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Battle Stations - Wine

A virtual pub for off topic, light hearted pub related banter and discussion. No trainers
servodude
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Re: Battle Stations - Wine

#461069

Postby servodude » November 26th, 2021, 10:04 am

AF62 wrote:
servodude wrote:
AF62 wrote:it would have been trivially simple for the business owner to have investigated what was already required and which import agents could provide the service for them


Yeah but in quite a lot of cases the best/only solutions would have been f*ck off, give up, or cheat


No, the best solution would have been to investigate what they needed to do on day one, rather than floundering around and moaning.

servodude wrote:
Who is to blame when the goalposts move? (EDIT: I'd suggest the guy who decided to move them!)

-sd


"blame" - blame is irrelevant. The goalposts *have* moved; deal with it or quit. Moaning because you didn't prepare is just pathetic.


I agree. But quitting by sticking out for as long as possible until you no longer can isn't necessarily a bad thing to do.
As has been pointed out the goal posts were very moveable feasts
I wouldn't purport to tell them their problems were irrelevant

-sd

AF62
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Re: Battle Stations - Wine

#461073

Postby AF62 » November 26th, 2021, 10:09 am

servodude wrote:
AF62 wrote:
servodude wrote:
Yeah but in quite a lot of cases the best/only solutions would have been f*ck off, give up, or cheat


No, the best solution would have been to investigate what they needed to do on day one, rather than floundering around and moaning.

servodude wrote:
Who is to blame when the goalposts move? (EDIT: I'd suggest the guy who decided to move them!)

-sd


"blame" - blame is irrelevant. The goalposts *have* moved; deal with it or quit. Moaning because you didn't prepare is just pathetic.


I agree. But quitting by sticking out for as long as possible until you no longer can isn't necessarily a bad thing to do.
As has been pointed out the goal posts were very moveable feasts
I wouldn't purport to tell them their problems were irrelevant

-sd


But they were not "sticking out for as long as possible until you no longer can" - they were intending to continue in business, but had made no plans for the change which they knew was coming on that day.

The goal posts for the import of alcohol was not a moveable feast, but set in stone and had been set in stone for long before the changes came in.

And of course the problem is not irrelevant, but seeking to blame someone for those problems is irrelevant in actually dealing with them so you can stay in business.

servodude
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Re: Battle Stations - Wine

#461077

Postby servodude » November 26th, 2021, 10:16 am

AF62 wrote:
servodude wrote:
AF62 wrote:
No, the best solution would have been to investigate what they needed to do on day one, rather than floundering around and moaning.



"blame" - blame is irrelevant. The goalposts *have* moved; deal with it or quit. Moaning because you didn't prepare is just pathetic.


I agree. But quitting by sticking out for as long as possible until you no longer can isn't necessarily a bad thing to do.
As has been pointed out the goal posts were very moveable feasts
I wouldn't purport to tell them their problems were irrelevant

-sd


But they were not "sticking out for as long as possible until you no longer can" - they were intending to continue in business, but had made no plans for the change which they knew was coming on that day.

The goal posts for the import of alcohol was not a moveable feast, but set in stone and had been set in stone for long before the changes came in.

And of course the problem is not irrelevant, but seeking to blame someone for those problems is irrelevant in actually dealing with them so you can stay in business.


No argument at all with that.
I was just pointing out I have some sympathy and can understand why they might have ended up trading as they had.
Not easy to give up a business because some twunt elsewhere decides to change your operating conditions

-sd

AF62
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Re: Battle Stations - Wine

#461079

Postby AF62 » November 26th, 2021, 10:23 am

servodude wrote:
AF62 wrote:
servodude wrote:
I agree. But quitting by sticking out for as long as possible until you no longer can isn't necessarily a bad thing to do.
As has been pointed out the goal posts were very moveable feasts
I wouldn't purport to tell them their problems were irrelevant

-sd


But they were not "sticking out for as long as possible until you no longer can" - they were intending to continue in business, but had made no plans for the change which they knew was coming on that day.

The goal posts for the import of alcohol was not a moveable feast, but set in stone and had been set in stone for long before the changes came in.

And of course the problem is not irrelevant, but seeking to blame someone for those problems is irrelevant in actually dealing with them so you can stay in business.


No argument at all with that.
I was just pointing out I have some sympathy and can understand why they might have ended up trading as they had.
Not easy to give up a business because some twunt elsewhere decides to change your operating conditions

-sd


I have sympathy for business people where the rules change because of some arbitrary decision made by government.

I have sympathy for business people where their business is no longer viable because of the change in rules because of some arbitrary decision made by government.

I have sympathy for business people where their business is less profitable because of the extra costs brought in by those change in rules because of some arbitrary decision made by government.

I have no sympathy for business people where they make no effort to understand and prepare for those changes, but instead take to Twitter moaning about those changes - it just makes them look silly.

Hallucigenia
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Re: Battle Stations - Wine

#461111

Postby Hallucigenia » November 26th, 2021, 11:37 am

AF62 wrote:Not for these goods. It was *very* clear for months prior that from the first day that full customs declarations would be required for imports of alcohol from the EU.

As such declarations were already required for import of wine from outside the EU prior to Brexit, using the same systems and the same forms that they would need to use, it would have been trivially simple for the business owner to have investigated what was already required and which import agents could provide the service for them.

Instead they waited until the 16 January and decided to have a go themselves despite not knowing what they were doing. And then moaned.


Do you think a specialist wine importer has no experience of importing from Australia, the US, Chile?

He's been doing this stuff since you were in short trousers, as you will see from other threads he had been preparing well before the date (thanks to all the false dawns), but as a small business you are at the mercy of eg logistics companies just throwing in the towel at the complexity of it all.

Might I ask what experience you have of importing from outside the EU?

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Battle Stations - Wine

#461131

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » November 26th, 2021, 12:15 pm

servodude wrote:
AsleepInYorkshire wrote:
Mike4 wrote:OMG I bought three or four bottles each of Talisker, Bunnahabhain and Ardbeg this time last year for about £30 each, WAY cheaper than normal price. I was planning to replenish the stock this December, am I gonna be out of luck??

Mike

Sell, sell, sell :lol:

AiY


Perhaps .... but hold any Port Ellen for a bit

Lock your doors :lol:

AiY

servodude
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Re: Battle Stations - Wine

#461138

Postby servodude » November 26th, 2021, 12:27 pm

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:
servodude wrote:
AsleepInYorkshire wrote:Mike

Sell, sell, sell :lol:

AiY


Perhaps .... but hold any Port Ellen for a bit

Lock your doors :lol:

AiY


Good recommendation; with what Mike's got in his cupboard he could well forget. He could sink if the wind picked up

-sd

AF62
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Re: Battle Stations - Wine

#461188

Postby AF62 » November 26th, 2021, 2:49 pm

Hallucigenia wrote:
AF62 wrote:Not for these goods. It was *very* clear for months prior that from the first day that full customs declarations would be required for imports of alcohol from the EU.

As such declarations were already required for import of wine from outside the EU prior to Brexit, using the same systems and the same forms that they would need to use, it would have been trivially simple for the business owner to have investigated what was already required and which import agents could provide the service for them.

Instead they waited until the 16 January and decided to have a go themselves despite not knowing what they were doing. And then moaned.


Do you think a specialist wine importer has no experience of importing from Australia, the US, Chile?

He's been doing this stuff since you were in short trousers, as you will see from other threads he had been preparing well before the date (thanks to all the false dawns), but as a small business you are at the mercy of eg logistics companies just throwing in the towel at the complexity of it all.


Well clearly he doesn't have such experience when his Tweets express surprise that "A CHIEF declaration (C88) has up to 65 boxes to complete." - actually it is 54 boxes, but then I would expect every importer should know that (or at least employ an import agent who know that).

And then goes on further with "Some of these are very simple like excise number and parties involved on the import. So basic stuff. Others however are very vague codes." yes "Vague codes" - that really sounds like someone who knows what they are doing.

Hallucigenia wrote:Might I ask what experience you have of importing from outside the EU?


Back in the 1980's (when this wine importer was in short trousers) I was dealing with the import of wine, beer, and spirits from all over the world, including Europe and since that was before the UK was in the Single Market then a C88 was required for all such imports. Next question.


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