Investment Discussion

[Itsallaguess]

That aside I've stepped back from the CAN Board as its of no benefit to me.

I've found myself arguing to the far end of a fart..

Huge credit for having that level of self-awareness and self-control AiY - you're not alone, and I think there's a great many sensible board-members who can see it largely attracts posters from the following groups -

1. The 'argue-until-the-far-end-of-a-fart' brigade ('I'm afraid that I'm right and you're wrong' section..)

2. The 'argue-until-the-far-end-of-a-fart' brigade ('I ABSOLUTELY refuse to let anyone have the last word on an argument' section..)

3. The 'argue-until-the-far-end-of-a-fart' brigade ('they're not actually falling for my trap, so I'll have to invent a strawman to paint them in a worse light' section..)

4. The 'argue-until-the-far-end-of-a-fart' brigade ('I can turn any discussion at all into a simple left/right political argument' section..)

5. The 'argue-until-the-far-end-of-a-fart' brigade ('what you're talking about is a subjective topic, and as such there is no right and wrong answer - we're clearly going to be here all day' section..)

6. The 'argue-until-the-far-end-of-a-fart' brigade ('this is a financial website consisting of many well-off individuals, who have largely worked hard for their success, but should be made to feel tremendously guilty about this at every opportunity' section..)

7. The 'argue-until-the-far-end-of-a-fart' brigade ('I'm going to break every post that I'm replying to into tiny sub-quotes and thus make every one of my own posts instantly un-readable to anyone daft enough to actually be reading my posts any more' section - note that membership of this section ALWAYS comes with automatic membership of sections 1 and 2...)

8. The 'argue-until-the-far-end-of-a-fart' brigade ('Strictly anti-Tory news' section..)

9. The 'argue-until-the-far-end-of-a-fart' brigade ('I've opened my mid-afternoon bottle of wine, so let the trolling-fun begin' section..)

I think that just about covers it...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Lootman]

7. The 'argue-until-the-far-end-of-a-fart' brigade ('I'm going to break every post that I'm replying to into tiny sub-quotes and thus make every one of my own posts instantly un-readable to anyone daft enough to actually be reading my posts any more' section - note that membership of this section ALWAYS comes with automatic membership of sections 1 and 2...)

You are coming preciously close there to identifying an individual Lemon. Although you should add "and I always put a smiley on the end just to show it's all in fun really".

Although personally I see no need to wait until mid-afternoon to start on the wine.

[XFool]

Surely, on an investment website, there will be as many investment oriented posts as people choose to make? If they make them they will be there, if they don't, they won't be.

Why do some people concern themselves so much with other people's posts?

Well the simple answer to that is if not, one is talking/writing to oneself? I need to add a ? because that seems so very obvious. What is it that you actually mean?

If you forgive me for saying so, that seems a rather pointless response. (I was aware in my post that it could be open to misinterpretation by some - but do we really need to be so legalistic in our posts?)

What I (obviously) meant was:

1. There will be as many investment/financial posts as people themselves choose to make - regardless of what any other subjects are discussed
(i.e. Why should somebody posting about COVID-19 stop another posting about their portfolio?)

2. Why do some people spend so much time moaning about the subjects other posters post about?
(i.e. Why are they even interested - if they are not interested?)

[swill453]

2. Why do some people spend so much time moaning about the subjects other posters post about?
(i.e. Why are they even interested - if they are not interested?)

I think the last time this sort of thing came up, it turned out that some people were basically reading all new posts, without any filtering, and (surprise, surprise) found they were having to trawl through subjects that didn't interest them.

Given that the board software provides some relatively sophisticated ways of only being presented with vaguely relevant posts, maybe the solution lies elsewhere.

Scott.

[dealtn]

2. Why do some people spend so much time moaning about the subjects other posters post about?
(i.e. Why are they even interested - if they are not interested?)

I think the last time this sort of thing came up, it turned out that some people were basically reading all new posts, without any filtering, and (surprise, surprise) found they were having to trawl through subjects that didn't interest them.

Given that the board software provides some relatively sophisticated ways of only being presented with vaguely relevant posts, maybe the solution lies elsewhere.

Scott.

A shame the software isn't sophisticated enough to recognise off-topic, and political posts, occurring in Investment and other Boards though.

That's life though, I guess. Pity that some behaviours affect the wider community in a detrimental way - sounds familiar to many discussions over the last year or so!

Changing the ratio of investment/non-investment posts can occur in 2 ways. I think the point the OP was making, was that fewer investment posts are occurring, as well as perhaps more non-investment ones. It is the former that I see as a more worrying trend, particularly on a site tagged "Shares, Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forums". As you rightly say there are ways to filter out the less relevant (to you) boards and threads. Encouraging a thriving Financial community willing to engage in discussion appears to be an issue and the decline - if true - should be of concern to the site owners, in the same way it would be on a Gardening or Music forum.

I have no evidence, or inclination to look for any, but are we losing past regular contributors? Are those that remain contributing less? If I were running a business (and I accept this isn't one in the traditional sense) I would be analysing how my existing customers were feeling about my brand, as much as how I was attracting new ones etc.

[SteMiS]

Haven't you had this discussion before? TLF doesn't really have a significant (criticial) mass in the world of investment discussion. Like it or lump it, it is what it is. I've posted a few times on investment stuff but, outside the HY cult and ITs there's really not much chat. If I want a discussion on shares I can go to Advfn (where I post under the same handle as on Lemonfool), twitter (where I post under my real name) or even London South East. I don't feel an obligation to try and start a chat in a corner of the internet where I won't get much of a response. My comment on SLP, made nearly 5 months ago, remains the last comment on the share. Since that date there has been 995 posts on Advfn (about 7 a day).

Could the problem be the descriptor "Shares, Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forums" under The Lemon Fool ? Maybe it should be changed to "A place to where some folk from Motley Fool fled after their discussion boards were closed". Then some wouldn't get so agitated about what other people post about.

At the end of the day the site is about whatever its owners want it to be about. If they don't want non investment/finance chat, they can close the non investment/finance boards. I wouldn't give the site very long but if that's what they want.... Can't imagine it would do much for their advertising revenue. However there's something rather ironic however about regulars on a non investment related area of TLF, with the one of the highest levels of traffic, complaining about non investment chat. Maybe they should close Beerpig's Snug; that would certainly reduce the level of 'non investment' chat...lol

[Itsallaguess]

However there's something rather ironic however about regulars on a non investment related area of TLF, with the one of the highest levels of traffic, complaining about non investment chat.

Maybe they should close Beerpig's Snug; that would certainly reduce the level of 'non investment' chat...

I think this gets back to the heart of what kiloran was saying though Stemis, in that there's a sense of 'community' here that's upheld and encouraged in many of the investment and non-investment areas of the site, such as Beerpig's Snug, and then there's a huge level of negativity that takes much away from that sense of 'community' in other, much more aggressive and argumentative areas of the site.

I think at the heart of Dod's opening post, there's a sense that the broader community is worse off, both for those of us who currently enjoy it, and also for those that might be encouraged to join it, if the aggressive arguments continue to share a large and growing part of the discussion bandwidth...

I don't expect you to agree with the above, as I've never had the impression that you appreciate the community aspect of these boards in the slightest, but please understand that many of us do...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Dod101]

As the one who opened this thread, I simply regret that there are few serious discussions about investments (other than about HYP of course, but often they can hardly be described as very serious. See for instance the thread on Tate and Lyle, mostly people fussing about how they will record the proposed share consolidation!))

What others post on other topics is up to them but in recent months we seem to have had a preponderance of non investment topics. That is of course entirely up to the owners of the site and I am not criticising them.

Dod

[TheMotorcycleBoy]

Haven't you had this discussion before? TLF doesn't really have a significant (criticial) mass in the world of investment discussion. Like it or lump it, it is what it is. I've posted a few times on investment stuff but, outside the HY cult and ITs there's really not much chat. If I want a discussion on shares I can go to Advfn (where I post under the same handle as on Lemonfool), twitter (where I post under my real name) or even London South East. I don't feel an obligation to try and start a chat in a corner of the internet where I won't get much of a response. My comment on SLP, made nearly 5 months ago, remains the last comment on the share. Since that date there has been 995 posts on Advfn (about 7 a day).

Could the problem be the descriptor "Shares, Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forums" under The Lemon Fool ? Maybe it should be changed to "A place to where some folk from Motley Fool fled after their discussion boards were closed". Then some wouldn't get so agitated about what other people post about.

At the end of the day the site is about whatever its owners want it to be about. If they don't want non investment/finance chat, they can close the non investment/finance boards. I wouldn't give the site very long but if that's what they want.... Can't imagine it would do much for their advertising revenue. However there's something rather ironic however about regulars on a non investment related area of TLF, with the one of the highest levels of traffic, complaining about non investment chat. Maybe they should close Beerpig's Snug; that would certainly reduce the level of 'non investment' chat...lol

I think this true, and very sad. A real shame. I've looked (and posted once or twice) on ADVFN, but I find the layout of the site pretty ghastly, and the forum tools (e.g. even copying text) really poor. The layout on TLF (in my view) is much cleaner and it's much easier to navigate.

I've recently posted on both NVIDIA and MODERNA on Company Analysis, and very few people are interested in joining it seems, despite both of those two being very prominent companies in our current time.

I'm now of the view that very focussed boards, with tight posting guidelines could well be part of the problem. For instance I've commented a couple of times in response to RNSs etc. in the HYP etc. boards, but then very quickly withdrawn, for fear of moderation, and worries of "being off-topic". Yes, people will suggest, "trying replying in a new thread on the XYZ board" instead, but that's not really the same, the momentum is lost, and depending on the choice of boards the audience has changed. What I'm trying to say is that the narrowness of the various boards makes people 1) wonder where to post 2) constrains interesting diversions in topic which maybe distracting but maintain the debate.

The conversation (face2face or virtual) in my opinion is a precious thing, and if we want this place to flourish, then maintaining it in a vibrant form seems to be fundamental.

Matt

[SteMiS]

However there's something rather ironic however about regulars on a non investment related area of TLF, with the one of the highest levels of traffic, complaining about non investment chat.

Maybe they should close Beerpig's Snug; that would certainly reduce the level of 'non investment' chat...

I think this gets back to the heart of what kiloran was saying though Stemis, in that there's a sense of 'community' here that's upheld and encouraged in many of the investment and non-investment areas of the site, such as Beerpig's Snug, and then there's a huge level of negativity that takes much away from that sense of 'community' in other, much more aggressive and argumentative areas of the site.

I think at the heart of Dod's opening post, there's a sense that the broader community is worse off, both for those of us who currently enjoy it, and also for those that might be encouraged to join it, if the aggressive arguments continue to share a large and growing part of the discussion bandwidth...

I don't expect you to agree with the above, as I've never had the impression that you appreciate the community aspect of these boards in the slightest, but please understand that many of us do...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Well you've chopped off most of my post that pretty much agreed with Kiloran (who didn't seem to have a problem with the non financial boards). My comment about Beerpig's Snug wasn't that it should really be closed but that it's a prime example of TLF not being principally an investment/finance site.

I do understand the community aspect of TLF, which is why I rarely post in Beerpig's Snug. Sometimes it feels like one of those little country pubs where the regulars turn and stare as you walk in and there's a background tutting about the teenagers making a noise in the church hall disco. Occasionally someone goes over and asks if they can keep the noise down (even though one or two of them have been known to slip over for a shifty dance now and again).

[XFool]

As the one who opened this thread, I simply regret that there are few serious discussions about investments (other than about HYP of course, but often they can hardly be described as very serious. See for instance the thread on Tate and Lyle, mostly people fussing about how they will record the proposed share consolidation!))

So that is presumably, a financially related discussion? But apparently the wrong kind of financial discussion...

As somebody once said: "...you can't please all of the people all of the time."


XFool has no financial interests in Tate & Lyle

[XFool]

On a more serious(?) note, relating to "general discussions", one problem I have noticed is an apparently different interpretation differing people put on the nature of other people's posts and motivations for posting. Possibly no solution to this?

[88V8]

...if we want this place to flourish, then maintaining it in a vibrant form seems to be fundamental.

I agree. But... most of the vibrating on ADVFN and LSE... I hardly post on either... seems to come from traders rather than investors. And most of it is just noise.

Where else can one find the breadth of investment boards we have here... but I do agree with Dod, not much actual discussion.

And I am as guilty as any, I hardly ever start threads... despite having quite a large portfolio I don't honestly feel that I have much specialist knowledge... and I spend/waste time in diverting but largely pointless debates on CAN and Beerpig.

I do think that Dod's practice of reading all new posts on the Lemon is potentially a suboptimal use of time, but each to their own......
All I read is the boards that interest me.

I also agree that the navel-gazing fuss over where one should post and what is o/t on particular boards does not conduce to wider involvement. For example, despite being retired, I find nothing of particular interest on the Retirement board that is not amply catered for on other boards, and will be interested to see whether the recent discussions make any difference.

Perhaps there are just too many boards relative to the number of active posters.

All of which does not really move things forward.

V8

[Alaric]

I am at a loss to understand why someone would do that. It would be like me going to a gardening website and criticising gardening.

Back in the TMF days, it was possible to get the impression that some posters to the TMF LOST board were acting as spokespeople for New Labour, defending everything the then Government did regardless of its merits. In more recent times this spilled over into a defence of the European Union and the UK's membership of it. Such were the number of posts that it could be wondered whether it was a team effort. Now that TLF have hidden the "Polite Discussions" board, some posting names have gone from quite a number to zero.

[AsleepInYorkshire]

On a more serious(?) note, relating to "general discussions", one problem I have noticed is an apparently different interpretation differing people put on the nature of other people's posts and motivations for posting. Possibly no solution to this?

I've found this to be an issue to. As I've mentioned earlier in this thread there is, in my opinion, a large amount of discussion around semantics and euphemisms. Followed by negativity. Argument for arguments sake? However, as I've already said I am no angel.

A recent thread in support of England was actually quite enjoyable. I was simply able to post and not find my posts interrogated, interpolated or misunderstood. There was a lot of tongue in cheek humour and none of it was anything else other than respectful mockery.

Very much tongue in cheek but I wonder if CAN should be renamed "Groundhog Day".

Anyways this won't get the baby a new bonnet.

AiY

[bluedonkey]

OK, time's up now.

[SteMiS]

I think this true, and very sad. A real shame. I've looked (and posted once or twice) on ADVFN, but I find the layout of the site pretty ghastly, and the forum tools (e.g. even copying text) really poor. The layout on TLF (in my view) is much cleaner and it's much easier to navigate.

I agree about layout. Advfn has plenty of problems and some of the boards are just unreadable. It's quite possible to log on in the morning to find 100 posts waiting for you on some popular shares, of which 95 have no relevant content. But at least there is traffic...

I've recently posted on both NVIDIA and MODERNA on Company Analysis, and very few people are interested in joining it seems, despite both of those two being very prominent companies in our current time.

Yes, I've checked out your posts on Nvidia and Moderna. Stirling effort. It must have taken you some time to construct them. For what return? You are really wasting your time. Fool.com, stocktwits.com, or reddit.com or are probably better (I haven't checked specifically for those stocks)

[richfool]

Surely, if a board is named as focusing on financial/Investment matters, one would expect the majority of the discussions would be about financial/investment matters, not about everything else but that.

To use the analogy of a gardening forum, mentioned earlier, I wouldn't expect to go to a gardening forum and discuss motorbikes or politics. Yet on LF that seems to be the case. I came to LF, as I came to TMF before it, specifically for material about investment matters, and it gets disappointing that so much material now seems to be about everything else, but investment matters. If I wanted to discuss politics, I would go to a politics focused forum. Because of my focus on investment trusts, I have more recently dabbled on the Citywire forum.

[Mike4]

Surely, if a board is named as focusing on financial/Investment matters, one would expect the majority of the discussions would be about financial/investment matters, not about everything else but that.

To use the analogy of a gardening forum, mentioned earlier, I wouldn't expect to go to a gardening forum and discuss motorbikes or politics. Yet on LF that seems to be the case. I came to LF, as I came to TMF before it, specifically for material about investment matters, and it gets disappointing that so much material now seems to be about everything else, but investment matters. If I wanted to discuss politics, I would go to a politics focused forum. Because of my focus on investment trusts, I have more recently dabbled on the Citywire forum.

All very trite. In the real world of discussion forums, people who discuss their specialist subject together on a specialist board tend to like to discuss other stuff together with the people they feel they know on that same board.

Its a well known phenomenon. To give some examples other than TLF, there was the obvious one of TMF. I take part in "The Combustion Chamber" (for gas engineers) where probably only one third of the posts are about gas technology. Then there is Canal World Forum where again, barely 50% of the content has anything to do with canals. Piston Heads (notionally about cars and driving) also has a thriving set of boards nothing to do with motoring, and I bet if you looked up say the leading photography and gardening forums the same would apply.

Bottom line is, once people with a common interest gather together in a pub or on a forum, you can't stop them discussing other stuff. If you try, you will fail.

[XFool]

And I am as guilty as any, I hardly ever start threads... despite having quite a large portfolio I don't honestly feel that I have much specialist knowledge...

Now this is very definitely a thing!

I have no experience of financial or investment matters from my past life (home, education, work), whereas many on TLF do. They are more qualified to comment and give interesting comment on such matters than myself. When it comes to investing philosophy I have to confess that I don't seem to have one, or rather it changes with the financial winds and the passing of time. I can only describe myself as having a general tendency towards: 'Less is More'. But that isn't going to generate lots of exciting, day by day, comment and analysis, is it?

As an exemplar, take the Premium Bonds thread. Many people simply post, month after month, how much they have won - or not won! I don't bother with that as I can't see the point, unless something unusual or interesting happens. But I have posted there, usually around changes to NS&I conditions or to give simple replies to comments or questions on the nature of the draw, winnings etc.
[And even THAT led to stringent criticism from a 'formerly well known poster' - you can't win can you ]

There are some interesting technical matters relating to PBs (Gengulphus posted a mathematical analysis on the old TMF), but only if your maths is up to the job, I am far from sure mine is apart from a basic summary. The general point is, in relation to many financial matters, what is there new to say?

Once it's been said, it's (largely) been said.