Autistic

[simsqu]

I went to the dump this morning and had a sobering experience.

In March this year I got a phone call from someone asking rather desperately if I would tutor her daughter at GCSE Maths: the exam was coming up in a few months and she was falling behind (pretty common story at this time of year). She got my name from the parents of another student I tutor at A-Level.

“I’m sure I can fit her in. Tell me a bit about your daughter’s needs.”

She told me a little, and then said rather cautiously, “she’s also autistic”

“I’m sure we can accommodate that” I said innocently, my entire knowledge of autism coming from The Big bang Theory.

Huh

Five minutes into our first session, we were having a blazing argument. She was using a method to solve quadratic equations by using a graph and I very foolishly said, you don’t need to do all that, there is an easier method.

She then basically treated me like a complete idiot who clearly knew nothing about mathematics. Now, I may not be Andrew Wiles, but I’ve got a maths degree and mainly teach A-Level maths, so I think I know my way around the GCSE syllabus, but it made no difference. She had been taught a method and that was that.

Anyway, I barely made it out of the first session alive, and seriously thought about giving up, but I had a long chat with the mother, explaining what had happened and how her daughter had behaved and how difficult it was going to be to make any progress, how impossible it had been to get through to her, how completely intransigent and single minded she had been to anything outside the specific rules she had been taught, and I really didn’t think there was much point…

“Welcome to my world” she said with a huge sigh.

So I persevered. After a couple more sessions we kind of developed a way to work together, and I developed methods of carefully introducing new ideas and concepts to her, and I learnt how to identify and tiptoe round the rabbit holes and landmines strewn across her mental plain. Eventually, she realised that I was not a complete idiot, and we actually started to enjoy working together, and she learned stuff.

We’re waiting for the results, but I think the exams went well, and her expected grade had gone up. “You’re the first tutor she had who actually stuck with her, and she respected,” said her mum. “Before you, she left a trail of bloodied corpses in her wake.”

I don’t doubt it, but I can honestly say I learnt a huge amount from her, and a lot about autism, or so I thought.


Where was I? Oh yes, the dump


So I turn up at the dump, on foot, with a couple of carrier bags of stuff. First guy checks me in (you have to book, even on foot).

“Just go through there mate”, he says, and I walk up to an entrance with a bit of tape across, which I duck under and continue into the dump.

At which point another dump guy comes up to me, pointing and screaming:

“WHAT ARE YOU DOING?? YOU CAN’T COME THROUGH THERE!!! THIS IS FOR VEHICLES!!! YOU MUST GO BACK. GO BACK!!”

I couldn’t believe this guy. “Your colleague just told me to come through here. I’m not going back, don’t be so ridiculous!” What an utter jobsworth

“GO BACK GO BACK!! THIS IS AN UNAUTHORISED ENTRANCE FOR PEDESTRIANS!!!!!!!!!”

“For God’s sake, what’s the problem? No way am I going back, it’s just a piece of tape, there’s no cars around, and who the HELL do you think you are…”

…at which point another dump guy approached, tapped the jobsworth on the shoulder, whispered to him, then approached me and said, sotto voce, “he’s autistic, it’s fine, just carry on, I’ll take care of him”

“Oh, I’m so sorry, I did not realise…”

“It’s fine” he said and gave me a weary look I’d last seen in the eyes of my autistic student’s mother.

I went about my business, with thoughts of my student flooding back to me. I should have noticed the signs, shouldn’t I?

I’d just got some socks to recycle and couldn’t find the clothing skip. As I was looking round, I saw the autistic guy staring at me with what can only be described as a look of incandescent fury mixed with crystalline, pure, concentrated hatred. I tried to make amends:

“Oh hello, I’m sure you can help me. Could you direct me to the clothing skip?”

“Give me the bag, I’ll do it.”

“No, no it’s fine, it’s no trouble, I can do it...”

“No you can’t” (huge sigh) and off he went with the bag. He then turned back, pointed at me and said, “AND DON’T DO IT AGAIN”, as if he had been addressing Ian Brady.

Seething, unrequited anger because someone had not followed the rules, even though all I’d done was duck under a flimsy bit of tape. But there is no light and shade. It’s all black and white, and why shouldn’t it be? A rule is a rule.

I really know nothing about autism, other than my own meagre experiences, but perhaps we should all try to be a little more thoughtful before jumping to the conclusion that we are all the same, but then again, what do I know. I can’t even operate the tin opener.

[ReformedCharacter]

Sometimes I think autism and the like are just a great excuse for being an obnoxious c*** to someone when ever you feel like it.

I'd guess you haven't spent much time with people who have some of the more severe effects of autism (around a third of people with autism are non-verbal).

RC

[kiloran]

I've never knowingly had to deal with anyone who is autistic but it sounds rather similar to those with mental health problems and it's...... challenging. And rewarding. Logic just goes completely out the window and you can't fight it, just work with it.
Well done!

--kiloran

[Gersemi]

I have worked with a couple of people that I thought might have a mild form of autism. They were very dogmatic and could only do things a particular way. It was also hard to end a conversation as they kept repeating things . . . mind you so did I . . .

[NotSure]

....She told me a little, and then said rather cautiously, “she’s also autistic”

“I’m sure we can accommodate that” I said innocently, my entire knowledge of autism coming from The Big bang Theory.

Huh

Five minutes into our first session, we were having a blazing argument. She was using a method to solve quadratic equations by using a graph and I very foolishly said, you don’t need to do all that, there is an easier method.

She then basically treated me like a complete idiot who clearly knew nothing about mathematics. Now, I may not be Andrew Wiles, but I’ve got a maths degree and mainly teach A-Level maths, so I think I know my way around the GCSE syllabus, but it made no difference. She had been taught a method and that was that.......

I do not envy you, but I have sympathy for those with autism. An example I was given was to consider a room that is familiar to yourself, maybe a kitchen. If you slightly rearrange the stools around the breakfast bar, to 'neurotypical' people, you now have the same kitchen with rearranged stools. However to an autistic person, you now have a completely different room altogether. It is simply not the same kitchen. It can be quite a condition!

[UncleEbenezer]

“WHAT ARE YOU DOING?? YOU CAN’T COME THROUGH THERE!!! THIS IS FOR VEHICLES!!! YOU MUST GO BACK. GO BACK!!”

I couldn’t believe this guy. “Your colleague just told me to come through here. I’m not going back, don’t be so ridiculous!” What an utter jobsworth

“GO BACK GO BACK!! THIS IS AN UNAUTHORISED ENTRANCE FOR PEDESTRIANS!!!!!!!!!”

“For God’s sake, what’s the problem? No way am I going back, it’s just a piece of tape, there’s no cars around, and who the HELL do you think you are…”

Big fuss over going through a "wrong" gate? Now what story could that be?

Aha. Must've been a pleb.

[swill453]

You were lucky. Our tip (recycling centre), despite being 50 metres from the high street, doesn't allow pedestrians at all, for safety reasons. You have to go by car.

Scott.

[Mike4]

The scariest thing about simqu's post is recognising this trait ever so slightly present in myself.

Yes a rule is a rule and MUST be followed or the sky will fall in, obviously.

I blame that book "Chicken Licken" which according to my Mum, had to be read to me end-to-end every bedtime for about two years. After a while I got wise to her trick of turning over two pages at a time and would make her go back and start again...

[MrFoolish]

Being a member of the Awkward Squad is generally a requirement for working at a tip. The guy being being autistic is probably neither here nor there.

[robbelg]

I think the majority of politicians must be autistic.

Rob

[bluedonkey]

I think the majority of politicians must be autistic.

Rob

Don't think so. Egomaniacal narcissists maybe, though.

Autistic people are often attracted to jobs with very defined and narrow tasks, such as train driver or book-keeper.

[Nimrod103]

I think the majority of politicians must be autistic.

Rob

Don't think so. Egomaniacal narcissists maybe, though.

Autistic people are often attracted to jobs with very defined and narrow tasks, such as train driver or book-keeper.

I come across autistic people often (usually boys/young men) in the heritage steam railway fraternity, where it is my hobby and I volunteer. Railways attract them for various reasons. I have no training in dealing with mental health, so I can only talk from my own experiences. There is a wide range from the highly skilled (and often short fused) to the barely literate and incapable. It is difficult to generalize, but a common trait seems to be that they all will do exactly what comes into their head at any moment, and all other considerations (even safety) take a secondary place. They are usually so bound up with the importance and correctness of their own World even to the point of them being very rude, that it leads them to be difficult to work with.

I don't understand the condition. Is it something that has only recently appeared? I don't remember it being a phenomenon when I was growing up in the 60's.

[ReformedCharacter]

I don't understand the condition. Is it something that has only recently appeared? I don't remember it being a phenomenon when I was growing up in the 60's.

Apparently not:

Although the number of children diagnosed with autism has steadily increased over the last few years, this is not because more children develop autism now than before

https://www.medicinenet.com/why_is_autism_increasing_dramatically/article.htm

RC

[stevensfo]

I went to the dump this morning and had a sobering experience.

In March this year I got a phone call from someone asking rather desperately if I would tutor her daughter at GCSE Maths: the exam was coming up in a few months and she was falling behind (pretty common story at this time of year). She got my name from the parents of another student I tutor at A-Level.

“I’m sure I can fit her in. Tell me a bit about your daughter’s needs.”

She told me a little, and then said rather cautiously, “she’s also autistic”

“I’m sure we can accommodate that” I said innocently, my entire knowledge of autism coming from The Big bang Theory.

Huh

Five minutes into our first session, we were having a blazing argument. She was using a method to solve quadratic equations by using a graph and I very foolishly said, you don’t need to do all that, there is an easier method.

She then basically treated me like a complete idiot who clearly knew nothing about mathematics. Now, I may not be Andrew Wiles, but I’ve got a maths degree and mainly teach A-Level maths, so I think I know my way around the GCSE syllabus, but it made no difference. She had been taught a method and that was that.

Anyway, I barely made it out of the first session alive, and seriously thought about giving up, but I had a long chat with the mother, explaining what had happened and how her daughter had behaved and how difficult it was going to be to make any progress, how impossible it had been to get through to her, how completely intransigent and single minded she had been to anything outside the specific rules she had been taught, and I really didn’t think there was much point…

“Welcome to my world” she said with a huge sigh.

So I persevered. After a couple more sessions we kind of developed a way to work together, and I developed methods of carefully introducing new ideas and concepts to her, and I learnt how to identify and tiptoe round the rabbit holes and landmines strewn across her mental plain. Eventually, she realised that I was not a complete idiot, and we actually started to enjoy working together, and she learned stuff.

We’re waiting for the results, but I think the exams went well, and her expected grade had gone up. “You’re the first tutor she had who actually stuck with her, and she respected,” said her mum. “Before you, she left a trail of bloodied corpses in her wake.”

I don’t doubt it, but I can honestly say I learnt a huge amount from her, and a lot about autism, or so I thought.


Where was I? Oh yes, the dump


So I turn up at the dump, on foot, with a couple of carrier bags of stuff. First guy checks me in (you have to book, even on foot).

“Just go through there mate”, he says, and I walk up to an entrance with a bit of tape across, which I duck under and continue into the dump.

At which point another dump guy comes up to me, pointing and screaming:

“WHAT ARE YOU DOING?? YOU CAN’T COME THROUGH THERE!!! THIS IS FOR VEHICLES!!! YOU MUST GO BACK. GO BACK!!”

I couldn’t believe this guy. “Your colleague just told me to come through here. I’m not going back, don’t be so ridiculous!” What an utter jobsworth

“GO BACK GO BACK!! THIS IS AN UNAUTHORISED ENTRANCE FOR PEDESTRIANS!!!!!!!!!”

“For God’s sake, what’s the problem? No way am I going back, it’s just a piece of tape, there’s no cars around, and who the HELL do you think you are…”

…at which point another dump guy approached, tapped the jobsworth on the shoulder, whispered to him, then approached me and said, sotto voce, “he’s autistic, it’s fine, just carry on, I’ll take care of him”

“Oh, I’m so sorry, I did not realise…”

“It’s fine” he said and gave me a weary look I’d last seen in the eyes of my autistic student’s mother.

I went about my business, with thoughts of my student flooding back to me. I should have noticed the signs, shouldn’t I?

I’d just got some socks to recycle and couldn’t find the clothing skip. As I was looking round, I saw the autistic guy staring at me with what can only be described as a look of incandescent fury mixed with crystalline, pure, concentrated hatred. I tried to make amends:

“Oh hello, I’m sure you can help me. Could you direct me to the clothing skip?”

“Give me the bag, I’ll do it.”

“No, no it’s fine, it’s no trouble, I can do it...”

“No you can’t” (huge sigh) and off he went with the bag. He then turned back, pointed at me and said, “AND DON’T DO IT AGAIN”, as if he had been addressing Ian Brady.

Seething, unrequited anger because someone had not followed the rules, even though all I’d done was duck under a flimsy bit of tape. But there is no light and shade. It’s all black and white, and why shouldn’t it be? A rule is a rule.

I really know nothing about autism, other than my own meagre experiences, but perhaps we should all try to be a little more thoughtful before jumping to the conclusion that we are all the same, but then again, what do I know. I can’t even operate the tin opener.

When I read your marvelous descriptions, I had a sense of deja-vu. Not to make light of autism or your amazing patience, but they did remind me of some teachers we had at school in the late 70s. Sticklers for rules and methods, no matter how petty. Even one teacher glaring at two of us and shouting "Don't do it again!" We were both about 11 and had no idea what we'd done.

Steve

[XFool]

I come across autistic people often (usually boys/young men) in the heritage steam railway fraternity, where it is my hobby and I volunteer. Railways attract them for various reasons. I have no training in dealing with mental health, so I can only talk from my own experiences.

Autism is not a mental health issue per se, rather it is classed as a developmental disorder. Though naturally it can be accompanied by such issues - as can anything - and could of course perhaps contribute to or exacerbate such issues.

I don't understand the condition. Is it something that has only recently appeared? I don't remember it being a phenomenon when I was growing up in the 60's.

Interestingly, from memory, I first heard of it when I was growing up in the 60s - likely via those Sunday Colour Supplements? The diagnosis (two separate strands) dates back to the 1930s. Before that, and in practical terms for later, it would likely have been classed as a form of mental disability.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_spectrum#History

It is only over relatively recent decades that it has gained widespread public recognition. The 1988 Hollywood film 'Rain Man' being one example that put the condition before the general public. There was also a 1987 BBC TV documentary 'The Foolish Wise Ones' which featured, among others, the young artist Stephen Wiltshire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Wiltshire

Both of the above examples were still in the tradition of what were then called "Idiot Savants". Researched in this country by Neil O'Connor at UCL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_O'Connor.

Very interesting but not typical of Autistic spectrum people, later studied more generally by, amongst others, Uta Frith: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uta_Frith

[ReformedCharacter]

There's evidence of autism heritability:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_autism

Autism was found to occur more often in families of physicists, engineers and scientists. 12.5% of the fathers and 21.2% of the grandfathers (both paternal and maternal) of children with autism were engineers, compared to 5% of the fathers and 2.5% of the grandfathers of children with other syndromes. Other studies have yielded similar results. Findings of this nature have led to the coinage of the term "geek syndrome"

RC

[oldapple]

I work in a primary school where a nine year old autistic boy showed me he could complete a Rubik's cube in less than two minutes. Very impressed - and a bit jealous. If my life depended on it, I still couldn't do it, not wired that way at all.

[Nimrod103]

I come across autistic people often (usually boys/young men) in the heritage steam railway fraternity, where it is my hobby and I volunteer. Railways attract them for various reasons. I have no training in dealing with mental health, so I can only talk from my own experiences.

Autism is not a mental health issue per se, rather it is classed as a developmental disorder. Though naturally it can be accompanied by such issues - as can anything - and could of course perhaps contribute to or exacerbate such issues.

I don't understand the condition. Is it something that has only recently appeared? I don't remember it being a phenomenon when I was growing up in the 60's.

Interestingly, from memory, I first heard of it when I was growing up in the 60s - likely via those Sunday Colour Supplements? The diagnosis (two separate strands) dates back to the 1930s. Before that, and in practical terms for later, it would likely have been classed as a form of mental disability.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_spectrum#History

It is only over relatively recent decades that it has gained widespread public recognition. The 1988 Hollywood film 'Rain Man' being one example that put the condition before the general public. There was also a 1987 BBC TV documentary 'The Foolish Wise Ones' which featured, among others, the young artist Stephen Wiltshire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Wiltshire

Both of the above examples were still in the tradition of what were then called "Idiot Savants". Researched in this country by Neil O'Connor at UCL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_O'Connor.

Very interesting but not typical of Autistic spectrum people, later studied more generally by, amongst others, Uta Frith: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uta_Frith

I'm not sure that all this talk of idiot savants and foolish wise ones really helps understanding the condition. It is a spectrum, and the oldest autistic man I knew was an excellent artist/characaturist. However, from a practical point of view, mostly I see autistic boys and young men who are incapable of understanding and following simple instructions, nor able to show common sense. In fact just getting eye contact is often difficult. Such people are very difficult to integrate into modern society which requires obedience and predictability as minimum standards.
I feel dreadfully sorry for parents of these people. They appear to be at their wits end in handling them.

[kempiejon]

I work in a primary school where a nine year old autistic boy showed me he could complete a Rubik's cube in less than two minutes. Very impressed - and a bit jealous. If my life depended on it, I still couldn't do it, not wired that way at all.

Pretty sure I could see a cube off in a couple of minutes my record was sub 50 seconds.
Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is a neurological and developmental disorder that affects how people interact with others, communicate, learn, and behave.
more here https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/ ... orders-asd

[XFool]

I don't understand the condition. Is it something that has only recently appeared? I don't remember it being a phenomenon when I was growing up in the 60's.

I'm not sure that all this talk of idiot savants and foolish wise ones really helps understanding the condition.

Perhaps I was not clear enough in my post. I was referring to the past and to the history and development of the diagnosis and understanding - also to the public awareness - of this topic. Specifically in answer to your post about just this. (As it seemed to me!)









Wherefore art thou, TomTom?