Winter Fuel Payment

[scrumpyjack]

The trouble with making it taxable is all the extra admin for HMRC. Generally HMG try to arrange allowances etc so that most people do not need to complete a tax return and most tax is deducted at source and the tax paid is automatically correct. That is why you can no longer make a charitable donation gross but have to use the system where you pay it net of basic rate tax and the charity claims it back from HMRC. It is also why there is a tax free dividend and interest allowance. That avoids a LOT of people having to submit returns. Faffing around with tax on the winter fuel allowance is not worth it! So abolish it and hand out free jerseys with a picture of a smiling Rishi on it!

[Mike4]

Its on a apr with the (previous) over 75 free TV licence stupidity.
didds

Ooh now there's an idea, I'll use mine to treat myself to a TV License and dust off the old telly. That'll be pleasingly circular!

I got a letter the other day telling me I'll be getting the WFP and my initial reaction on reading this was 'WTF?" Then I remembered it's not means tested and we all get it. Isn't this because means testing costs more than it would save, with this particular benefit?

[XFool]

Generally HMG try to arrange allowances etc so that most people do not need to complete a tax return and most tax is deducted at source and the tax paid is automatically correct.

Uh? Well HMG used to do that, until the 2013 budget. I suppose "most people" is a pretty flexible number. It used to mean most people not on higher rate income tax or self employed.

[Watis]

- pensioners who fall into the higher tax bracket get £150 after tax, recognising their reduced need for the payment.
Watis

if they are in the higher tax bracket they don't need £150 for winter fuel - no more than anybody not in the higher tax bracket anyway.

didds

You're correct of course. My solution aimed to partially recognise this whilst being simple to administer from the taxation perspective.

Watis

[scotia]

And think of the horrors of implementing taxation on the fuel and Christmas payments in Scotland, with our multiple tax rates (19%, 20%, 21%, 41%, 46%) and different tax band levels. Presumably, since it is a UK government payment, it would have to be taxed at the English rate and at English tax band levels.
No - the current policy is definitely the cheapest and simplest way of handing out the cash - and no government seems able to suffer the odium of abolishing it.
The present government thought up a sneaky way of removing the free TV licence for the over 75s - they simply said that it was the BBC's task.
I wonder who they could pin the blame on for the removal of the fuel and Christmas payments?

[88V8]

I don't see the problem with completely removing it from higher-rate tax payers, including me. I'm sure that could be automated.

V8

[tjh290633]

And think of the horrors of implementing taxation on the fuel and Christmas payments in Scotland, with our multiple tax rates (19%, 20%, 21%, 41%, 46%) and different tax band levels.

Would they not just adjust your personal allowance, as they do already for the State Pension?

Simplest just to make it all part of the regular payments. Or even increase the pension by the appropriate amount, for under-80s and over-80s. Don't forget that two pensioners living together get half each anyway. My wife does not pay tax, for example.

TJH

[Dod101]

I don't see the problem with completely removing it from higher-rate tax payers, including me. I'm sure that could be automated.

V8

If you are a higher rate taxpayer, you obviously have too much money. I am almost a nil rate taxpayer and am not in the least poor.

Dod

[servodude]

I don't see the problem with completely removing it from higher-rate tax payers, including me. I'm sure that could be automated.

V8

If you are a higher rate taxpayer, you obviously have too much money. I am almost a nil rate taxpayer and am not in the least poor.

Dod

Don't tell me they've finally started taxing folk on wealth on not income?
Whatever next??

[Lootman]

I suggested that it should be taxable earlier in this thread. Definitely abolish the £10 Christmas Bonus. Now that is just stupid. It must cost more to distribute it than t is worth.

Presumably the government considers it is too much faff to bother taxing it, especially given that many pensioners pay little or no tax anyway.

I don't see why people feel so strongly about taxing such a trivial sum. Why does it really matter?

[Dod101]

I suggested that it should be taxable earlier in this thread. Definitely abolish the £10 Christmas Bonus. Now that is just stupid. It must cost more to distribute it than t is worth.

Presumably the government considers it is too much faff to bother taxing it, especially given that many pensioners pay little or no tax anyway.

I don't see why people feel so strongly about taxing such a trivial sum. Why does it really matter?

In itself it makes little difference I agree. It is just the principle.

Dod

[swill453]

In itself it makes little difference I agree. It is just the principle.

If the status quo is the most cost effective way of getting a meaningful sum of money to those who actually need it then to hell with the principle.

Scott.

[Dod101]

In itself it makes little difference I agree. It is just the principle.

If the status quo is the most cost effective way of getting a meaningful sum of money to those who actually need it then to hell with the principle.

Scott.

That is basically what I said but the point (which will get us nowhere) is that it is also going to those who do not need it and unlike the State Pension, untaxed at that. I have given mine to a charity.

Dod

[didds]

I don't see why people feel so strongly about taxing such a trivial sum. Why does it really matter?

I guess if its so trivial, everybody shoud get it. As its trivial.

didds

[scrumpyjack]

I don't see why people feel so strongly about taxing such a trivial sum. Why does it really matter?

I guess if its so trivial, everybody shoud get it. As its trivial.

didds

Nah, after COP26 we should be trying to use less fuel so paying a winter fuel allowance is crazy - stop it!

[XFool]

I don't see why people feel so strongly about taxing such a trivial sum. Why does it really matter?

I guess if its so trivial, everybody shoud get it. As its trivial.

Nah, after COP26 we should be trying to use less fuel so paying a winter fuel allowance is crazy - stop it!

OK. Then we need it to purchase our thermal underwear.

[Wuzwine]

Hi,

Abolishing the £200 and now the £10 Xmas bonus! They should be taxable

You lot will have the 25p upgrade, for those over 80, abolished if I ever make it that long. At least that is taxable.

Just looked it up, it started in 1971 at 25p but was abolished for new pensioners after April 2016!! So I can relax and have plenty of time to think how I will spend it.


Wuz

[CliffEdge]

It should be increased to £500 and the Xmas bonus to £100, and paid to individuals not halved for couples.

Then you could really get peed off about those who mostly won't be here for much longer having a few extras in the winter. Shame on you. Hope you never get old.

[servodude]

It should be increased to £500 and the Xmas bonus to £100, and paid to individuals not halved for couples.

Then you could really get peed off about those who mostly won't be here for much longer having a few extras in the winter. Shame on you. Hope you never get old.

Think this stuff is bad? You should have heard them when it was our elders dying of COVID

-sd

[Dod101]

It should be increased to £500 and the Xmas bonus to £100, and paid to individuals not halved for couples.

Then you could really get peed off about those who mostly won't be here for much longer having a few extras in the winter. Shame on you. Hope you never get old.

I am one of those in the older end of the spectrum. I, like many of my contemporaries, do not need the WFP or the Christmas Bonus. I am sure plenty of my age welcome it and some probably need it. It is all though a matter of degree. I concluded that our local food bank did not need the support and so have given it to Myeloma UK, a very worthwhile medical charity.

Dod