Seventies or eighties?

[servodude]

Now there's a coincidence. I'm catching up with Johnnie Walker's 'Sounds of The 70's' as I type. What a decade But then I'm old enough to have been there at the time. Your teens are the most formative years so it's all down to when you were born. My parents thought the 60s & 70's music was rubbish and I feel the same for modern music*.

* anything after 1990

Today's music (since 2000) is the same 4 chords and autotuned vocals.

Really? This must be one of the most badly informed posts on TLF.

For a big part of stuff in "the charts" it's probably true
- but with the demise of "the charts" (from the days of the hit parade dominating the airwaves) there has been a more equitable sharing of what passes for airplay these days and that seems to have lead to a huge diversity of simultaneous styles being around. I regularly hear stuff from the kids that surprises me with how recent it is!

-sd

[MrFoolish]

Now there's a coincidence. I'm catching up with Johnnie Walker's 'Sounds of The 70's' as I type. What a decade But then I'm old enough to have been there at the time. Your teens are the most formative years so it's all down to when you were born. My parents thought the 60s & 70's music was rubbish and I feel the same for modern music*.

* anything after 1990

Today's music (since 2000) is the same 4 chords and autotuned vocals.

Really? This must be one of the most badly informed posts on TLF.

Check out music producer and educator, Rick Beato, on youtube. He desperately wants to be positive about da kids today, but when he runs through the latest charts... well he despairs (mostly).

Anyway, my own ears tell me the same thing. But feel free to shatter my misconceptions with links to two or three good recent chart hits if you like.

[Lootman]

Seventies or eighties?

An interesting question! For me, definitely seventies, though mid to late sixties runs it close.

As ever, I suspect nearly everyone will be influenced by their teenage years, but I can't help thinking that is less true these days.

When the only sources of music were Top of the Pops, the Light Programme, Radio Luxembourg or a pirate station, then later Radio One, everyone's focus was on a relatively narrow range of songs.

Now, there is so much scope for hearing such a wide range of music, I can't believe that a decade such as the noughties or 2010s will be marked by a limitied range of iconic "singles" as used to be the case.

Or am I just getting old?

Partly getting old but I tend to believe that most of the original stuff - that which defined the transition from pop to rock - happened between 1965 and 1975. There is little after 1975 that I find non-derivative, other than an honourable mention for Radiohead.

Of course SD will be along to lecture us about how all modern music derives from black music anyway. But that really misses the point here.

[Mike4]

Today's music (since 2000) is the same 4 chords and autotuned vocals.

Really? This must be one of the most badly informed posts on TLF.

Check out music producer and educator, Rick Beato, on youtube. He desperately wants to be positive about da kids today, but when he runs through the latest charts... well he despairs (mostly).

Anyway, my own ears tell me the same thing. But feel free to shatter my misconceptions with links to two or three good recent chart hits if you like.

Ah, now you move the goalposts.

Yes I agree with you if you mean chart music. But that's not what you said.

[servodude]

Today's music (since 2000) is the same 4 chords and autotuned vocals.

Really? This must be one of the most badly informed posts on TLF.

Check out music producer and educator, Rick Beato, on youtube. He desperately wants to be positive about da kids today, but when he runs through the latest charts... well he despairs (mostly).

Anyway, my own ears tell me the same thing. But feel free to shatter my misconceptions with links to two or three good recent chart hits if you like.

On those videos I think he only really looks at the top 10 downloads on a given "chart" thought?
- which is a pretty niche sample of tunes; particularly in the "pop" genre where it's dominated by the tosh that IS precisely as you describe... if they get as far as using a m6 chord
- in general though there's a lot more music about, it's very diverse and a lot of it is as good as the stuff we grew up with - probably doesn't get played on rotation the same way though

His video on using secondary dominants and borrowing chords from the parrallel minor should be recommended viewing for anyone with more than a passing interest in how popular music works

Anyways I'll have to vote other because I can't decide if London Calling is a 70's or 80's album

- sd

[CliffEdge]

Freddy and the Dreamers. Aahh, those were the days.

[nimnarb]

Early 60’s to late 70’s for me but doesn’t it very much depend on your age at the time? I was not a fan mostly of late 80’s and certainly not the 90’s and quite frankly can’t remember much of it anyway as was working mostly as opposed to watching top of the pops plus going into record stores and being able to actually play a 45 was great fun at the time. By the way, good time as ever to ask but this old codger keeps hearing them say the naughties. What exactly is that? The naughties for me was definitely the 60’s. Burn the bra, smell the flowers, sex and Rock n roll, go hip in the round house(smelly weird place mostly with hippies passed out on the floor and floating bubbles on the screen)
Carnaby St, Mary Quant, Twiggy, Playboy Club, Kings Rd, La Valbon night club, and the British Invasion of the best music ever. Oh and seeing Ella, Buddy Rich, and quite a few others at Ronnie Scotts. Even saw Cliffy at the Paladium plus had an audition for a new musical called “Hair”. Failed miserably but the producers daughter and I got on famously and we did go on top of the pops and see Jimmy Hendrix and others live.
I digress, but yes late 60’s through to the 70’s extraordinary music and what a time I had plus for me the music is timeless.

[MrFoolish]

Really? This must be one of the most badly informed posts on TLF.

Check out music producer and educator, Rick Beato, on youtube. He desperately wants to be positive about da kids today, but when he runs through the latest charts... well he despairs (mostly).

Anyway, my own ears tell me the same thing. But feel free to shatter my misconceptions with links to two or three good recent chart hits if you like.

Ah, now you move the goalposts.

Yes I agree with you if you mean chart music. But that's not what you said.

Well if the music is good it will rise up the charts Shirley?

But ok, link me two or three really good songs that you like from the last 10 years. They don't have to be chart hits. Something catchy and memorable. The sort of songs you might put on repeat.

[Mike4]

Check out music producer and educator, Rick Beato, on youtube. He desperately wants to be positive about da kids today, but when he runs through the latest charts... well he despairs (mostly).

Anyway, my own ears tell me the same thing. But feel free to shatter my misconceptions with links to two or three good recent chart hits if you like.

Ah, now you move the goalposts.

Yes I agree with you if you mean chart music. But that's not what you said.

Well if the music is good it will rise up the charts Shirley?

But ok, link me two or three really good songs that you like from the last 10 years. They don't have to be chart hits. Something catchy and memorable. The sort of songs you might put on repeat.

Once again you move the goalposts. Let's look again at your statement I disagreed with:

"Today's music (since 2000) is the same 4 chords and autotuned vocals."

It would be trivially easy to nominate a piece of music with more than four chords written since 2000, or without auto-tuned vocals. Do you really need me to?

How about the album "Blackstar" by David Bowie - a chart topping album of seven songs released in 2016 and I bet all the songs on it contain more than four chords. I haven't checked though.

[MrFoolish]

Ah, now you move the goalposts.

Yes I agree with you if you mean chart music. But that's not what you said.

Well if the music is good it will rise up the charts Shirley?

But ok, link me two or three really good songs that you like from the last 10 years. They don't have to be chart hits. Something catchy and memorable. The sort of songs you might put on repeat.

Once again you move the goalposts. Let's look again at your statement I disagreed with:

"Today's music (since 2000) is the same 4 chords and autotuned vocals."

It would be trivially easy to nominate a piece of music with more than four chords written since 2000, or without auto-tuned vocals. Do you really need me to?

How about the album "Blackstar" by David Bowie - a chart topping album of seven songs released in 2016 and I bet all the songs on it contain more than four chords. I haven't checked though.

Yeah ok, I'm sure it isn't all limited chord structures and autotune, but these things do dominate today's music.

I also agree Blackstar was good (or at least I enjoy the two hits I'm familiar with). But Bowie was born in 1957! I was hoping for something decent from the younger generations.

To be fair, you could have mentioned Adele. She definitely has a talent. But then she also tends to be rather samey, IMHO.

[servodude]

Well if the music is good it will rise up the charts Shirley?

But ok, link me two or three really good songs that you like from the last 10 years. They don't have to be chart hits. Something catchy and memorable. The sort of songs you might put on repeat.

Once again you move the goalposts. Let's look again at your statement I disagreed with:

"Today's music (since 2000) is the same 4 chords and autotuned vocals."

It would be trivially easy to nominate a piece of music with more than four chords written since 2000, or without auto-tuned vocals. Do you really need me to?

How about the album "Blackstar" by David Bowie - a chart topping album of seven songs released in 2016 and I bet all the songs on it contain more than four chords. I haven't checked though.

Yeah ok, I'm sure it isn't all limited chord structures and autotune, but these things do dominate today's music.

I also agree Blackstar was good (or at least I enjoy the two hits I'm familiar with). But Bowie was born in 1957! I was hoping for something decent from the younger generations.

To be fair, you could have mentioned Adele. She definitely has a talent. But then she also tends to be rather samey, IMHO.

My younger daughter (14) is mad for Bowie (like buying Low on vinyl then saving up for a turntable mad) after we went to an exhibition on him - her plays in the car on yesterday's 5hr drive were mostly him and "the Front Bottoms" (from New Jersey)
- older kid was putting on Lovejoy (who are worth a listen) but she would have had Declan McKenna's "British Bombs" on repeat if we'd let her (TBH I can see why)
Where was I?... er I think I was saying there's good stuff out there and not really anything like "charts" in the way there was

Throughout pop history the "charts" have been mostly full of lowest common denominator crud - some gets re-evaluated later on and we decide it's got actual merit
- but the stuff that stands the test of time often gets overlooked to begin with (except by John Peel RIP)
- and the kids and those who have survived are still putting it out in good amounts

My personal gripe is with stuff produced as if the loudness wars were still a thing! Which is even more ubiquitous than auto-fn-tune (disclaimer: I have a hardware autotune/vocoder that gets broken out for karaoke but mostly to sound like a robot)
- if everything is mixed within 6dB I get exhausted listening to it

-sd

[pje16]

My younger daughter (14) is mad for Bowie (like buying Low on vinyl then saving up for a turntable mad) after we went to an exhibition on him - her plays in the car on yesterday's 5hr drive were mostly him and "the Front Bottoms" (from New Jersey)
-sd

Glad to see you are bringing up properly
I watched the story of Ziggy last night on Amazon Prime (stumbled upon it quite by accident)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/video/detail/B07H1D1CHT
so am now giving another listen to one his finest
(a nice trip down a happy memory lane)

Micky Mouse has just grown up a cow!

[MrFoolish]

My personal gripe is with stuff produced as if the loudness wars were still a thing! Which is even more ubiquitous than auto-fn-tune (disclaimer: I have a hardware autotune/vocoder that gets broken out for karaoke but mostly to sound like a robot)
- if everything is mixed within 6dB I get exhausted listening to it

-sd

Yes, I hate the loudness wars too. I'm a big fan of Pink Floyd (for many reasons) and they had fantastic dynamic range on their music. Think I heard Alan Parsons saying on Dark Side of the Moon they used no compression on the drums whatsoever. But The Wall sounds the best sonically to me... listen to Hey You on a decent hi-fi... it is brilliant.

[servodude]

My younger daughter (14) is mad for Bowie (like buying Low on vinyl then saving up for a turntable mad) after we went to an exhibition on him - her plays in the car on yesterday's 5hr drive were mostly him and "the Front Bottoms" (from New Jersey)
-sd

Glad to see you are bringing up properly
I watched the story of Ziggy last night on Amazon Prime (stumbled upon it quite by accident)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/video/detail/B07H1D1CHT
so am now giving another listen to one his finest
(a nice trip down a happy memory lane)

Micky Mouse has just grown up a cow!

We'll give it a watch (not sure if it's one we've seen already)
She's also picked up some of my interest in music gear and how it works - so we've watched the YouTube videos where Tony Visconti goes through how some of it was recorded and mastered
- that stuff is pure gold and would have given our lecturers conniptions back in the day ("you're recording it WITH the effects? no, no.. it'll never work .. Get to the back of the class")

-sd

[kiloran]

Freddy and the Dreamers. Aahh, those were the days.

No, that was Mary Hopkin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QptZ8tYZAkE

--kiloran

[servodude]

My personal gripe is with stuff produced as if the loudness wars were still a thing! Which is even more ubiquitous than auto-fn-tune (disclaimer: I have a hardware autotune/vocoder that gets broken out for karaoke but mostly to sound like a robot)
- if everything is mixed within 6dB I get exhausted listening to it

-sd

Yes, I hate the loudness wars too. I'm a big fan of Pink Floyd (for many reasons) and they had fantastic dynamic range on their music. Think I heard Alan Parsons saying on Dark Side of the Moon they used no compression on the drums whatsoever. But The Wall sounds the best sonically to me... listen to Hey You on a decent hi-fi... it is brilliant.

Oooohhh yes!

That's what I'm talking about - having a range, and using it! (The aforementioned "Front Bottoms" are listed as a folk punk band - a category that used to contain (only?) the Violent Femmes ... who are stripped back masters at using dynamics and tempo (which I guess you need as an acoustic 3 piece)

Similarly it's weird to see kids react to live music as if it's magic; just because it gets LOUDER WHEN IT NEEDS TO

-sd

[pje16]

My younger daughter (14) is mad for Bowie (like buying Low on vinyl then saving up for a turntable mad) after we went to an exhibition on him - her plays in the car on yesterday's 5hr drive were mostly him and "the Front Bottoms" (from New Jersey)
-sd

Glad to see you are bringing up her properly
I watched the story of Ziggy last night on Amazon Prime (stumbled upon it quite by accident)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/video/detail/B07H1D1CHT
so am now giving another listen to one his finest
(a nice trip down a happy memory lane)

Micky Mouse has just grown up a cow!

We'll give it a watch (not sure if it's one we've seen already)
She's also picked up some of my interest in music gear and how it works - so we've watched the YouTube videos where Tony Visconti goes through how some of it was recorded and mastered
- that stuff is pure gold and would have given our lecturers conniptions back in the day ("you're recording it WITH the effects? no, no.. it'll never work .. Get to the back of the class")

-sd

thanks for the Visconti ref I'll give that a go at lunchtime
I hope you haven't seen Ziggy on Prime before (I hadn't, but have seen a few BBC shows about it over the years) it is well worth a watch

[GoSeigen]

Check out music producer and educator, Rick Beato, on youtube. He desperately wants to be positive about da kids today, but when he runs through the latest charts... well he despairs (mostly).

Anyway, my own ears tell me the same thing. But feel free to shatter my misconceptions with links to two or three good recent chart hits if you like.

Ah, now you move the goalposts.

Yes I agree with you if you mean chart music. But that's not what you said.

Well if the music is good it will rise up the charts Shirley?

But ok, link me two or three really good songs that you like from the last 10 years. They don't have to be chart hits. Something catchy and memorable. The sort of songs you might put on repeat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wROpY5i-f_Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCZVL_8D048
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adLGHcj_fmA

GS

[servodude]

Ah, now you move the goalposts.

Yes I agree with you if you mean chart music. But that's not what you said.

Well if the music is good it will rise up the charts Shirley?

But ok, link me two or three really good songs that you like from the last 10 years. They don't have to be chart hits. Something catchy and memorable. The sort of songs you might put on repeat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wROpY5i-f_Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCZVL_8D048
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adLGHcj_fmA

GS

I think it's great that, on checking those links, I don't think I know any of them (ain't got speakers here so I'll listen later) - looking forward to it though

"Catchy and memorable" can lead a song to be a victim of its own success
- "Come on Eileen" for example! Brilliant song, excellent performance but reduced in most of the collective consciousness to a stream of indistinct drunken vowel sounds.

For songs of the past 10 years I'd probably lump "Uptown Funk", "Happy" and "Can't Stop the Feeling" in the same boat ( to choose one genre)
- the kind of songs that will "actually work" at any wedding reception from the moment they're released (ah go on you know they're really well done!)
- even after they've gone through the too popular to be cool cycle a few times

But then ... I really don't get how the kids appear to have resurrected Toto's Africa in to something that doesn't stink of embarrassment

-sd

[redsturgeon]

For songs of the past 10 years I'd probably lump "Uptown Funk", "Happy" and "Can't Stop the Feeling" in the same boat ( to choose one genre)
- the kind of songs that will "actually work" at any wedding reception from the moment they're released (ah go on you know they're really well done!)
- even after they've gone through the too popular to be cool cycle a few times

-sd

I'd have to include "Get Lucky" in that short list.

Widening out then, catchy and memorable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKL4X0PZz7M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcrbM1l_BoI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-M1AtrxztU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RBzsjga73s

John