PO Scandal

[cinelli]

There is a Panorama programme about this today at 8pm on BBC1. It's not clear how much new material will be shown.

Cinelli

[pje16]

just watched it
I had forgotten how scandalous it was
Watching Paula Vennells squirm in front of the parliamentary committee was the best part

[Itsallaguess]

just watched it

I had forgotten how scandalous it was

Watching Paula Vennells squirm in front of the parliamentary committee was the best part

Available on iPlayer here for 11 months - https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0016t20/panorama-the-post-office-scandal

A shocking tale, with human costs many of those to blame will never know or appreciate.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[XFool]

I sometimes feel Panorama programmes nowadays are a bit superficial but I thought this was a very effective summary, in the time available, of what is a complex matter.



One small technical gripe: Using a red typeface (Post Office!) for on screen titles. Red is not a good colour for detailed text in film/TV.

[terminal7]

The Panorama programme barely scratches the surface of this massive scandal. A veritable timebomb brought to us by those wonderful PFI merchants in the late 1990s. As I mentioned back in February, the Private Eye has been writing about this scandal for years (see the link for a much more in-depth analysis with a full list of the usual suspects) - yet the programme gives the impression that little has surfaced until the last few years. It is surprising that the main stream media outlets have fought shy of this scandal. I always wondered if a super injunction had been used by some of the main parties. Of course - by definition - we will never know.

T7

[XFool]

The Panorama programme barely scratches the surface of this massive scandal. A veritable timebomb brought to us by those wonderful PFI merchants in the late 1990s. As I mentioned back in February, the Private Eye has been writing about this scandal for years (see the link for a much more in-depth analysis with a full list of the usual suspects) - yet the programme gives the impression that little has surfaced until the last few years. It is surprising that the main stream media outlets have fought shy of this scandal.

I don't know exactly what you have in mind by "mainstream media", but the BBC has not fought shy of it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/m000jf7j

[Redmires]

The Panorama programme barely scratches the surface of this massive scandal. A veritable timebomb brought to us by those wonderful PFI merchants in the late 1990s. As I mentioned back in February, the Private Eye has been writing about this scandal for years (see the link for a much more in-depth analysis with a full list of the usual suspects) - yet the programme gives the impression that little has surfaced until the last few years. It is surprising that the main stream media outlets have fought shy of this scandal.

I don't know exactly what you have in mind by "mainstream media", but the BBC has not fought shy of it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/m000jf7j

It's no accident that the government want to see the back of the BBC (and C4) when they produce damning programmes like this (File on 4, Panorama and Dispatches etc). Much better for governments of all persuasions to hide behind TV channels producing nothing but mind numbing 'entertainment'. And yes, ostrich anus eating politicians, I'm referring to you !

[servodude]

And yes, ostrich anus eating politicians, I'm referring to you !

Oh! for a simpler time when that would have been purely metaphorical

[Sorcery]

The Panorama programme barely scratches the surface of this massive scandal. A veritable timebomb brought to us by those wonderful PFI merchants in the late 1990s. As I mentioned back in February, the Private Eye has been writing about this scandal for years (see the link for a much more in-depth analysis with a full list of the usual suspects) - yet the programme gives the impression that little has surfaced until the last few years. It is surprising that the main stream media outlets have fought shy of this scandal.

I don't know exactly what you have in mind by "mainstream media", but the BBC has not fought shy of it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/m000jf7j

It's no accident that the government want to see the back of the BBC (and C4) when they produce damning programmes like this (File on 4, Panorama and Dispatches etc). Much better for governments of all persuasions to hide behind TV channels producing nothing but mind numbing 'entertainment'. And yes, ostrich anus eating politicians, I'm referring to you !

Oh God, please help me, I have stumbled into an alternative reality. This seems something I have been doing a lot of lately. Should I see a Doctor? Or will you God do?

[Leothebear]

Oh God, please help me, I have stumbled into an alternative reality. This seems something I have been doing a lot of lately. Should I see a Doctor? Or will you God do?


Perhaps you could explain, to the less perceptive of us, what you're on about?

[XFool]

Oh God, please help me, I have stumbled into an alternative reality. This seems something I have been doing a lot of lately. Should I see a Doctor? Or will you God do?

Calm down dear! It's nothing serious - you are simply suffering from an acute case of Post Reality Syndrome. There's a lot of it about these days...

[Sorcery]

Oh God, please help me, I have stumbled into an alternative reality. This seems something I have been doing a lot of lately. Should I see a Doctor? Or will you God do?


Perhaps you could explain, to the less perceptive of us, what you're on about?

I think I was pretty surprised by everything I quoted being presented as fact. The PO was privatised yes. The Blair government which followed did nothing to change this. The PO created the scandal without any outside help from government. Government did not aid a cover up of the scandal.
I would dispute the government wants to privatise the BBC, it would like as I understand it to scrap the BBC licence fee which unfairly makes one pay for something that might not be used.

[Redmires]

The PO was privatised yes. The Blair government which followed did nothing to change this. The PO created the scandal without any outside help from government. Government did not aid a cover up of the scandal. I would dispute the government wants to privatise the BBC, it would like as I understand it to scrap the BBC licence fee which unfairly makes one pay for something that might not be used.

Er..... no. Royal Mail was privatised, not the Post Office. The Post Office remains government owned.

The Post Office is owned by the government, through the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) and UK Government
Investments (UKGI), however, the Post Office Ltd Board has responsibility for the operations of the Post Office.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliam ... P-7550.pdf

The programme provided documents (heavily redacted in parts) to show that government officials attended meetings where the Post Office admitted to bugs and errors within the Horizon system. They were well aware of the facts and it was indeed a cover up. Did you watch it by any chance ?

[Sorcery]

The PO was privatised yes. The Blair government which followed did nothing to change this. The PO created the scandal without any outside help from government. Government did not aid a cover up of the scandal. I would dispute the government wants to privatise the BBC, it would like as I understand it to scrap the BBC licence fee which unfairly makes one pay for something that might not be used.

Er..... no. Royal Mail was privatised, not the Post Office. The Post Office remains government owned.

The Post Office is owned by the government, through the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) and UK Government
Investments (UKGI), however, the Post Office Ltd Board has responsibility for the operations of the Post Office.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliam ... P-7550.pdf

The programme provided documents (heavily redacted in parts) to show that government officials attended meetings where the Post Office admitted to bugs and errors within the Horizon system. They were well aware of the facts and it was indeed a cover up. Did you watch it by any chance ?

I'm afraid I did not watch it, so may have missed some salient fact, like the Post office and Royal Mail being separate entities. My objection was to the politicization of the scandal. Are you aware of which party was involved during 10 years of the ongoing scandal? And which party is now clearing up the mess? It was imv a total screw up by the post office board. When the accusations were flying around in the late 90s, I was working in a software developer capacity and said to my colleagues "that sounds like buggy software" not criminality. If I could guess that at the time as did the paper Computer Weekly later, the post office board should have shown a little more interest in the possibility.

[SimonS]

The PO was privatised yes. The Blair government which followed did nothing to change this. The PO created the scandal without any outside help from government. Government did not aid a cover up of the scandal. I would dispute the government wants to privatise the BBC, it would like as I understand it to scrap the BBC licence fee which unfairly makes one pay for something that might not be used.

Er..... no. Royal Mail was privatised, not the Post Office. The Post Office remains government owned.

The Post Office is owned by the government, through the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) and UK Government
Investments (UKGI), however, the Post Office Ltd Board has responsibility for the operations of the Post Office.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliam ... P-7550.pdf

The programme provided documents (heavily redacted in parts) to show that government officials attended meetings where the Post Office admitted to bugs and errors within the Horizon system. They were well aware of the facts and it was indeed a cover up. Did you watch it by any chance ?

I'm afraid I did not watch it, so may have missed some salient fact, like the Post office and Royal Mail being separate entities. My objection was to the politicization of the scandal. Are you aware of which party was involved during 10 years of the ongoing scandal? And which party is now clearing up the mess? It was imv a total screw up by the post office board. When the accusations were flying around in the late 90s, I was working in a software developer capacity and said to my colleagues "that sounds like buggy software" not criminality. If I could guess that at the time as did the paper Computer Weekly later, the post office board should have shown a little more interest in the possibility.

Of course, one can philosophically reflect that " there should be laws" about organisations hiding the misdoings of its managers, something which seems prevalent these days and that the absence of such laws means the Government does have a hand, even if its a dead hand, in the matter.

After all, the danger and damage that such silence represents was, was recognised and codified some 2000 years ago "Thou shalt no bear false witness", witness also included the silence that codemns.

[XFool]

Post Office and Fujitsu to face inquiry over Horizon scandal

BBC News

The public inquiry into the IT failings that led to the wrongful prosecution of hundreds of Post Office branch managers starts hearing evidence from other key witnesses this week.

"This new stage of the inquiry aims to uncover what was behind one of the most widespread miscarriages of justice in UK legal history.

No-one at the Post Office or Fujitsu has yet been held accountable.

The chair of the inquiry said he was "determined to expose the truth"."

[pje16]

From the linked article above
"The statutory inquiry should "ensure something like this can never happen again" they added."

more like
The statutory inquiry should ensure the guilty get long sentences in prison
They ruined so many people's lives

[Leothebear]

Hmm another few years to procrastinate. Will these people ever see justice?

[Redmires]

Er... No. But rest assured that lessons will be learnt.

[doolally]

Er... No. But rest assured that lessons will be learnt.

Not quite. "Lessons will be learnt" is an obligatory stock phrase used in situations like this.
Whether lessons will actually be learnt in practice is questionable.
doolally