Returning to restaurants

[Leothebear]

I have no problem making a complaint. However I tend to make it quietly and politely. I'll go to the waiter and ensure nobody else is within earshot.
I'll probably start with "I'm sorry but I cannot eat this ...." .

Never had a complaint badly received and have been refunded where necessary.

[Mike4]

A well run restaurant would have given plenty of opportunity to raise any concerns you are having during service.

For me, this can ruin a restaurant visit.

It irritates me beyond all reason repeatedly to be interrupted mid-mouthful and/or mid conversation by one staff member or another approaching the table every five minutes throughout a meal simply to ask "Is everything alright?"

Well yes, except for the constant interruptions thank you!

[nimnarb]

Is this restaurant in London? Name?

[nimnarb]

Was in Kerridge's bar and grill for Sunday lunch yesterday and although the meal was good(so it should be for the price) I did comment(sweetest Oliver impression)when I saw the size of the beef, “do I get seconds? Server looked stunned and smirked and said she would check on me later, never saw her again. Now if she had said of course, In my estimation it would have gone from good to great if ever I gave a review. Never complain, just put it down to life experiences, unless it’s totally inedible.
Love good food though.

[Mike4]

Was in Kerridge's bar and grill for Sunday lunch yesterday and although the meal was good(so it should be for the price) I did comment(sweetest Oliver impression)when I saw the size of the beef, “do I get seconds? Server looked stunned and smirked and said she would check on me later, never saw her again. Now if she had said of course, In my estimation it would have gone from good to great if ever I gave a review. Never complain, just put it down to life experiences, unless it’s totally inedible.
Love good food though.

Lol, this is my philosophy too.

Once, I was served an inedibly tough steak. SO tough I could not even successfully chew up the few bits of it I managed to cut off. My companion's steak was the same so with mild trepidation we called a waitress over to tell here this. She declared how sorry she was then offhandedly commented she was not surprised we were returning the steaks, as everybody else ordering steak so far that evening had done the same...

I was almost moved the write a letter!

[Rhyd6]

We're in the last week of our stay in Cornwall and not being a regular user of Trip Advisor I was fooled into thinking that high praise and recommendations were made on the quality of the food - I was wrong it has become apparent that what counts is quantity not quality. We almost gave up on dining out when our first three highly rated eateries were awful and everything was served with frozen chips which both OH and I hate with a passion. Luckily we found a small pub which served delicious, well cooked food. Nothing fancy but fish that was served without a coating of half cooked batter, no chips but delicious new potatoes. We complimented the owner whose wife was the chef and he in turn gave us several more recommendations so we've managed to have some lovely food. We booked into one place where there was a set cover charge of £40 and I'm sure that in London you could have doubled the price and diners would have been happy to pay it. We've eaten there four times and our last meal in Cornwall will be there, it's already booked. Unfortunately not all diners were satisfied, one woman complained that she'd had two starters and a dessert and couldn't see why she should have to pay £40 for this because the starters were not as big as a main course. She was complaining in an extremely loud voice to the waitress when a fellow, probably a local judging from the accent, came over from another table and called the woman out for being a bully, the woman started on him but he just looked at her husband and in a very loud voice offered him his condolences for having married such a harridan. Everyone clapped and the woman scurried out as fast as she could followed by her smirking husband who'd not uttered a single word.

R6

[Lootman]

A well run restaurant would have given plenty of opportunity to raise any concerns you are having during service.

For me, this can ruin a restaurant visit.

It irritates me beyond all reason repeatedly to be interrupted mid-mouthful and/or mid conversation by one staff member or another approaching the table every five minutes throughout a meal simply to ask "Is everything alright?"

Well yes, except for the constant interruptions thank you!

As you might expect, restaurants have a policy regarding those so-called "courtesy checks". Where my son works they do it once and once only, during the main course. This is precisely to ensure you are not pestered unduly whilst eating. So if it is happening excessively it may be that individual server trying too hard.

This is to give you an opportunity to say if something is wrong without having to get up and hunt down the server, which of course you can also do at any time.

My pet peeve when dining out in England is trying to get the bill at the end. Once you order or decline dessert then, in my view, the bill should arrive. That is the standard in the US, allowing you to leave quickly or linger, as you wish. Sometimes in the UK I have to get up and ask for the bill, which is annoying.

[redsturgeon]

Was in Kerridge's bar and grill for Sunday lunch yesterday and although the meal was good(so it should be for the price) I did comment(sweetest Oliver impression)when I saw the size of the beef, “do I get seconds? Server looked stunned and smirked and said she would check on me later, never saw her again. Now if she had said of course, In my estimation it would have gone from good to great if ever I gave a review. Never complain, just put it down to life experiences, unless it’s totally inedible.
Love good food though.

Reminds me of a meal in a German hotel restaurant, we ordered the lamb chops and they specified on the menu a standard or large portion. We ordered large! When our meals came with three decent sized chops we we well pleased. We ate them and they were very good.

To our surprise, when we had finished, the waitress brought the same again. "There must be some mistake", we said, "we have already eaten".

"But you ordered the large", was the response (In German but my German is not good.)

John

[didds]

... in a pub in Cornwall last week (Logans Rock Inn, Porthcurno area) where I had the grilled mackerel. Very nice. Waiter appeared after a few minutes apologising for the size of the mackerel as they were quite small (i hadnt queried it etc) and gave me a third fillet .

I noticed the table behind us as we left had three fillets served when it arrived.

Kudos.

Decent pint of Proper Job too.

[terminal7]

Let's get back to my original point as summed up by others - should we cut restaurants some slack because of the financial pressures they have faced over the last 18 months and hence refrain from posting negative reviews?

Incident 1 - took place about 4 weeks ago when visiting Beaune in Burgundy on a short tour of the vineyards. Booked at unpretentious family run bistro on outskirts of Beaune - evening meal. Husband in the kitchen wife (Madame) out front. Ordered the fixed price dinner - about 35 euros. Also ordered sparkling water and glass of house red for the OH - I decided not to drink as had not always 'spat out' during tastings that day and was driving (back to hotel). The OH also took a kir and drank this with the first course. All good at this stage - we were served by the only waitress - the wife was serving other tables. My wife had a sip of the wine and immediately said to me that it was awful. I took a sip and concurred that it was either corked or had been opened some considerable time. Whist this was happening we were served with the main course. We immediately informed the waitress that the wine was 'off' and could it be replaced. The waitress said that she would have to inform Madame. A few minutes later the waitress came back and said that Madame said that there was nothing wrong with the wine. This repeated itself - with the same outcome. My wife emphasised that she was not going to eat her second course without an accompanying glass of wine. The poor waitress shuttled back and for - Madame did not deign to actually come to our table. In the end after some more kerfuffle we walked out having left 25 euros on the table to cover the kir/water/first course. On the way out Madame shouted at us - not clear what she said. FYO - my OH is French and only French was spoken. In normal circumstances I would have put up a review but we decided that the owners probably had experienced very difficult times and decided to refrain.

Incident 2 - fairly pricey Italian NW London. We knew it was fairly expensive and that it had a mix of good reviews speckled with the occasional very negative review. After olives and a prosecco - we had our main course. The OH had linguine all'astice - £28 - we needed a search party to find the lobster. However the taste was good and my tagliatelle with beef shin ragout was fine. I then ordered tiramisu. What arrived were 2 layers of 2 sponge fingers coated in cream and cocoa powder. There were bits of chocolate that tasted like Cadburys' buttons and it just tasted of dry sponge and whipped cream. It actually looked like that it had been prepared either very early in the day or had been brought from an outside supplier. Usual pressures because there we were just wanting a 'nice' meal without any confrontation. So I decided that we should just go to the desk to speak to the manager - pay and leave. Failed to have the 'balls' to mention that the search party had not returned but detailed my misgivings with the dessert. I was then staggered that the manager agreed with me and said that they had been thinking of taking that dessert off the menu. I really failed to comprehend what he was intimating. At this stage the OH started to get very annoyed and the manager quickly gave us the bill. There was no deduction - no apology. Frankly I had enough at this stage - paid the bill and meekly left. We have been ruminating about whether to post a review.

T7

[88V8]

Let's get back to my original point as summed up by others - should we cut restaurants some slack because of the financial pressures they have faced over the last 18 months and hence refrain from posting negative reviews?
....we needed a search party to find the lobster....

I would have thought that ingredients must be a minor part of the restaurant's costs, so it seems foolish to cut portion sizes in such a noticeable manner.

In the not-so-good Italian I mentioned above, we too had dry tiramisu.

I suspect there is an awful lot of buying-in. Our local pub does an excellent Sunday roast, but virtually everything else is bought in. That's how one chef - the owner - does 400+ covers a week with one of those alarmingly large menus. They also overcook the veg something rotten, but one gets such a pile and variety of veg that there is no room for it on the plate, especially as every hot meal of any description is accompanied by a Yorkshire, also bought in ... and in consequence I am sure of the quantity, they get excellent reviews.
In terms of Tripadvisor, quantity is indeed a quality.

One factor that may determine whether one leaves a negative review... whether you intend to go back. They will after all have a good idea who left it. If you don't, well you can let rip.
If one wishes to be fair, and I think one should, also comment on the good aspects.

I think I would review both your examples. It is a matter of how acerbic you wish to be, and now you have had a chance to cool down, perhaps it is easier to write in a more balanced manner.

V8

[Lootman]

I would have thought that ingredients must be a minor part of the restaurant's costs, so it seems foolish to cut portion sizes in such a noticeable manner.

It depends. In terms of the ingredient costs some menu items are far more profitable than others.

For instance if you have ever wondered why there are so many pizza joints on any High Street it is because the markup on them is enormous. The ingredients in a typical pizza cost less than 10% of what it sells for.

On the other hand a steak carries a much lower margin. If you go to a restaurant and order a plain steak, a glass of tap water and nothing else, they won't like you very much.

Again, the markup on starters, desserts and beverages is typically greater than on main courses. I feel sure you have noticed that ten quid bottle of wine being sold in a restaurant for thirty quid. Nice work if you can get it.

[AF62]

My pet peeve when dining out in England is trying to get the bill at the end.

One approach to this problem - https://youtu.be/jODoOpxh1l4?t=68

[Arborbridge]

I feel sure you have noticed that ten quid bottle of wine being sold in a restaurant for thirty quid. Nice work if you can get it.

Not from me, they don't

[AF62]

I feel sure you have noticed that ten quid bottle of wine being sold in a restaurant for thirty quid.

You are being generous that it cost £10. More likely £4.99 at most.

[didds]

The argument for large mark ups for booze is that subsidises the food - and the menu food price is the shop window, not the booze...

Of course, if

* booze was sold at the same mark up as food
* all food was sold at the same mark up
* tips and service charge were done away with but all prices reflected a genuine wage for staff

Then your £25 steak may actally be £40, your eton mess £3.20 and the soup of the day £2.80. The wine would be £15 a a bottle.

But then we as consumers must also adjust to price expectations, and not reject a place becasue its steak is £40, or turn up and just order soup and eton mess and 6 bottles of wine, but enjoy the service & ambience.

didds

[DiamondEcho]

And there is one other factor. The US IRS taxes wait staff on presumed tips. That number is derived by taking a percentage of the average revenue at that establishment. So that waiter was probably going to have to pay tax as if you had tipped 15% or 20%, which might also help to explain her ire.

Thanks for the explanation. I find it difficult to get my head around some of these cultural differences but I guess there very existence makes one blind to them when at home as they are "norms". It looks like wages are the problem but I guess it's unlikely that it seams normal to those that live there and is therefore unlikely to change dramatically.

What I like about US wait-staff is that at the better places their job is their career and they're very very good at it, and usually worth a good tip. Then by contrast in other countries you have plate-carriers who expect to garnish an additional 10-20% of your spend as outright profit for the establishment.

As Lootman describes, under or non-tipping US wait-staff can be fraught. The IRS knows a restaurants turn-over and will estimate what the wait-staff earn at '15-20%' based upon that + their wages. Then, the IRS will tax them on that, ie if the staff have declared lower earnings they're assumed to be on the fiddle.

Hence there is the argument that under-tipping actually costs the wait-staff money. And that's why uner-tipping bad US wait-staff can cause hostility (I have heard). At this point I stare into the distance in a blur and remember Japan fondly, where waiting is considered a most honourable calling to be done with pride. Fulfilling ones role being the start and end of being honourable. And this is where to a westerner it seems backwards. Tipping is usually an insult*. 'A person here for 90 minutes, rewarding [condescending to] me for doing my career job' that I've done for whole life and do with pride'.

* Sadly it's catching on in places frequented by westerners.

[Dod101]

Was in Kerridge's bar and grill for Sunday lunch yesterday and although the meal was good(so it should be for the price) I did comment(sweetest Oliver impression)when I saw the size of the beef, “do I get seconds? Server looked stunned and smirked and said she would check on me later, never saw her again. Now if she had said of course, In my estimation it would have gone from good to great if ever I gave a review. Never complain, just put it down to life experiences, unless it’s totally inedible.
Love good food though.

Reminds me of a meal in a German hotel restaurant, we ordered the lamb chops and they specified on the menu a standard or large portion. We ordered large! When our meals came with three decent sized chops we we well pleased. We ate them and they were very good.

To our surprise, when we had finished, the waitress brought the same again. "There must be some mistake", we said, "we have already eaten".

"But you ordered the large", was the response (In German but my German is not good.)

John

I had forgotten but that happened to me when I was taken out by a Swiss business contact in Zurich. A great restaurant but so much food, not as in the US of A, but in the form of seconds!

Dod

[brightncheerful]

It is suggested that for poor quality food go to a tourist restaurant.
And for overpriced poor quality food go to a tourist restaurant with a view.