Decolonising Mathematics

[ReformedCharacter]

Another example of the modern world that I do not understand; according to today's Telegraph, probably paywalled:

The mathematics curriculum at a leading university (Durham) is being “decolonised”, with professors urged to write biographies of theorists, question if they are mostly white or male, and consider the cultural origins of numbers.

If the mathematicians are “almost entirely (or even completely) white and/or male, ask yourself why this is,” the guide states.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/09/decolonise-maths-subtracting-white-male-viewpoint-urges-durham/

RC

[88V8]

'If the mathematicians are “almost entirely (or even completely) white and/or male, ask yourself why this is.....'

No doubt it's intended to lead them to the objective conclusion that whites and males had more time to ponder mathematical conundrums because they had black &/or female helpers to do their laundry

I'll get my coat...

V8

[scrumpyjack]

Another example of the modern world that I do not understand; according to today's Telegraph, probably paywalled:

The mathematics curriculum at a leading university (Durham) is being “decolonised”, with professors urged to write biographies of theorists, question if they are mostly white or male, and consider the cultural origins of numbers.

If the mathematicians are “almost entirely (or even completely) white and/or male, ask yourself why this is,” the guide states.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/09/decolonise-maths-subtracting-white-male-viewpoint-urges-durham/

RC

It won't be leading for long if it focusses on such idiocy! Quite pathetic. Anyway the Chinese and the Egyptians were way ahead of the west in science many centuries before us.

[AsleepInYorkshire]

Another example of the modern world that I do not understand; according to today's Telegraph, probably paywalled:

The mathematics curriculum at a leading university (Durham) is being “decolonised”, with professors urged to write biographies of theorists, question if they are mostly white or male, and consider the cultural origins of numbers.

If the mathematicians are “almost entirely (or even completely) white and/or male, ask yourself why this is,” the guide states.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/09/decolonise-maths-subtracting-white-male-viewpoint-urges-durham/

RC

Ten Famous Indian Mathematicians

I was under the misguided impression that many mathematicians came from Greece many moons ago and India. I suppose we can have English or US mathematicians too

AiY(D)

[Newroad]

I suppose it depends on your perspective, AiY.

In rough terms

Europe wasn't European so much as Mediterranean back in the day, e.g. the Ancient Greeks but also the Great Library in Alexandria etc.

We then had the so-called Dark Ages in Europe whilst knowledge was stored and developed mainly in the Middle East (and, interestingly, in Ireland which has often been somewhat counter-cyclical). Perhaps most notably was by Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi who also codified the use of numerals - in particular "zero" - which was invented earlier in India in the form we currently might recognise it.

Subsequently, this knowledge and its expansion was reimported into Europe, e.g. al-Khwarizmi's work was translation into Latin leading into algebra etc as we know it

We then ran with it for a fair while, leading into the Age of Enlightenment etc

The above is no doubt over-simplified, but you get the drift.

Regards, Newroad

[Mike4]

If the mathematicians are “almost entirely (or even completely) white and/or male, ask yourself why this is,” the guide states.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/09/decolonise-maths-subtracting-white-male-viewpoint-urges-durham/

RC

It IS a curious question though, isn't it? I notice there are often particular nationalities or races that dominate occupations or subjects. Why is it Polish people are good at building and plumbing? Chinese at building electronics? Black people good at jazz music but not so much Bach and choral? Is it the same reason as white males are good at maths? I don't know, no matter how much I think about it.

Also there is the innate ability/enjoy doing it debate. If you are naturally good at something you probably enjoy doing it so do it more, and get even better at it. Or is it that when you enjoy doing something (e.g. maths or jazz) you do it more so get really good at it, which looks to an outsider like natural ability?

[XFool]

If the mathematicians are “almost entirely (or even completely) white and/or male, ask yourself why this is,” the guide states.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/09/decolonise-maths-subtracting-white-male-viewpoint-urges-durham/

It IS a curious question though, isn't it? I notice there are often particular nationalities or races that dominate occupations or subjects. Why is it Polish people are good at building and plumbing? Chinese at building electronics? Black people good at jazz music but not so much Bach and choral? Is it the same reason as white males are good at maths? I don't know, no matter how much I think about it.

But is it not a probable mistake to assume any set of people are inherently "good at" anything just on the evidence that quite a lot of them are involved in it (i.e. are "good" at it!)?

In the past, all train drivers were men. Does this prove men are inherently better than driving trains than women? Well, in a way, "Yes" - because only men got to be able to learn how to drive trains...

Also there is the innate ability/enjoy doing it debate. If you are naturally good at something you probably enjoy doing it so do it more, and get even better at it. Or is it that when you enjoy doing something (e.g. maths or jazz) you do it more so get really good at it, which looks to an outsider like natural ability?

Yes, seems to make sense to me. But then not everyone in society gets the chance to pursue what they might otherwise like to pursue - particularly in the past, with more rigidly defined roles and expectations etc. Then again, this itself could 'force' some groups of people into particular roles in society that are the only ones open to them.

Are women inherently better at folding linen than men? Possibly...


P.S. For some reason this has brought Florence Nightingale to mind - 'The lady (nurse!) with the lamp'. Actually an early statistician (and much more)...

[UncleEbenezer]

Durham is (or at least historically was) a respectable institution. This story is almost certainly spun to mislead and provoke.

Speaking as a long-lapsed mathematician, I can say with confidence that while Europe has produced many great mathematicians, it has been far from exclusive. Through most of Europe's history we've interacted with the Arabs, and both sides of the med have developed the subject. The Age of Exploration produced a lot of maths - for example, the techniques used to navigate the open oceans - but also brought lots interaction with more distant cultures, notably in Asia.

That's a eurocentric point of view, because maths as we practice it today in our universities is indeed a European creation, and was predominantly European from the rise of the universities through to the rise of the US in the past century. But it's built on a global community. And a community of mathematicians, who are interested in thinking, not in politics, and are naturally inclusive of others who share our interests.

It's no accident that it was the purest of pure mathematicians (and someone who today would be labelled ultra-elitist) G H Hardy who took the time and trouble to read unsolicited submissions from a colonial nobody, and recognised Ramanujan's genius. After which it was entirely natural that Hardy should pull strings to bring Ramanujan to Cambridge, and that Ramanujan should come. Was Ramanujan's contribution to maths European or Indian? No, it was global: the best minds working in the preeminent community of the era.

[Lootman]

I notice there are often particular nationalities or races that dominate occupations or subjects. Why is it Polish people are good at building and plumbing? Chinese at building electronics? Black people good at jazz music but not so much Bach and choral? Is it the same reason as white males are good at maths? I don't know, no matter how much I think about it.

Historically a fair amount of antisemitism has been rationalised by claims that Jewish people outperform at a wide range of (often well paying) occupations. Asians have been criticised for out-performing other non-whites (and in many cases, whites) in various lucrative fields of endeavour, leading to Asians being called "The Model Minority", much to the annoyance of blacks and hispanics.

Personally I think it is an outrage that there are so few whites playing professional basketball in the US. Is basketball racist?

Such thinking is a dangerous slippery slope.

[scotview]

The mathematics curriculum at a leading university (Durham) is being “decolonised”, with professors urged to write biographies of theorists
RC

Interesting,

What would be the reaction of these professors if they were required to teach classes comprising mathematics students based primarily on inclusion, ethnicity, gender, rather on ability.

Now, consider their reaction if their salaries and pensions were directly correlated to the quality of examination results and research papers produced by such classes of students.

[XFool]

Durham is (or at least historically was) a respectable institution. This story is almost certainly spun to mislead and provoke.

Well, it is a story from The Telegraph.

It's no accident that it was the purest of pure mathematicians (and someone who today would be labelled ultra-elitist) G H Hardy...

Who, ironically, believed his subject had no practical use whatsoever. But that was before the Internet and the security of remote financial transactions etc.

[SalvorHardin]

From what I've seen of this nonsense in America, it's mostly driven by Academics from the Mickey Mouse departments, such as Grievance Studies. Though I suspect that some third rate maths lecturers might latch onto it as a career move.

A huge amount of maths comes from India and North Africa, and not just stuff like the concept of zero or the numerals (aka Arabic Numbers).

India's Srinivasa Ramanujan is arguably the greatest mathematician of the last 200 years. He was so prolific and ground breaking that researchers are still discovering new applications for his work (such as applying the Ramanujan Theta Function to String Theory).

There's an excellent film about Ramanujan, "The Man Who Knew Infinity", starring Dev Patel as Ramanujan and Jeremy Irons as Hardy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Knew_Infinity

[ReformedCharacter]

From what I've seen of this nonsense in America, it's mostly driven by Academics from the Mickey Mouse departments, such as Grievance Studies. Though I suspect that some third rate maths lecturers might latch onto it as a career move.

A huge amount of maths comes from India and North Africa, and not just stuff like the concept of zero or the numerals (aka Arabic Numbers).

India's Srinivasa Ramanujan is arguably the greatest mathematician of the last 200 years. He was so prolific and ground breaking that researchers are still discovering new applications for his work (such as applying the Ramanujan Theta Function to String Theory).

There's an excellent film about Ramanujan, "The Man Who Knew Infinity", starring Dev Patel as Ramanujan and Jeremy Irons as Hardy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Knew_Infinity

Grievance Studies

RC

[Dod101]

Durham is (or at least historically was) a respectable institution. This story is almost certainly spun to mislead and provoke.

Well, it is a story from The Telegraph.

It's no accident that it was the purest of pure mathematicians (and someone who today would be labelled ultra-elitist) G H Hardy...

Who, ironically, believed his subject had no practical use whatsoever. But that was before the Internet and the security of remote financial transactions etc.

Pure maths has no practical use whatever in itself but of course in the end it is from there that pretty well all applied maths is derived. It did not need the development of the internet to make pure maths useful.

Dod

[absolutezero]

The mathematics curriculum at a leading university (Durham) is being “decolonised”, with professors urged to write biographies of theorists, question if they are mostly white or male, and consider the cultural origins of numbers.

If the mathematicians are “almost entirely (or even completely) white and/or male, ask yourself why this is,” the guide states.

What?

[XFool]

It's no accident that it was the purest of pure mathematicians (and someone who today would be labelled ultra-elitist) G H Hardy...

Who, ironically, believed his subject had no practical use whatsoever. But that was before the Internet and the security of remote financial transactions etc.

Pure maths has no practical use whatever in itself but of course in the end it is from there that pretty well all applied maths is derived. It did not need the development of the internet to make pure maths useful.

Obviously. But I had more specific fields/topics in mind.

[tjh290633]

Pythagoras rules OK.

TJH

Or Euclid or Archimedes.

[Bminusrob]

Pure maths has no practical use whatever in itself but of course in the end it is from there that pretty well all applied maths is derived. It did not need the development of the internet to make pure maths useful.

Dod

I read mathematics at university many years ago, and I well remember a lecture early in my time studying where the lecturer explained that there are many things of mathematical interest which have no practical application. The top three he mentioned were:

1) Large prime numbers
2) (Discreet) cosine transforms (as opposed to sine transforms which are the basis of Fourier analysis)
3) Space filling curves

Well, I have news for the lecturer. If you wait long enough, all aspects of pure mathematics will find a use. Large prime numbers are the basis of all the security systems we use for banking; discreet cosine transforms are the basis of MPEG, without which we wouldn't have digital television, DVDs and streaming video, and I have even seen a paper showing how space filling curves have anapplication in coloured image handling.

[Lootman]

Pure maths has no practical use whatever in itself but of course in the end it is from there that pretty well all applied maths is derived. It did not need the development of the internet to make pure maths useful.

I read mathematics at university many years ago, and I well remember a lecture early in my time studying where the lecturer explained that there are many things of mathematical interest which have no practical application. The top three he mentioned were:

1) Large prime numbers
2) (Discreet) cosine transforms (as opposed to sine transforms which are the basis of Fourier analysis)
3) Space filling curves

Well, I have news for the lecturer. If you wait long enough, all aspects of pure mathematics will find a use. Large prime numbers are the basis of all the security systems we use for banking; discreet cosine transforms are the basis of MPEG, without which we wouldn't have digital television, DVDs and streaming video, and I have even seen a paper showing how space filling curves have an application in coloured image handling.

Isn't that exactly what Dod said? That pure maths tells us nothing about the real world, but that the properly understood principles of it underlie a lot of applied maths?

Trying to remember my university philosophy classes from nearly 50 years ago, I seem to recall that it was Bertrand Russell and Alfred Whitehead in Principia Mathematica, written more than 100 years ago, who demonstrated that the rules of pure maths could be derived from the rules of formal logic.

In other words the "truths" of pure maths, like the "truths" of formal logic, teach us nothing about the real world. Rather they are true a priori, because they represent a convention rather than anything empirical.

Which is not to say that they are useless by any means. Just true necessarily and definitionally. Or as my professor used to be fond of saying: "You can study it sitting in an armchair" - no need for any tests or experiments. Pure maths is a thought experiment.

[SimonS]

The mathematics curriculum at a leading university (Durham) is being “decolonised”,/quote]

RC

And approaching this in a logical fashion I deduced that since the colon is a method of getting the [expletive deleted] out, this was a method of keeping it in. It seems the latest ploy in the racism industry is to attribute the difficulty of finding information about the advances made by any foreign influences in the past io racism, rather than sheer ignorance or lack of interest

As an experiment I asked a number of friends who were or what contributions were associated with Maxwell, Faraday, Kelvin, Rutherford or Tesla. The only name generally recognised was Tesla who made cars. Whereas we all know that Tesla made musical instruments (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbubH1FovFc).