or £400.

Unfortunately this type of betting can go horribly wrong if the odds don't shorten, and even worse if they lengthen. I only do this type of bet when I spot something which I believe is seriously mispriced.

[Beerpig]

Well its all to play for isn't it?
The super fit English fighting machine against the tricky skilful Italians.
The fully armed St George gladiator against the Roman retiarius (ie the tricky dancing bloke with a trident and net).
Either could win - depends who gets the breaks.
I am probably one of the few here who remember the 1966 final - I watched it on a small black and white TV with my Dad and brothers on a beach in Italy. I recall '70 when Germany nashed us in the semi-finals, Poland putting us out in the qualifiers in 74, Italy doing the same in 78. I remember struggling in the group stages in 82, the close shaves in 86, 90, 96 and so on. Always disappointment after disappointment.
Now as I mellowed over the years, I would like England to win but if Italy do, they will deserve it.
What I detest is the conduct of some of the English supporters booing national anthems and that someone could take a pencil laser to blind the opposition goalkeeper is simply disgraceful.
I only hope this is a good game with plenty of action and goals, and may the best team on the night prevail.
I have a sinking feeling it will be the retiarius, although being an Englishman through and through, I hope not.

[pje16]

I can just about remember 66 and can echo @Beerpig's disappointments over the last few decades
also agree re the d*ckhead contributions by so called fans who give the rest of us a bad name

[AsleepInYorkshire]

I had £3,000 on Italy at 9-1 pre tournament.

Come on Italy!

AiY

No No and more No !
Our successful gambler (jealous here!)
makes another tenner if England win
which mean we can be patrotic (at the risk of that being frowned upon)

Make you're mind up will you

Come on England!

AiY

[pje16]

did I ever say Come on Italy
see I can't even type it