Winter Fuel Payment

[XFool]

Think this stuff is bad? You should have heard them when it was our elders dying of COVID

#BoomerRemover?

[terminal7]

I would not need to pay tax on the WFP anyway as it is paid directly into my BVI offshore account (Help the Needy PM Inc) and then helps pay some of the exorbitant air conditioning costs incurred by my villa in Marbella.

T7

[gryffron]

It should be increased to £500 and the Xmas bonus to £100, and paid to individuals not halved for couples.
Then you could really get peed off about those who mostly won't be here for much longer having a few extras in the winter. Shame on you. Hope you never get old.

The issue is not "is this worthwhile?" The issue for both individuals and governments is "is this the MOST worthwhile?"

For myself, there are thousands of charities I consider worthy. But I can't support all of them, I only choose to support a handful. Same for government. They can't support ALL worthy causes.

Is your suggestion the best way of spending taxpayers money. Personally I doubt it, since there are plenty who do not need the extra cash.

Gryff

[SteMiS]

It should be increased to £500 and the Xmas bonus to £100, and paid to individuals not halved for couples.

Then you could really get peed off about those who mostly won't be here for much longer having a few extras in the winter. Shame on you. Hope you never get old.

Some of those getting it manage to get a bit more than a few extras. Why should a wealthy pensioner get 'help with their heating' when a poor parent (struggling to bring up their children, having seen their £20/week benefit uplift taken from them at the same time as their heating bills soar through the roof) doesn't ?

I'm sure I will get old and I'm sure I'll feel the same...

[Lootman]

It should be increased to £500 and the Xmas bonus to £100, and paid to individuals not halved for couples.

Then you could really get peed off about those who mostly won't be here for much longer having a few extras in the winter. Shame on you. Hope you never get old.

Some of those getting it manage to get a bit more than a few extras. Why should a wealthy pensioner get 'help with their heating' when a poor parent (struggling to bring up their children, having seen their £20/week benefit uplift taken from them at the same time as their heating bills soar through the roof) doesn't ?
I'm sure I will get old and I'm sure I'll feel the same...

Or to ask a different question, why do you think better off people should get absolutely nothing from the government even though they pay the most taxes? Must success be punished relentlessly and unceasingly?

[richfool]

Why should a wealthy pensioner get 'help with their heating' when a poor parent (struggling to bring up their children, having seen their £20/week benefit uplift taken from them at the same time as their heating bills soar through the roof) doesn't ?

Maybe the pensioner is a "wealthy pensioner" because he/she prudently scrimped and saved for his/her old age, throughout his working life, including when he was young and struggling to bring up his/her children and coping with all the inflationary bills that went with that, and going without many of the pleasures in life at that time, in the hope that he/she would be able to enjoy them in his/her old age.

[UncleEbenezer]

Why should a wealthy pensioner get 'help with their heating' when a poor parent (struggling to bring up their children, having seen their £20/week benefit uplift taken from them at the same time as their heating bills soar through the roof) doesn't ?

Maybe the pensioner is a "wealthy pensioner" because he/she prudently scrimped and saved for his/her old age, throughout his working life, including when he was young and struggling to bring up his/her children and coping with all the inflationary bills that went with that, and going without many of the pleasures in life at that time, in the hope that he/she would be able to enjoy them in his/her old age.

I'm sure there's often an element of that.

But having paid vast taxes in my[1] youth for the benefit of people far better off than me doesn't make it right that today's hardworking younger generations suffer the same. Just how many wrongs make a right?

[1] Personalising it 'cos I've reached the time in life when the gross unfairness of raising NI yet further falls on someone else. The first time in my life I've been on the "right side" of some major unfairness.

[Nimrod103]

Why should a wealthy pensioner get 'help with their heating' when a poor parent (struggling to bring up their children, having seen their £20/week benefit uplift taken from them at the same time as their heating bills soar through the roof) doesn't ?

Maybe the pensioner is a "wealthy pensioner" because he/she prudently scrimped and saved for his/her old age, throughout his working life, including when he was young and struggling to bring up his/her children and coping with all the inflationary bills that went with that, and going without many of the pleasures in life at that time, in the hope that he/she would be able to enjoy them in his/her old age.

I'm sure there's often an element of that.

But having paid vast taxes in my[1] youth for the benefit of people far better off than me doesn't make it right that today's hardworking younger generations suffer the same. Just how many wrongs make a right?

[1] Personalising it 'cos I've reached the time in life when the gross unfairness of raising NI yet further falls on someone else. The first time in my life I've been on the "right side" of some major unfairness.

At the risk of veering off into Polite debate territory, surely those who are well off in retirement are likely to have been quite well off during their working lives as well, and thus paid a considerable amount of tax.
The real unfairness of which you are complaining seems to be about those who are receiving pensions (both State and occupational) at a level which bears no relationship to the meagre amount of money they put away during their working lives.

[Clitheroekid]

- pensioners who fall into the higher tax bracket get £150 after tax, recognising their reduced need for the payment.
Watis

if they are in the higher tax bracket they don't need £150 for winter fuel - no more than anybody not in the higher tax bracket anyway.

didds

Excuse me? You don't seem to realise that those of us in the higher tax bracket generally have large country houses that take a great deal more heating than some miserable hovel inhabited by the lower orders.

To be really fair the WFP should be based on the number of rooms in one's primary residence.

[UncleEbenezer]

- pensioners who fall into the higher tax bracket get £150 after tax, recognising their reduced need for the payment.
Watis

if they are in the higher tax bracket they don't need £150 for winter fuel - no more than anybody not in the higher tax bracket anyway.

didds

Excuse me? You don't seem to realise that those of us in the higher tax bracket generally have large country houses that take a great deal more heating than some miserable hovel inhabited by the lower orders.

To be really fair the WFP should be based on the number of rooms in one's primary residence.

Whereas those of us in the higher tax bracket can't afford any house at all, those taxes having pushed prices so far out of reach.

Is your comment based on the story (I have no idea if it was ever true) of the Queen being in so-called Fuel Poverty?

[bungeejumper]

Is your comment based on the story (I have no idea if it was ever true) of the Queen being in so-called Fuel Poverty?

The story sounds perfectly probable to me. It can get a bit draughty in the old council house, you know. All those spare bedrooms (130, apparently, plus 78 bathrooms), and only the occasional refugee from the dysfunctional end of the family turning up to stay in them. And no double glazing allowed in a historic building such as one's own. Damn those listed building inspectors.

Time was when one would simply have thrown a few more peasants onto the fire, but sadly those days seem to have vanished. Sigh, there's no fuel like an old fuel.....

BJ

[Lootman]

Is your comment based on the story (I have no idea if it was ever true) of the Queen being in so-called Fuel Poverty?

The story sounds perfectly probable to me. It can get a bit draughty in the old council house, you know. All those spare bedrooms (130, apparently, plus 78 bathrooms), and only the occasional refugee from the dysfunctional end of the family turning up to stay in them. And no double glazing allowed in a historic building such as one's own. Damn those listed building inspectors.

Time was when one would simply have thrown a few more peasants onto the fire, but sadly those days seem to have vanished. Sigh, there's no fuel like an old fuel.....

One jests of course but there is surely some truth to the theory that the reason why the National Trust owns so many of the stately homes of England is because punitive taxes, including inheritance tax, led to their owners being unable to heat and maintain the properties. And so the homes were gifted in lieu of death duties.

Just because someone has a high net worth does not necessarily mean that they have a lot of cash. Perhaps the WFP should be linked to square footage?

[SimonS]

And think of the horrors of implementing taxation on the fuel and Christmas payments in Scotland, with our multiple tax rates (19%, 20%, 21%, 41%, 46%) and different tax band levels. Presumably, since it is a UK government payment, it would have to be taxed at the English rate and at English tax band levels.
No - the current policy is definitely the cheapest and simplest way of handing out the cash - and no government seems able to suffer the odium of abolishing it.
The present government thought up a sneaky way of removing the free TV licence for the over 75s - they simply said that it was the BBC's task.
I wonder who they could pin the blame on for the removal of the fuel and Christmas payments?

The shortage of HGV drivers ?

Mind you, round here the sticky petrol prices (went up for the petrol panic, still there) means that HMG have had their extra £10 several times over, while some HGV drivers have reportedly seen a 40% pay rise, so HMG will be getting their slice of that too.

Being cynical, the Beeb raising £39 million in one night and Black Friday being forecast to top £9 billion in the UK alone proves that there's a lot of money washing around their " hard-up" public.

[Dod101]

And think of the horrors of implementing taxation on the fuel and Christmas payments in Scotland, with our multiple tax rates (19%, 20%, 21%, 41%, 46%) and different tax band levels. Presumably, since it is a UK government payment, it would have to be taxed at the English rate and at English tax band levels.
No - the current policy is definitely the cheapest and simplest way of handing out the cash - and no government seems able to suffer the odium of abolishing it.
The present government thought up a sneaky way of removing the free TV licence for the over 75s - they simply said that it was the BBC's task.
I wonder who they could pin the blame on for the removal of the fuel and Christmas payments?

The shortage of HGV drivers ?

Mind you, round here the sticky petrol prices (went up for the petrol panic, still there) means that HMG have had their extra £10 several times over, while some HGV drivers have reportedly seen a 40% pay rise, so HMG will be getting their slice of that too.

Being cynical, the Beeb raising £39 million in one night and Black Friday being forecast to top £9 billion in the UK alone proves that there's a lot of money washing around their " hard-up" public.

Being promised is not necessarily the same as actually receiving but still it is a huge amount of money.

Dod

[scrumpyjack]

Excuse me? You don't seem to realise that those of us in the higher tax bracket generally have large country houses that take a great deal more heating than some miserable hovel inhabited by the lower orders.

To be really fair the WFP should be based on the number of rooms in one's primary residence.

and take account of the size of the rooms. The indoor swimming pool is very expensive to heat to the temperature Mrs S likes so can I have a special allowance for that?

[Lootman]

Excuse me? You don't seem to realise that those of us in the higher tax bracket generally have large country houses that take a great deal more heating than some miserable hovel inhabited by the lower orders.

To be really fair the WFP should be based on the number of rooms in one's primary residence.

and take account of the size of the rooms. The indoor swimming pool is very expensive to heat to the temperature Mrs S likes so can I have a special allowance for that?

Or worse. If you own two homes then you only get one WFP, even though you might need to keep both of them heated.

My wife is not yet old enough to get her WFP but, when that time happens, perhaps we should put one of our properties solely in her name and the other solely in mine, so we can get our fair allocation of funds?

Meanwhile I just spent my WFP on a case of wine. That will warm me up as well.

[redsturgeon]

Excuse me? You don't seem to realise that those of us in the higher tax bracket generally have large country houses that take a great deal more heating than some miserable hovel inhabited by the lower orders.

To be really fair the WFP should be based on the number of rooms in one's primary residence.

and take account of the size of the rooms. The indoor swimming pool is very expensive to heat to the temperature Mrs S likes so can I have a special allowance for that?

Or worse. If you own two homes then you only get one WFP, even though you might need to keep both of them heated.

My wife is not yet old enough to get her WFP but, when that time happens, perhaps we should put one of our properties solely in her name and the other solely in mine, so we can get our fair allocation of funds?

Meanwhile I just spent my WFP on a case of wine. That will warm me up as well.

Do you actually take your state pension Looty?

I am due mine next year but thinking of deferring since I don't need it.

John

[Lootman]

Do you actually take your state pension Looty?

I am due mine next year but thinking of deferring since I don't need it.

John

I deferred it (and my other two pensions). You get an extra 6% for each year you defer. That is not a great deal but, like you, I don't need it, nor the tax event it causes.

You can compute a breakeven point where deferring starts to pull ahead of taking it at the standard age. It is your normal retirement age plus about 16 years, so 82 maybe. Only after then are you ahead by deferring, other things being equal, which of course they may not be.

So one factor as with any retirement income planning is how long you plan to live.

[redsturgeon]

Do you actually take your state pension Looty?

I am due mine next year but thinking of deferring since I don't need it.

John

I deferred it (and my other two pensions). You get an extra 6% for each year you defer. That is not a great deal but, like you, I don't need it, nor the tax event it causes.

You can compute a breakeven point where deferring starts to pull ahead of taking it at the standard age. It is your normal retirement age plus about 16 years, so 82 maybe. Only after then are you ahead by deferring, other things being equal, which of course they may not be.

So one factor as with any retirement income planning is how long you plan to live.

As long a possible.

[XFool]

So one factor as with any retirement income planning is how long you plan to live.

Perhaps even the only significant factor when it comes to pensions? But that's another axe for the grinding.