The new respectable dress code

[Nimrod103]

I find that way of dressing quite repulsive. It reminds me of some giggolo, or group of seedy businessmen at a strip club. Why can't normal people wear a tie. Or at least button up.

What is wrong with not wearing a tie or not wearing a vest. I haven't worn the latter since I was about 10 years old and very rarely wear a tie these days. A suit with a smart shirt which is unbuttoned at the collar is fine, is it not? Were these guys wearing their shirts unbuttoned down to the waist or something?

I had never heard of the vest on display convention before, so asked my wife. Her reply was "Never heard of that. Must be some weird public school convention". So fess up gents who are in favour of the vest on display - did you got to a posh school?

I thought I had made my views obvious, but just for clarity, I have no problem with people wearing or not wearing a tie. I have no problem with people wearing an open neck shirt with the top button undone.

However, I do have a problem with men having two buttons undone (as they were on Newsnight last night) if it exposes their sweaty flesh down towards their nipples. It just looks slovenly and frankly seedy. A possible way around this exposure is to wear a vest/white T shirt underneath.

My experience of working in the USA is that many men do wear T's, for the practical reason that it potentially hides under arm sweat patches. In the UK I would have thought that most sensible men with a normal response to the cold would want to wear a T shirt at this time of year. Wearing an extra layer enables me to turn my central heating thermostat down and save on gas.

[AleisterCrowley]

Certainly in a work environment , top button only undone. Possibly two on a hot commuter train home (do people still commute?!) or a casual shirt on a beach.
Three-button polo shirts though should only have the bottom button fastened. Two looks odd, and all three is sick and deranged, and should be illegal.

[Nimrod103]

Three-button polo shirts though should only have the bottom button fastened. Two looks odd, and all three is sick and deranged, and should be illegal.

Brings to mind Sid the Sexist in Viz.

[Stompa]

Having viewed the gentlemen in question (presumably Alan Milburn & Dr Andrew Murrison) on Newsnight:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m ... t-23112021

at around 6:25 I think, I have to conclude that this thread is a wind up. Is it April 1st already?

[swill453]

However, I do have a problem with men having two buttons undone (as they were on Newsnight last night) if it exposes their sweaty flesh down towards their nipples. It just looks slovenly and frankly seedy. A possible way around this exposure is to wear a vest/white T shirt underneath.

I had a quick scan of Newsnight on iPlayer. Alan Milburn was the only male on the programme who had 2 buttons undone. And since he hasn't been an MP for more than a decade, and seemed to be 'Zooming' in from home, perhaps it's excusable. There was very little sweaty flesh on display anyway, certainly not enough to tell whether he was wearing a vest or not.

EDIT: I see someone else has been on the same quest...

Scott.

[bungeejumper]

I have to conclude that this thread is a wind up. Is it April 1st already?

How dare you, sir? How absolutely dare you? Nursey always told me that Mister Spanky Bottom would be paying me a visit if I ever displayed even a hint of male chest cleavage in public. Why, the thought of allowing anyone to suspect that I had actual skin under my Turnbull and Asser shirt was.... excuse me, I need to sit down, and quickly.

The OP is right in one respect, though. Wearing a T shirt under one's Tyrwhitts absorbs all the horrible perspiration and makes it possible to wear a shirt to the office for two or even three days at a time. Never mind the extra layer of insulation - just think of the lifetime saving in washing powder. Now that's how we save the planet.

BJ

[csearle]

I seem to work outside half the time pretty much all year. I wear a vest, a T-shirt, and an "electricians" T-shirt in winter. A small bit of exposed neck is visible. One aims not to repulse.

A suit, with or without tie, is impractical.

I do wear work shorts all year though. As a tradesman one had to flaunt the perceived assets at one's disposal. C.

[AleisterCrowley]

If you wear a T-shirt under a work shirt (which is fine) it should never be visible. It should be a V-neck type.
Crew neck Tee visible under a shirt looks very 'American garage worker at diner'....

[moorfield]

I'm going to wear a dress to the office tmorrow, and announce that my pronoun is "one".

That should keep a few people I've only met on Zoom guessing.

[servodude]

If you wear a T-shirt under a work shirt (which is fine) it should never be visible. It should be a V-neck type.
Crew neck Tee visible under a shirt looks very 'American garage worker at diner'....

Nah.. as long as they can't make out the offensive text through the shirt you should be fine

If you really want the "Joe at diner" look it needs to be a short sleeve shirt with sleeves shorter than those of the undershirt; mesh back cap optional.

Rarely have occasion to wear a tie these days - and the pocket squares are languishing sadly alongside them

- sd

[AleisterCrowley]

If you wear a T-shirt under a work shirt (which is fine) it should never be visible. It should be a V-neck type.
Crew neck Tee visible under a shirt looks very 'American garage worker at diner'....

Nah.. as long as they can't make out the offensive text through the shirt you should be fine

- sd

I'm guessing Cradle of Filth T-shirts wouldn't be a good office look

[servodude]

If you wear a T-shirt under a work shirt (which is fine) it should never be visible. It should be a V-neck type.
Crew neck Tee visible under a shirt looks very 'American garage worker at diner'....

Nah.. as long as they can't make out the offensive text through the shirt you should be fine

- sd

I'm guessing Cradle of Filth T-shirts wouldn't be a good office look

Depends if you work in IT or not

"It's not literally a cradle of filth."

"Ooh, no! That would be horrible!"

[AleisterCrowley]

Richmond- get back in your room

[Clitheroekid]

For me the problem isn't so much not wearing a tie (I've not worn one on an everyday basis for years) but not wearing a tie with a suit.

If you're very slim, well-built and preferably young you can get away with it. But if, like all too many of us, you are a tad corpulent, the sight of a beer belly bulging out of a suit is pretty repellent. A tie serves a useful purpose in that situation, in that it breaks up the vast expanse of shirt front.

So my considered opinion is that a suit almost always looks better with a tie, and if you're overweight you simply should not wear a suit without a tie at all.

They haven't worn ties in America for a VERY long time*. Especially in the hot bits, like California. Jacket without tie has been the business fashion there for as long as I've been visiting. Around 30 years. Long before it was common here.

* As AC says, except for weddings and court appearances

That may well be the case in many areas of business, but a tie is still very much de rigueur in the big law firms - https://www.shearman.com/People

It's the same on this side of the Atlantic - https://www.linklaters.com/en/find-a-lawyer

(And for the avoidance of doubt the `court appearances' exception doesn't work, as the large majority of these lawyers will never have set foot inside a courtroom).

[GrahamPlatt]

[vrdiver]

I wonder how this thread would have developed had we been discussing appropriate dress codes and acceptable flesh reveal limits for women? Is anyone brave enough to "regender" their post to see how it comes across?

VRD

[TUK020]

She's showing too much cleavage!

[brightncheerful]

Origin of tie, according to Wikipedia: "The necktie that spread from Europe traces back to Croatian mercenaries serving in France during the Thirty Years' War (1618–1648). These mercenaries from the Military Frontier, wearing their traditional small, knotted neckerchiefs, aroused the interest of the Parisians. Because of the difference between the Croatian word for Croats, Hrvati, and the French word, Croates, the garment gained the name cravat (cravate in French). The boy-king Louis XIV began wearing a lace cravat around 1646, when he was seven, and set the fashion for French nobility. This new article of clothing started a fashion craze in Europe; both men and women wore pieces of fabric around their necks. From its introduction by the French king, men wore lace cravats, or jabots, that took a large amount of time and effort to arrange. These cravats were often tied in place by cravat strings, arranged neatly and tied in a bow."

I used to loathe wearing a tie until my early 20s when someone showed me how to do a Double Windsor knot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOLUCYb-Xsk.

Now whenever I have to wear a tie at least it is tied 'properly'.

For some years until the novelty wore off I used a tie as a belt for my trousers.

[XFool]

I do wear work shorts all year though. As a tradesman one had to flaunt the perceived assets at one's disposal. C.

Men in shorts! One of life's horrors that mummy failed to warn me about...